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Subject: Russia is our adversary? rss

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Robert Madison
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Why does this game list Russia as our adversary? Everyone knows Russia is our friend, as is North Korea. Our adversaries are Canada and the European Union!
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Mark
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I hear they’ve been thinking about changing the title to Mr. Dictator to reflect the changes in our political landscape.
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Matthew M
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Moved from Mr. President to the Religion Sex and Politics (RSP) forum. If you are unfamiliar with the moderation policies of RSP please review them here https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1741989/moderation-rsp

If you choose to actively avoid topics of religion, sex, and/or politics or do not want to read or participate in an unmoderated thread please Unsubscribe now.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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What game?
 
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Mike Stiles
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Zero to RSP in 2 posts!
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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windsagio wrote:
Zero to RSP in 2 posts!

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Alexandre Piquet
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whac3 wrote:
What game?


Mr. President
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Ken Dilloo
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Talossa wrote:
Why does this game list Russia as our adversary? Everyone knows Russia is our friend, as is North Korea. Our adversaries are Canada and the European Union!


True story. I’ve been thinking of a design that would be a sort of sequel to Twilight Struggle, although with different mechanics. I think the biggest hold-up, besides general laziness, is I have no idea how to deal with Trump. It’s like Cthulhu woke up and gave the Russian player both hands to play.
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bigloo33 wrote:
Talossa wrote:
Why does this game list Russia as our adversary? Everyone knows Russia is our friend, as is North Korea. Our adversaries are Canada and the European Union!


True story. I’ve been thinking of a design that would be a sort of sequel to Twilight Struggle, although with different mechanics. I think the biggest hold-up, besides general laziness, is I have no idea how to deal with Trump. It’s like Cthulhu woke up and gave the Russian player both hands to play.


Just make it a co-op game, and you're all set. thumbsup

My invoice for advisement services is in the mail.
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Ken Dilloo
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Yes! Mine will be the only co-op that is won before the game starts! Even an idiot can win!
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Greg Michealson
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Talossa wrote:
Why does this game list Russia as our adversary? Everyone knows Russia is our friend, as is North Korea. Our adversaries are Canada and the European Union!


With friends like Russia... !
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Kevin Salch
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This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.
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costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.

I think people acknowledging a total 180 in our international allegiances is okay.
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Greg Michealson
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dkearns wrote:
costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.

I think people acknowledging a total 180 in our international allegiances is okay.


It's true. We have a President that gets along better with the world's authoritarians than our own long standing allies. What's worse is his base thinks it's great.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.
If this was going to be a policy, this thread wouldn't be the low hanging fruit I think.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.


Not sure about that, but it should have come with a trigger warning, at least.
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Robert Madison
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If discussion about political games is banned, why allow BGG pages on political games in the first place?

Octavian wrote:
Moved from Mr. President to the Religion Sex and Politics (RSP) forum. If you are unfamiliar with the moderation policies of RSP please review them here https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1741989/moderation-rsp

If you choose to actively avoid topics of religion, sex, and/or politics or do not want to read or participate in an unmoderated thread please Unsubscribe now.
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Robert Madison
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costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.


There is no such thing as a Christian conservative. With the one exception of abortion, liberals take the Christian position on every issue while Republicans take the heathen position.
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Talossa wrote:
If discussion about political games is banned, why allow BGG pages on political games in the first place?
Discussion of political *games* is not banned. Having a political discussion about subjects that may be represented in the game, but not in the context of the game, is where it gets touchy. The OP, if you pretend it isn't a snarky shot at the adminsitration (even if justified), is about what? Changing the game for a new international paradigm? Shouldn't that kind of conversation have been started in a more productive manner?
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Robert Madison
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dkearns wrote:
costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.

I think people acknowledging a total 180 in our international allegiances is okay.


And more to the point of my original post, we're talking about a game where you get to play the POTUS. The game, evidently, has certain features built into it, like alliances and the national interest, which now, objectively, should not be built into it at all because we have a POTUS contemptuous of our alliances and who sees his own business interests, and perhaps Russia's, as the "national interest" in ways that horrify all of our actual allies and friends. How do you factor that into a game? And how do you factor in the obsequiousness of a political party that lets it happen?

You'd have to have a purely political set of victory conditions; if I win elections, I "win the game" regardless of what happens to my country or its people. That would be a very odd game and certainly not the game of Mr. President. We'll have to wait till 2020 to see if those victory conditions are realistic, assuming he is still in office.
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Robert Madison
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TheChin! wrote:
The OP, if you pretend it isn't a snarky shot at the adminsitration (even if justified), is about what? Changing the game for a new international paradigm? Shouldn't that kind of conversation have been started in a more productive manner?


How was the OP a "snarky shot"?
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Greg Michealson
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Talossa wrote:
costguy wrote:
This should have been deleted and the original posters warned.
There is no productive discussion here or even a tread hijack. This is just bad behavior.


There is no such thing as a Christian conservative. With the one exception of abortion, liberals take the Christian position on every issue while Republicans take the heathen position.


You're going to fit into RSP quite nicely.
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Talossa wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
The OP, if you pretend it isn't a snarky shot at the adminsitration (even if justified), is about what? Changing the game for a new international paradigm? Shouldn't that kind of conversation have been started in a more productive manner?


How was the OP a "snarky shot"?
Umm, because "everyone" doesn't know those countries are our allies? I mean, I think Trump is a Putin puppet, but even I wouldn't so oversimplify the whole situation like that and think it wasn't just pure sarcasm to make a political point.
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Talossa wrote:
And more to the point of my original post, we're talking about a game where you get to play the POTUS. The game, evidently, has certain features built into it, like alliances and the national interest, which now, objectively, should not be built into it at all because we have a POTUS contemptuous of our alliances and who sees his own business interests, and perhaps Russia's, as the "national interest" in ways that horrify all of our actual allies and friends. How do you factor that into a game? And how do you factor in the obsequiousness of a political party that lets it happen?

You'd have to have a purely political set of victory conditions; if I win elections, I "win the game" regardless of what happens to my country or its people. That would be a very odd game and certainly not the game of Mr. President. We'll have to wait till 2020 to see if those victory conditions are realistic, assuming he is still in office.
Since it is a game, based on certain snap shot of time in history, then revamping it for every new President would be the only way to satisfy your criteria. If there is no mechanism to treat enemies as allies and vice versa, then no you couldn't model your interpretation of this Administration. If there are mechanisms that cause you to make things worse by attempting those "strategies", then it would be a better simulation. Which circles back to your assumptions being betrayed in your OP that you think Trump thinks our Trade partners are enemies (in the security sense) and not rivals (in the economic sense) in the way that Trump and company see them. Right or wrong on Trump's part, yours is the oversimplification for commentary effect, not for real change of the game to allow Trump's tactics to play out.
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Talossa wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
The OP, if you pretend it isn't a snarky shot at the adminsitration (even if justified), is about what? Changing the game for a new international paradigm? Shouldn't that kind of conversation have been started in a more productive manner?


How was the OP a "snarky shot"?


It definitely had a sarcasting aire to it. I think few reading the OP came away with the idea that this was just suggestions for a change in the game rather than making a political point. If your intent was just to discuss the game itself, a better entry point might have been something similar to this:

Quote:
Should an update to the game be made to account for changes in US foreign relations? (title)

Given that the game is set in a general contemporary setting (rather than a certain year), and that we're currently fast closing in on Russia and China politically while quickly alienating our older allies, should a new version of the game be made where those entities switch place as our adversaries/allies?


Now, any discussion about a political game with have political undertones, but there's a difference between that political posts that happen to mention a game.
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