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Cataclysm: A Second World War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarifying British LOC limits rss

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Jonathan Entner
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The Brits trace supply from London via a LOC. They can not trace it through South Africa due to the delay box, thus anything in the Mediterranean or Middle East must pass the length of the Med and is subject to blocking by an enemy. On the Pacific map, they must trace from London through the Med to Egypt to the Arabian Sea, and then to the Indian Ocean, and then to the final destination. This holds for supply, unit upgrade/deployment, intervention, and production.

Once allied to the US and co-belligerent ("friendly"), they may also trace from Washington DC or California? 4.3 simply says that the LOC traces from a production site, I infer friendly since it can only be traced via friendly land areas and doesn't specifically limit it to just the acting power's production site ("a" not "their"). Is that correct? The original question driving my trying to figure this out was supply, as I was playing The Eagle and the Sun scenario and the US and UK had the hardest time allying, and I realized that I didn't know where British supply came from as there isn't a production site on the Pacific map for them.

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Adam Ruzzo
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No. The language in 4.3 is infering a production site for the acting power. See here for more clarifying language, specifically the final paragraph:



A production site acts as a point of origin when its power places new units or traces a line of communications.

So yes, the UK must hold the entire supply chain through the med to receive the resources and supply units in the pacific theater. That is the intention.
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Marc Hanna
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2.3.9 Production Sites
A production site is a home area controlled by its original
power. (not just any friendly production area)


This means that the LOC must be traced from London as you say, through the Med and Egypt. There is no other route. If that is correct, then there should be a special rule in that scenario C.2 about British supply.

[Adam the ninja never sleeps but I still say there should be clarification about this supply issue in the scenario rules....]

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Adam Ruzzo
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Re: supply in C.4: that's a good point. I assume the designers intended for any newly constructed British units to follow the normal rules and appear in the Indian ocean through Connector D. There should be a single sentence to confirm that in the scenario though, since there is no map and so technically the Brits have no production sites.
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Jonathan Entner
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Thanks for the responses. I think 4.3 could be worded more clearly to make it explicit that it's only the acting power's production sites that are traced from: change the "a" to "their" or something in the lead-off sentence, since the "its" you pointed to is at the end of that rule paragraph.

And I think this is a bit harsh on the Brits, as historically Australia effectively drew supply from the US once they were allied and the Brits rerouted shipping away from the Med, which takes longer (and more ships overall), but would still allow some of the Pacific production (half maybe?). I understand that they wanted to keep the rules as clean and simple and consistent between powers as possible. Perhaps a "Shipping reroute" chit for the South Africa box, akin to the Trans-Siberian RR chit for the Russians? If the chit allowed a logistics unit representing the additional required shipping to be placed in the SA box, then it would take a force pool slot and the cost to build, plus the political action cost to place it.

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Kevin Bernatz
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Scott can confirm but I am fairly certain the intent is:

1) Brits are in supply if they can trace to connector D (i.e. as if the med path on the European map was not blocked).

and

2) A 'production site' only applies to the controlling power; i.e. Washington D.C. is never a 'production site' for the Brits, even if Allied to the US (and likewise London is never a production site for the US).

The problem is that we wanted to keep LOC rules simple and if we allow production sites to function for allies, we'd have to distinguish between LOC for placement of units, etc. and LOC for supply (since the UK should not be allowed to place units into Washington DC :-> ).

-K
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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The scenario rules do in fact say:
British units are placed on the map by entering via map connector “D”.

But supply is not mentioned explicitly, unfortunately. All British LOCs for the scenario should originate at connector D.
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Marc Hanna
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kbernatz wrote:
Scott can confirm but I am fairly certain the intent is:

1) Brits are in supply if they can trace to connector D (i.e. as if the med path on the European map was not blocked).

and

2) A 'production site' only applies to the controlling power; i.e. Washington D.C. is never a 'production site' for the Brits, even if Allied to the US (and likewise London is never a production site for the US).

The problem is that we wanted to keep LOC rules simple and if we allow production sites to function for allies, we'd have to distinguish between LOC for placement of units, etc. and LOC for supply (since the UK should not be allowed to place units into Washington DC :-> ).

-K


Also mentioned in an earlier thread is the overall notion that the UK is forced to fight for the Med, therefore no special S Africa route. Allowing supply from the USA in C.4 (or any scenario) would mitigate this. I agree with the OP from a historical perspective...
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