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http://thehill.com/homenews/media/395409-story-of-injured-wo...

Isn't our healthcare system here in the US just wonderful?
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There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services: something everyone may need someday, so let's just all pay for it together.
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Rachel Simmons
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toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!
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bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.
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toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.


The problem with this sort of policies is that they often come back to shoot you in the ass, even if your party closes ranks and covers each other.
 
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David Dearlove
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toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services: something everyone may need someday, so let's just all pay for it together.

Oh wait you could pay for all health services like that.
We started in 1948. 70 years ago.
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JasonJ0 wrote:

Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.

Don't think I don't know what you did there.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.


IIRC, there was a thread a year or two back about a case where someone hadn't paid for fire service.

(And, yes, I noticed too.)
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toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services: something everyone may need someday, so let's just all pay for it together.

Well that's just Commie talk!
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Pretender to the Throne of Alsace-Lorraine
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DavidDearlove wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services: something everyone may need someday, so let's just all pay for it together.

Oh wait you could pay for all health services like that.
We started in 1948. 70 years ago.


Baby steps.
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Mac Mcleod
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Dearlove wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.


IIRC, there was a thread a year or two back about a case where someone hadn't paid for fire service.

(And, yes, I noticed too.)


It shows up in low population areas.

I.e. fire service costs $XX,XXX per year to serve a small population YYY.

People feel oppressed if they are forced to pay for fire service. They may be unable to pay a share. Or they may be unable to pay a share because they got a new TV. Or they may gamble thinking their fire risk is really low. Or they may be philosophically opposed to paying for fire service.

So the deal is, The (YYY-O) pay $XX,XXX/(YYY-O)=$ZZZ per year to have fire service. Those who refuse to join the group save $ZZZ per year. If they have a fire, then the fire department doesn't help them except to save lives.

Without the lack of property protection, the freeloader problem gets bad and no one has fire service at all.

In high population areas, the risk of someone's fire spreading is too high so that model doesn't work. And also the high population means the cost per citizen is low ($ZZ per year) and the taxes are lost in all the other taxes you pay.
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David Dearlove
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maxo-texas wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.


IIRC, there was a thread a year or two back about a case where someone hadn't paid for fire service.

(And, yes, I noticed too.)


It shows up in low population areas.

I.e. fire service costs $XX,XXX per year to serve a small population YYY.

People feel oppressed if they are forced to pay for fire service. They may be unable to pay a share. Or they may be unable to pay a share because they got a new TV. Or they may gamble thinking their fire risk is really low. Or they may be philosophically opposed to paying for fire service.

So the deal is, The (YYY-O) pay $XX,XXX/(YYY-O)=$ZZZ per year to have fire service. Those who refuse to join the group save $ZZZ per year. If they have a fire, then the fire department doesn't help them except to save lives.

Without the lack of property protection, the freeloader problem gets bad and no one has fire service at all.

In high population areas, the risk of someone's fire spreading is too high so that model doesn't work. And also the high population means the cost per citizen is low ($ZZ per year) and the taxes are lost in all the other taxes you pay.

That's because in more sensible countries rural fire services are the same as urban fire services. They are roughly county wide here where a county has typically a much larger population than a US one. That means the tax base is OK.
We have retained firemen here in more rural areas but they are integrated with the full time teams. I used to work with one who was based in a suburb and he had just the same status when working as others of his rank when working.
Firefighters don't only deal with property fires they also deal with rescues and heath/forest fires. The idea that you can freeload is appalling. Properly progressive taxes means the poor pay what they can.
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toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services: something everyone may need someday, so let's just all pay for it together.
in Australia we have universal healthcare but the exception is the ambulance service. We have to pay separately for that through some type of optional ambulance cover. If you don’t have it an ambulance can be very costly. Various cohorts of less privileged people get free access though and this can result in lonely types feigning illness to get a lift to the hospital where it’s warm and they get a free cup of tea.
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
toku42 wrote:
bowen wrote:
toku42 wrote:
There's no reason ambulance services shouldn't be treated like fire services.

Exactly. We should make people pay for fire services too. Taxes are theft! FREEDUMB!!!


I am actually shocked that these Randian assholes that make up the "intellectual" wing of the GOP haven't called for privatizing the fire service. Seems like a natural move.


Well, there is a (literally) classic example for them to draw inspiration from... Perhaps a little too crass for them, though.


IIRC, there was a thread a year or two back about a case where someone hadn't paid for fire service.

(And, yes, I noticed too.)


It shows up in low population areas.

I.e. fire service costs $XX,XXX per year to serve a small population YYY.

People feel oppressed if they are forced to pay for fire service. They may be unable to pay a share. Or they may be unable to pay a share because they got a new TV. Or they may gamble thinking their fire risk is really low. Or they may be philosophically opposed to paying for fire service.

So the deal is, The (YYY-O) pay $XX,XXX/(YYY-O)=$ZZZ per year to have fire service. Those who refuse to join the group save $ZZZ per year. If they have a fire, then the fire department doesn't help them except to save lives.

Without the lack of property protection, the freeloader problem gets bad and no one has fire service at all.

In high population areas, the risk of someone's fire spreading is too high so that model doesn't work. And also the high population means the cost per citizen is low ($ZZ per year) and the taxes are lost in all the other taxes you pay.

That's because in more sensible countries rural fire services are the same as urban fire services. They are roughly county wide here where a county has typically a much larger population than a US one. That means the tax base is OK.
We have retained firemen here in more rural areas but they are integrated with the full time teams. I used to work with one who was based in a suburb and he had just the same status when working as others of his rank when working.
Firefighters don't only deal with property fires they also deal with rescues and heath/forest fires. The idea that you can freeload is appalling. Properly progressive taxes means the poor pay what they can.
outside of cities in Australia most fire services are volunteer. In Queensland, for example, the volunteer groups cover 93% of the state with nearly 40,000 volunteers. The area is so large and the population density is low so having conveniently located professional firefighters everywhere is too expensive to run.

You can just turn up to your local volunteer brigade and they’ll find a role for you. Fundraising to top up government grants is a must. It builds a great sense of community.
 
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Andy Holt
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DavidDearlove wrote:

That's because in more sensible countries rural fire services are the same as urban fire services.


That works in England - and probably the rest of the UK - because nowhere (not even in Northumberland or the Yorkshire Dales) is too far from a town. Couldn't see it working in (say) Texas where the nearest town may be more than 100 miles away.
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David Dearlove
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andyholt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

That's because in more sensible countries rural fire services are the same as urban fire services.


That works in England - and probably the rest of the UK - because nowhere (not even in Northumberland or the Yorkshire Dales) is too far from a town. Couldn't see it working in (say) Texas where the nearest town may be more than 100 miles away.

I didn't mean that the firefighters who put out rural fires necessarily come from cities. I meant that the organisation that the part and full time staff are in is the same and the force is organised to cover the whole county. So you can have a reserve and training and equipment purchases are cheaper. The part time fireman I knew was in a town and was based at a station also containing full-time firefighters.
London is all full time.
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:
andyholt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

That's because in more sensible countries rural fire services are the same as urban fire services.


That works in England - and probably the rest of the UK - because nowhere (not even in Northumberland or the Yorkshire Dales) is too far from a town. Couldn't see it working in (say) Texas where the nearest town may be more than 100 miles away.

I didn't mean that the firefighters who put out rural fires necessarily come from cities. I meant that the organisation that the part and full time staff are in is the same and the force is organised to cover the whole county. So you can have a reserve and training and equipment purchases are cheaper. The part time fireman I knew was in a town and was based at a station also containing full-time firefighters.
London is all full time.

Yep most of the villages have a retained staff (these are on-call firefighters who are paid an amount and are expected to be on call a certain number of hours per week).

I think that Peterborough where I live is unique. We have two full-time stations. We also have a volunteer fire service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_Volunteer_Fire_Br... which works pretty much the same as retained crew but they are unpaid. Even in their case they still report into the local fire service (and have a contract with them - so that they get shouts as well as the full-time stations).
 
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There are actually lots of rural areas that have no fire service.
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Ambulances are bullshit. I took a ride once, cost me $1,000 for a 15 min. drive to the hospital and a little bit of oxygen. That's literally all they did for me.

It's the kind of thing that turns a libertarian full-on communist.
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Ambulances are bullshit. I took a ride once, cost me $1,000 for a 15 min. drive to the hospital and a little bit of oxygen. That's literally all they did for me.

It's the kind of thing that turns a libertarian full-on communist.


least you didn'thave to pay to build the road too whistle
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Defending American healthcare makes no sense to me. The HRG for multiple trauma with no comorbidities is between 2 and 4 grand depending plus less than a 100 per day for post op ward stay. This is how much the NHS trust gets paid for this kind of treatment. In the US somehow it costs tens of thousands.

Healthcare and schooling is something that can work privately in principle but never does outside of certain elective procedures (like total knee replacement). When it comes to these two areas people have to be considered before profit.
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What's 4 chans health care system like in Kerkistan? Ironic if it's socialised with fascists all about corporations owning the state.
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growlley wrote:
What's 4 chans health care system like in Kerkistan? Ironic if it's socialised with fascists all about corporations owning the state.


Are you so petty that you have to spill over into other threads? Keep on topic please.

Private emergency and acute healthcare doesn't work because of the massive patient care/outcome vs profit issue.
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