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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: TI4 Map Generator rss

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Witold Jakubowski
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Is there any chance the generator will allow to manualy alter the layout of the tiles or set up it as written in rules? This would be an awesome tool for PBF games.

Anyways - great work!
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Matthias Puhlmann
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Great work thank you!

Would it be possible to add an option to randomize the positions of the home systems?

I know that a lot players don't like to play with the "pizza slice" maps.
 
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Casey Smith
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Is there any chance this map generator could give me a foot message and make me a Cherry Coke?
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Witold Jakubowski
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SwissQueso wrote:
Is there any chance this map generator could give me a foot message and make me a Cherry Coke?

Sorry if I've sounded demanding, was just curious what's the direction it will go in future and got a bit wishful with my suggestions. I got nothing but appreciation for the great work AckbarsRevenge has done.
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Casey Smith
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Oh no worries, I just saw the back to back requests and just thought it would be hilarious to ask from something impossible.
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Aaron Carey
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Very nice work! I am curious about your thoughts on whether the 5-player maps generated by this tool sufficiently balance the proximity of resources to home systems to let everyone stop distributing extra trade goods at the start of the game to some players, as specified in the 5-player rules.

The "official" solution of giving some players 2-4 trade goods to rebalance a 5-player map struck me as a problematic way to rebalance a 5-player game. Using this tool seem like a far more elegant solution that would only be undermined by giving some players 2-4 trade goods at the start of the game.

Again, really good stuff - Fantasy Flight should host your tool on their site!
 
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Derek Peterson
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Quote:
Is there any chance the generator will allow to manualy alter the layout of the tiles or set up it as written in rules? This would be an awesome tool for PBF games.

Quote:
Would it be possible to add an option to randomize the positions of the home systems?

I'd like add both these options. Next change I'll be working on is custom layouts and then a star by star style option is more likely after I get that working.

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Derek Peterson
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aaronca wrote:
Very nice work! I am curious about your thoughts on whether the 5-player maps generated by this tool sufficiently balance the proximity of resources to home systems to let everyone stop distributing extra trade goods at the start of the game to some players, as specified in the 5-player rules.

When I look at the results of the generator for 5-player I do think it seems to do a decent job making the more crowded section more resource rich. That being said, I don't think I've played enough games to really say if that will offset the increased competition in that section of the galaxy. I suspect it might still warrant some kind of bonus, despite being richer.

I hope to get alternative layouts for 5-player working at some point. Having optimised warp-zone or non-symmetrical maps might make for better balance at 5 players.
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Helena Kanter
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It is a great tool but it takes a lot of tries to get something playable.
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A 6player map with resource weighting turned to max. and everything else default. One player gets zero planets (and both empty wormhole systems) next to their home system, another gets at least thibah....

The manual tool would be a tremendous help. This way we could freely build and exchange map ideas and create a library of preset maps and adjust the random ones if need be.

 
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Alwin Derijck
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Are you sure it was set at maximum instead of minimum?

Last time I had a look at the tool there was min max indication so one could not tell if max is left or right.
 
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Helena Kanter
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I put it all the way to the right where you usually (like everywhere) encounter the maximum. If this is the other way around on this generator, please change it.
 
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Peter Kraus
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I have to agree,

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This appears to be far from balanced.
Is there a way to do a sanity check after the generation?
e.g.: No player starts next to 3 empty hexes?

Considering that the early territorial objectives require you to control a certain amount of planets outside of your home system, maybe that is something to consider in the distribution? (i.e. the objective should be obtainable by every starting position in theory)
 
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Casey Smith
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bufferunderflow wrote:
I have to agree,

8656263
This appears to be far from balanced.
Is there a way to do a sanity check after the generation?
e.g.: No player starts next to 3 empty hexes?

Considering that the early territorial objectives require you to control a certain amount of planets outside of your home system, maybe that is something to consider in the distribution? (i.e. the objective should be obtainable by every starting position in theory)

Dude next to three empty tiles is also next to a wormhole that puts him right in the middle of a lot of tasty planets and Mecatol Rex. Not ideal by any stretch, but workable. He also has a pretty easy route to 6 planets, its actually the person in the north that is going to have the hardest time.

I actually think this is a pretty interesting map. The eastern half is really rich, and would imagine there is going to be a lot of fighting for it. Considering everyone is almost in a lane.

Also you could easily just trade one of those empty with something somewhere else.
 
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Will Richman
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Having used this a few times now, my only complaint is that it tends to congregate empty tiles together. Could we get an option to prevent more than, say, 2 empty tiles from being adjacent? This would also prevent any home tile from having no adjacent planets. Otherwise, great job on this tool! Thanks for putting the time into it!
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Austin Muck
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Kansas
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As someone looking to compress total play time in order to get people to play, this is a great tool. Thanks!
 
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Derek Peterson
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Hey Everyone!

I've come back to the generator and made a couple changes since last time.

Custom map shapes are now supported via json files. I've uploaded several new shapes for various player counts, if people have requests for more message me here or on github and I can add more.

Star-by-Star style layouts, where the home systems can be placed anywhere are now supported. Ticking the star-by-star option will randomly place the home systems and then let the optimiser fine-tune their positioning

Added a check to prevent home systems being placed with no adjacent planets (most frequently happened when they get two empty space wormholes, and then another non-planet system, which I don't think is ideal)

Thanks to a contribution by Cruix, the generator will now output a string that can be copied into Tabletop Simulator to set up a map. This only works on the standard maps right now

Once again let me know if you have any feedback, or notice any bugs!
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John Lagerquist
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Pleasant View
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Have you tried using a genetic algorithm to generate balanced maps?
 
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Florian Wanka
Austria
Wien
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This is amazing. I got a shape for 5 players that we tried and it worked rather well.



I basically cut out 2 Tiles from the top and moved the starting positions around to make them all equidistant to each other and mercatol. So far our 2 games on it turned out to be fun and balanced.
(Planets just for visuals)
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Alwin Derijck
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Interesting layout for 5 players.

Need to try it.
 
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Derek Peterson
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Kazadoom wrote:
This is amazing. I got a shape for 5 players that we tried and it worked rather well.



I basically cut out 2 Tiles from the top and moved the starting positions around to make them all equidistant to each other and mercatol. So far our 2 games on it turned out to be fun and balanced.
(Planets just for visuals)

Cool setup!

Added as "Kazadooms's Notch" under the 5-player layout options.
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Florian Wanka
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Haha thanks!modest
It might need more tries cause the top startingnpositions need 2 systems i guess.
Trying it now!
 
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Bl rp
Sweden
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Is the 5-player standard 3-ring hex balanced with the starting trade goods in mind, or is the intent that no trade goods are allocated? I think both options should exist.
 
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The Ravener
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It is and it isn't. Some races can get super ahead with a 4 trade good boost.
 
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Alex Grover
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Derek Peterson
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, this map generator is fascinating and great.

I was wondering, exactly how does the weighting work for distance? For example, how much more weight does a system receive if it's one space away (adjacent to) a home system versus two spaces away?

After playing around with this for a while, it seems like some players often get disadvantaged by having empty hexes or wormhole-only hexes next to their home system. It makes me wonder if more weight needs to be applied to the hexes that are adjacent to home systems?

Or, have you considered having the weighting code only consider systems that are within 2 or 3 hexes from each home system? Because it seems like wormholes often make up the deficit for empty spaces in the weighing system, but the systems on the other side of the wormhole are effectively 3 or 4 spaces away and will often be taken before a player can reach them. And in that case, why include systems 4 or more spaces away in the weighting system if the player will rarely if ever be able to reach them before other players?

I'm not a coder so I couldn't do this myself and I'm not sure how difficult it would be, but I wanted to ask what you thought. You've made a fascinating tool here.
 
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Derek Peterson
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Blrp wrote:
Is the 5-player standard 3-ring hex balanced with the starting trade goods in mind, or is the intent that no trade goods are allocated? I think both options should exist.

The intent would be to have it balanced without the 4 trade good bonus. I'm unsure of how to value the trade good bonus for purposes of map generation.

Imagine you had a system only you could access the entire game, with no tech specialty/planet trait. How good would that system have to be, in terms of resources/influence for you to trade 4 or 2 trade goods for it?

If I can come up with an answer to that question then I could add such an option. I would give a virtual planet to the home systems that would get the trade good bonus to balance things out.
 
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