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Subject: Potential content for an expansion rss

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Juma Al-JouJou
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easy_cure wrote:
that sounds really great, can't wait to get the expansion... I've got one question about the animal clan: are you going to put more sheep and cow meeples into the expension or is the animal breeding limited to four of each type?

Limited to 4 of each type.
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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2 players, manager vs. nomad

We played a 2 player game with the manager clan (buddy) vs. nomad clan (me) last night:

Manager clan: 133 VP
Nomad clan: 132 VP

The manager clan scored only 39 VP from contracts but a whopping 53 VP from glory. The flexibility of its clan ability allowed my buddy to score about 11-15 VP more from the scoring tiles and 29 VP from goods.

The nomad clan scored 83 VP from the contracts but lost settlement scoring and had few goods (8 VP) and "only" 41 VP from glory. We ruled that the nomad player would also lay down the miners to make the distinguishable from woodcutters to make sure they stick to their terrain. My buddy who played the nomad clan said it felt quite strong and suggested to allow only animals to move but not workers.

So the two clans felt balanced with each other.


3 player game, nomad vs. animal vs. railroad clan


The setup with the new scoring tile (3 VP per unit in your biggest settlement) in round 3 and the meat scoring tile in round 4 was very good for both the animal and the nomad clan.

Animal clan: 195 VP
Nomad clan: 187 VP
Railroad clan: 143 VP

The railroad clan was given 15 railroad tokens. This was restricting but ok. However, the restriction of 15 railroads did make me shy away from the meat contracts because that would have meant that I had to place a lot more railroad tokens. In addition, meat contracts dont fit the railroad clan who wants to buy goods instead. I did manage to use 3 port tiles and I had to use only 2 railroad tokens on opponents hexes and loch hexes to reach the port tiles. I won the settlement scoring with 16 settlements easily. I am not sure that the railroad clan is necessarily weaker than the other 2 clans: the scoring tile setup was bad and I didn't play optimally. I now am pretty convinced that the railroad clan should place as many workers as possible in the first round and also upgrade the workers since placing units is more expensive for this clan and the clan needs significant amounts of money to buy a lot through neighborhood bonus. By placing many workers, the clan denies many cheap forest/mountain spots from opponents who in turn are more likely to place goods production units which helps the railroad clan to benefit
from the neighborhood bonus. We were unsure how to handle neighborhood bonus exactly:

1) should only opponents units on hexes with railroads or neighboring the deployed unit be available for neighborhood bonus OR
2) also the opponents units neighboring any own production units of the railroad clan?

We played according to 2) but I prefer version 1 but that means the railroad tokens are even tighter. And 15 railroads is quite a lot already and we might need more. I would like to try cardboard tokens instead of wooden cubes which are cheaper to produce but also a little more fiddly.

Railroads: we ruled that 1 physical railroad bot placed would score 1 VP at game end. That is not worth it, using them is way better in comparison. I think we would need to give 2 or even 3 VP per railroad not used. I would suggest trying the railroad clan with 16 railroads and 2 VP per railroad not used. The VP bonus should not be so high that you actively avoid placing railroads.

EDIT: the railroad clan spent 35 pounds for railroads (visible and invisible ones).

Both the animal clan and nomad clan slaughtered A LOT! The nomad clan fulfilled 9 export contracts with very little production at game end because most contracts included meat.

My buddy didnt like the animal clan as much as the manager clan but he doesnt like to slaughter in general, so the animal clan might simply not fit his play style. The animal clan strategy is pretty obvious: place 2 sheep and 2 cows in first round and from round 3 on you need to slaughter at least 1 cow and 1 sheep per round. Achieving that is not so trivial though. The animal clan scored 15 VP from the scoring tile where units in a player's biggest settlement score VP and 14 VP from the meat scoring tile. If these 2 scoring tiles were different his score would probably around 15 VP lower.

Overall I am very happy with the clans: manager, nomad, animal and railroad all feel interesting and unique (nomad and animal clan are a bit similar and meat focused). Now we can finetune them to make sure they are balanced. Feel free to playtest them and give feedback.
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RJ
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Innovatormentor wrote:
Overall I am very happy with the clans: manager, nomad, animal and railroad all feel interesting and unique (nomad and animal clan are a bit similar and meat focused). Now we can finetune them to make sure they are balanced. Feel free to playtest them and give feedback.

Hi Juma. Would you mind presenting the current iterations and rules of those three clans in one new post? I would appreciate it, given all this discussion which (with no shortage of hard work) has drawn your original clan ideas in many directions, but ultimately to a point you are satisfied with. I would love to playtest them and assist with the feedback process as well.
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Juma Al-JouJou
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Rontuaru wrote:
Innovatormentor wrote:
Overall I am very happy with the clans: manager, nomad, animal and railroad all feel interesting and unique (nomad and animal clan are a bit similar and meat focused). Now we can finetune them to make sure they are balanced. Feel free to playtest them and give feedback.

Hi Juma. Would you mind presenting the current iterations and rules of those three clans in one new post? I would appreciate it, given all this discussion which (with no shortage of hard work) has drawn your original clan ideas in many directions, but ultimately to a point you are satisfied with. I would love to playtest them and assist with the feedback process as well.

I think I will present the latest iteration in a googlespreadsheet. That way it is easier for folks to see the latest/current version of a clan/port/scoring tile. Thank you for willing to playtest!

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Oliver Lenaghan
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Non mechanism related... Will the expansion be in a box that will fit everything in? I know this was a concern for a few people on Kickstarter (not me I managed to fit it all but it is a tight fit). If there's more to fit in the box... It will burst haha.

Ps recess all the way. Managed to find pvc recess templates for the player boards... What a purchase! Nothing slips anymore haha
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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Here is kind of a summary of the current state after having playtested some ideas:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y-F-6dRe7nJmi9s5jEFR...

Feel free to playtest any of the content in the spreadsheet and provide feedback here!
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Christopher Thomas
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Innovatormentor wrote:
The railroad clan....

We were unsure how to handle neighborhood bonus exactly:

1) should only opponents units on hexes with railroads or neighboring the deployed unit be available for neighborhood bonus OR
2) also the opponents units neighboring any own production units of the railroad clan?

We played according to 2) but I prefer version 1 but that means the railroad tokens are even tighter. And 15 railroads is quite a lot already and we might need more. I would like to try cardboard tokens instead of wooden cubes which are cheaper to produce but also a little more fiddly.
I think I ran into this situation, and I thought that it was best to allow both neighborhood bonuses as such:

- you use the full clan power (1 merchant for goods of each type) with all opponent units on the railroad , AND
- you use the normal neighborhood bonus (1 merchant PER good) with opponent units not on the railroad but neighboring the unit you just placed.

My preference is that this doesn't need an extra exception rule saying you can't take normal neighborhood bonuses. And it doesn't seem overpowered since it would be limited to 1 good per merchant.
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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svardosi wrote:
Innovatormentor wrote:
The railroad clan....

We were unsure how to handle neighborhood bonus exactly:

1) should only opponents units on hexes with railroads or neighboring the deployed unit be available for neighborhood bonus OR
2) also the opponents units neighboring any own production units of the railroad clan?

We played according to 2) but I prefer version 1 but that means the railroad tokens are even tighter. And 15 railroads is quite a lot already and we might need more. I would like to try cardboard tokens instead of wooden cubes which are cheaper to produce but also a little more fiddly.
I think I ran into this situation, and I thought that it was best to allow both neighborhood bonuses as such:

- you use the full clan power (1 merchant for goods of each type) with all opponent units on the railroad , AND
- you use the normal neighborhood bonus (1 merchant PER good) with opponent units not on the railroad but neighboring the unit you just placed.

My preference is that this doesn't need an extra exception rule saying you can't take normal neighborhood bonuses. And it doesn't seem overpowered since it would be limited to 1 good per merchant.

Your interpretation was even a bit more strict with that regard. I would prefer not to introduce different kind of neighborhood bonuses for this clan since this adds complexity.

What I would like to do is try the following changes:

+ You do NOT place any railroads on hexes you expand onto (neither visible nor invisible), so the cost for expanding is not increased. You can cross rivers nonetheless (without any extra cost and despite the fact that you have no shipping tech).

+ You do place railroads only to cross land hexes and loch spaces (still 1-2 grey cubes per turn at the cost of 1 pound each).

+ If you slaughter an animal, you do not place a railroad token on the hex.

+ Neighborhood bonus: only hexes directly neighboring the hex you expand onto are considered neighboring as the normal rules suggest. Opponents' units far away on railroads are not considered neighboring anymore.

+ You can retrieve 1-2 railroad cubes from the map per turn for 2 pounds each.
 
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Rene Raps
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lenaghano wrote:
....
Managed to find pvc recess templates for the player boards... What a purchase! Nothing slips anymore
Tell us more please! WHERE did you find them?
 
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Steve Clark
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Are those the 4 clans going forward? have the other 3 been dropped?

(just so I know which ones to test with the automa)

Quote:
+ Neighborhood bonus: only hexes directly neighboring the hex you expand onto are considered neighboring as the normal rules suggest. Opponents' units far away on railroads are not considered neighboring anymore.

Is it still 3-4 goods per merchant?
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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Yep dropped.


Yes, 1 merchant per type of good traded through neighborhood bonus.
 
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Christian Müller
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hi Juma, thanks for the spreadsheet... for the nomad clan you wrote 'move animal or worker once per move', what do you mean by 'once per move'? turn or round? and by using this clan power I can't cross water, right? (cause that is not seen as neighbouring and otherwise you would write 'within shipping reach', did I get that right?)
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Juma Al-JouJou
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I updated the information of the new version of the railroad clan to be tested such that under version 1 you find the whole clan description, but the changes are in orange font.
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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easy_cure wrote:
hi Juma, thanks for the spreadsheet... for the nomad clan you wrote 'move animal or worker once per move', what do you mean by 'once per move'? turn or round? and by using this clan power I can't cross water, right? (cause that is not seen as neighbouring and otherwise you would write 'within shipping reach', did I get that right?)

Once per move = once per turn

Yes, cannot move across rivers. However, the clan can of course expand across rivers with shipping technology but then they also pay full hex cost.
 
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Christopher Thomas
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Innovatormentor wrote:
What I would like to do is try the following changes:

+ You do NOT place any railroads on hexes you expand onto (neither visible nor invisible), so the cost for expanding is not increased. You can cross rivers nonetheless (without any extra cost and despite the fact that you have no shipping tech).

+ You do place railroads only to cross land hexes and loch spaces (still 1-2 grey cubes per turn at the cost of 1 pound each).

+ If you slaughter an animal, you do not place a railroad token on the hex.

+ Neighborhood bonus: only hexes directly neighboring the hex you expand onto are considered neighboring as the normal rules suggest. Opponents' units far away on railroads are not considered neighboring anymore.

+ You can retrieve 1-2 railroad cubes from the map per turn for 2 pounds each.
I tried this version out, and I think it worked well.

Railroad Clan (me) = 169*
Automa Opponent = 163

*In the final round, I bought 4 railroad tokens back for 2 each -- assuming these scored 1 VP each (not sure if you intended that for this version or not). If you don't want railroads in stock to count for VP, I would have built a cow to score a few points that way, and end with 166.

The rules are simpler, and you don't need to scan the board to determine all the units you can use the neighborhood bonus for.

I used the neighborhood bonus 3 times:
(1) Round 1 - for cheap grain to process at a bakery & distillery
(2) Round 3 - for cheap cheese... using the +3 market Port to raise the price even further in Round 4 to sell.
(3) Round 4 - for cheap bread to convert for contracts, and sold some back in Round 5 for income.

Having 12 railroad tokens was enough, since you can buy them back in the late game. Buying some back, allowed me to reach the 4th Port in Round 4, AND connect all my settlements at the end of Round 5.

I had 13 settlements at the end. It feels very likely that the Railroad Clan will win the settlement bonus most of the time, since it can link settlements over LAND as well as LOCHS/RIVERS.

As my earlier plays with this clan, I built all 4 miners (upgraded) in Round 1 so that I would have cash to do neighborhood buying. However, after playing it, I think it may be possible to play a more balanced strategy, or maybe even more production heavy for income. I say this because you don't have to pay the 1 pound extra for each unit as you did in the previous version, so you may not be quite so cash tight. I don't know... I did have all 7 merchants out by the end of this game, anyways. Someone will have to try it and see.
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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Quote:
*In the final round, I bought 4 railroad tokens back for 2 each -- assuming these scored 1 VP each (not sure if you intended that for this version or not). If you don't want railroads in stock to count for VP, I would have built a cow to score a few points that way, and end with 166.

Yes that is intended. So if the settlement scoring is tight, they cant buy back as many railroads.

Quote:
The rules are simpler, and you don't need to scan the board to determine all the units you can use the neighborhood bonus for.

Im very glad that the effect was as intended!

Quote:
It feels very likely that the Railroad Clan will win the settlement bonus most of the time, since it can link settlements over LAND as well as LOCHS/RIVERS.

It will be interesting to see how it is against Clan MacDonald or Clan Fergusson who usually are good at the settlement scoring as well.

Quote:
As my earlier plays with this clan, I built all 4 miners (upgraded) in Round 1 so that I would have cash to do neighborhood buying. However, after playing it, I think it may be possible to play a more balanced strategy, or maybe even more production heavy for income.

I am still convinced that you should go very worker heavy in round 1 and 2. If you want to fulfill a contract in round 2, you dont need to buy merchants, you can buy cheaply via neighborhood bonus using only 1 merchant (max. 2 merchants). Once the prices of processed goods are increased, you start deploying buildings to sell at high prices.

Tonight we will play with 4 players, I am very curious how it will work out. I can imagine that at 4 players the clan is better because it is easier to use the neighborhood bonus more often.

Thank you for playtesting and providing feedback, Christopher!
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Adam Cowlin
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Innovatormentor wrote:
Hi everyone,

even though nothing is set in stone yet with regard to the expansion I am working on, I would still like to post some half-baked ideas to receive feedback. Some of the ideas I have tested a bit, some I have not tested yet.

So far I am more leaning to adding more clans, port and scoring tiles and maybe more terrain tiles rather than adding completely new mechanics that affect the whole game. Completely new and complex mechanics would rather appear in new clan powers. That way the increased complexity mostly affects the respective player and does not increase the overall complexity too much.

CLAN POWERS:

1) "Nomad" Clan:
You can move 1 worker or animal per move to a neighboring hex space at no cost (this is only possible of the new hex has a matching terrain for your unit). You can then expand on the emptied hex space without paying the terrain cost.

2) Glory Clan
Receive 8 pounds each time your glory passes 5 or 10 glory.

3) Goods Clan:
Receive 2 VP for each basic good and 4 VPs for each processed good and 1 VP for 5 pounds at the end of the game.

4) Highly-Skilled (Manager) Clan:
Their starting workers are 2 special workers (with advanced training) meeples that are for free but they need to pay the hex cost (can be placed on forest or mountain in the beginning). The worker can move according to their shipping range onto any hex with an own unit on it. Each unit with a special meeple on the same hex space would have an increased production capacity of +1 good (+5 pounds for workers) since the highly skilled worker is making it more efficient. A processed building needs 2 basic goods to be able to produce 2 processed goods. However, moving the special workers does cost 2 pounds.

5) Animal Clan:
Two animals of one kind of yours can produce 1 extra animal on a neighboring hexspace of any of those 2 animals for free (no unit and no hex cost).

6) Canal Clan:
Once per turn, you can spend 2 pounds to build a canal tile (or 2 tiles for 5 pounds) along a river (covering 1-2 edges of a hex space). All land hexes along a canal are considered reachable via shipping for you, even without shipping upgrades. You have 15 canal tiles available, 10 covering 2 edges and 5 covering a single edge. Each canal scores 1 VP at the end of the game.

7) Railroad Clan:
Start of Game: You have 12 grey cubes in your stock that represent railroad tracks.

You can build 1-2 railroad tokens per turn (in addition to your main action) adjacent to any of your units or any railroad token already placed. You can even place railroads on hexes occupied by you or your opponents' units. The cost for doing so depends on the miner (not necessarily your miner) that is closest. The cost is: distance * 2 pounds. All land hexes along railroads are reachable for you without shipping. Placing a grey cube across a river costs 3 pounds extra.

The hexes on which a railroad is built are not occupied by you until you deploy a unit there. You still pay the land cost.

When you deploy on a hex with a railroad: any opponents' units along the same raildroad are considered neighboring and you can use the neighborhood bonus for exactly one type of good and buy 3 (or 4 in a two player game) units of that good with a single merchant. All your units along the railroad are considered connected via shipping for the settlement scoring.

End of game: 1 VP per railroad token built.

EDIT: I tend to think that crossing loch spaces with railroads should not be allowed.


PORT TILES:

1)
When you fulfill a contract that requires processed goods, you can pay with any processed goods.

2)
-2 Upgrades
OR flip back 1 tech tile
+ 1 processed good
+ 2 basic goods

3)
You can reserve a hex space for yourself by putting a specific marker on it. If you expand on it later (you need to be able to reach it), you do not pay the terrain cost. No other player can expand on it. (alternatively a small VP penalty if the player does not expand on it to avoid screwage)

EDIT: I tend not to like this one too much anymore.

4)
Take back 3 merchants from the market into your stock (next to your player board).

EDIT: I nerfed this one from 4 to 3 merchants as 4 could be too powerful when used for high-speed trading in round 1.


SCORING TILES

1)
2 VP per unit in your biggest settlement.

2)
2 VP per different type of unit on the map (8 types)

3)
Receive 2 glory for each unit of the import goods you have most of.


ADDITIONAL FINAL SCORING TILES

These could give 12 and 6 VP to the two best players:

1)
Least units on the map

2)
Most goods in stock (processed goods count twice).

3)
Most glory


TERRAIN TILES

I like the idea of single hex tiles with special terrains.

1)
Bridge on Loch hex:
A loch hex, with a bridge connecting 2 sides. The two land spaces connected through the bridge are considered neighboring.

2)
Forest/Mountain Hex without any grass land.

3)
3 peat hex tiles:
they are placed on any land hex at the beginning of the game (in different map modules). A player who can reach the hex can spend a turn and place a spare worker on it for free. The worker is cutting peat. In the production phase the spare worker goes back to the player board and the player receives the peat tile. The land hex space beneath is now accessible for expansion for all players who reach it.

The player who gained the peat tile can use it to dry malted barley. That means the player can discard the peat tile when they sell grain on the market and receive +3 pounds for up to 2 grain each in addition to market price.

EXPORT CONTRACTS

1) flexible contracts: a few additional contracts may allow a certain flexibility which processed goods you need to discard. However, their average payoff should be a bit lower than average.

EDIT: Some contracts could also require to pay rare import goods.

2)
the building bonus could be an additional direct export bonus.


SOLO GAMEPLAY

I am working on a more sophisticated solo gameplay that also simulates the expansion of an opponent.

I am also thinking about a potential automa variant but I strongly prefer automas that are very easy to use.

I will post sth regarding this when I have made more progess.


Do you have any feedback? Which ideas do you like/dislike?


1. The nomads clan sounds really interesting Yo be of my favourite ideas would you have to expand onto the emptied space as part of the same action when you move the meeple to an adjacent space?

2.The glory clan strikes me as a really good idea but the actual power seems really weak. could you not change this so every time your glory marker passes a coin on the track you gain 5 coins? this would seem like a better balance to me.

3.The goods clan sounds interesting. I like the idea of hording supplies until the end of the game for 1 big payout. I do worry that the ability heavily contradicts the main purpose of the game that is to fulfil export contracts imo. That said this clan can be a very differnet way to play the game. let your opponents lower the market value of any items and buy them up for end game scoring whilst they are cheap. Also utilise neibourhood bonus to just stockpile tons of goods for 1 massive end game payout.

4. This sounds really interesting? definitely my favourite idea. How would you place the specialist workers. At the start of the game instead of miners and woodcutters or aswell as the miners and woodcutters?

5. Is it only me that thinks the animal clan is ridiculously overpowered. A free animal each turn is a huge advantage. From a slaughtering point of view yes you cull the numbers down but if it was me I would avoid meat contracts I would only ever need to pay for 2 animals in the game then each round just get another for free. and keep spending my money on dairy factories etc you'd quickly have a ton of resources and on the last round can grab a few meat contracts and slaughter all your cows and sheep that haven't even cost you anything.

6. The canal clan is excellent and very differnet. I'd increase the cost of the canal placement and have it interact with other players in some way.

7. The railroad idea seems cool but seems a little complicated compared to the rest of the clans there are a lot of rules for just that 1 clan right there. I don't think the railroads should be worth VP the ability is already very powerful as it is.

The port tiles:

1. honestly I hate this tile idea it seems to devalue the gain any 2 for any 1 processed goods port tile. It's just too similar. Its also very boring I mean the whole point of the export contracts is to fulfil the contracts demands but this just let's you put anything in to fulfil the contract and I think that's too easy.

2.Very interesting I can't see me ever wanting to use this because the tech tiles are so valuable I try to upgrade them as quick as possible. That said on the last turn it could prove very useful to flip a tech tile and grab some extra goods. Also can be crucial to help you finish a contract I like this one a lot.

3. I like it and I like it without the VP penalty area control is a big part of the game and this could prove really useful to block an opponent in. That said I do understand a lot of people would prefer not to be screwed over so the VP penalty does make sense I suppose.

4. Best port tile by far this is absoloutley brilliant and very very useful. Would this effect fast trading rules?

Victory point tiles

1./2. both would be a great addition to the game. Very good scoring tiles.

3. seems very similar to an existing scoring tile. Maybe if this was for hops instead of the other 3 commodities.

end game scoring

I don't know about any of these I'm not sure we need more end game scoring. adding a end game score bonus to a clan sure yeah that could be good but as a whole extra things to add up at the end doesn't really appeal to me.

Terrain tiles

All of these ideas are Absoloutley great. Only thing I would like to add is more please. more unique hexes would be great. Also some rules on how to place these would be great aswell. rather than just saying place these randomly if there could be a random method to determine there positions and which ones are used in the game that would be great.

Export contracts

Definitely add more contracts. there's already a lot but you can never have too many. As I've previously touched upon though I'm against flexible contracts the most fun is trying to make sure you have exactly what you need. if the game was too flexible it takes a lot away from the game. That said I love the idea of paying rare imported goods. Personally I'd have export contracts that require tobacco sugar cane and cotton mixed with other resources. These export contracts should have big payouts but at the end of the game you reduce your total tobacco sugar cane and cotton by whatever you have sent out. if you don't have enough to cover the amount you have exported you suffer a VP penalty. Also When you complete a contract that requires an imported good e.g. 2 tobacco you have to move the tobacco 2 spaces back on the glory track. If the tobacco can not move back 2 spaces you can not complete the contract.

In addition to these ideas would love to see any of the following I think some of this stuff has already been mentioned.

1. A clan called Macintosh

2. A symbol on any expansion stuff so it's easy to identify and remove and add as wanted.

3. This is something I doubt you will add but chickens would be cool they can produce eggs and be slaughtered for meat. both eggs and chicken can be integrated into some new export contracts. A tile similar to the MacDonald clan tile can be added to be placed next to the player board to track your chickens.The market board would need something similar to track the cost of eggs.

4. If the game is gonna be produced through Kickstarter a nice add on could be giant playerboards. The boards are quite small and players with poor eyesight can find it hard to see how much they generate in production and what things actually cost them to build. it's not essential as nothing in this game a secretive so other players can help them but we have a gamer in our group with poor sight and simply having a larger player board would make this game a lot easier for them. Just an idea for an add on if you go that route.

5.More double sided landscape tiles would vary the game set up even more.

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Steve Clark
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Automa Report - Animal Clan
===========================
Map: 12 (A1,B2,C2,D2)
Start: MBW (milk,bread,wool)
Rounds: Border, Basic, Meat, Upgrades, Processed
Ports: Meat (NW), Price (NE), Processed (SE), £10 (SW)

Scoring:

Glory - 38
Goods (B/P) - 5+24
Cash - 5
Hops - 16
Imports (C/T/S) - 36+25+18
Contracts - 8 (won 8-7)
Settlements - 0 (lost 14-8)

Total = 175
Automa = 167

My first automa game, and it was harder than expected thanks to all the insta-contract fulfilling in round 5 (he grabbed 4 of his 7 there). Thankfully there was a lot of wool+cheese contracts to chase, after I finished setting up my breeding pairs in round 2. I gave up on settlements thanks to aggressive expansion, instead focusing on the ports, contracts and keeping my processed goods up for the last round tile.

Thoughts:

I tried the animal clan in the old solo a few months back, I liked it then and I still like it now. Yes, you are getting 2 free animals a round...but it takes some setting up, it's not settlement-friendly and you need to keep slaughtering to take full advantage of it. (therefore the right contracts need to keep showing up too)
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Steve Clark
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Automa Report - Nomad Clan
===========================
Map: 2 (A2,B1,C1,D1)
Start: GWY (grain,wool,whisky)
Rounds: Import, Expensive, Workers, Buildings, Upgrades
Ports: Kickstarter (NW), 5+BBonus (NE), 3G+Upgrade (SE), Basic (SW)

Scoring:

Glory - 58
Goods (B/P) - 3+28
Cash - 8
Hops - 7
Imports (C/T/S) - 20+28+21
Contracts - 8 (won 7-4)
Settlements - 12 (won 11-10)

Total = 193
Automa = 118

So it looks like the automa can be super-swingy - he only built 1 extra worker throughout the whole thing, meaning he had very few actions...he also skipped the market in round 1 and never sold anything. He had enough processed goods but never the sheep or the wool when it came to knocking off contracts at the start of each round.

I went for the full-worker strategy based on the Nomad's power and the round tile, using it to get the 4 woodcutters out cheaply (the miners were helped along by a tax-free build off the opening contract), with the last miner and both upgrades coming on round 2. From there it was a case of full expansion (including some opportunist land grabs when he slaughtered animals) with some trading, and his lack of actions gave me full freedom later in each round.

Thoughts:

Once the workers were up, I didn't use the clan's ability that much (only to move a couple of cows), as I was expanding up through £2-3 spots (towards the KS port) and needed fields+factories rather than farms.

As a result I think version 1 (on the spreadsheet) would be too weak IMO, not to mention it would pigeonhole the clan into doing animals when we have another new clan doing the same.

As long as it's made clear that you cannot turn woodcutters into miners (and vice versa) by moving to/from hybrid spots, it should be fine IMO. (if still too strong, perhaps pay to make them move)
 
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Adam Cowlin
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We have a couple of ideas for a few more scoring tiles.

1. 3VP for every livestock you have

2. 4VP for every port you used this turn

3. 3VP for every factory you have (cheese whiskey and bread)

4. 2VP for every merchant that sold a basic good this round 3VP for every merchant that sold a processed good this round.

A couple of port ideas

1. On your player board move any minor to a space on the wood cutter track or vice versa.

2. Take any basic good from the supply. and gain money equal to it's current value on the market track. (no merchants required)
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Niko Pe
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Bohdominator wrote:
We have a couple of ideas for a few more scoring tiles.

1. 3VP for every livestock you have

2. 4VP for every port you used this turn

3. 3VP for every factory you have (cheese whiskey and bread)

4. 2VP for every merchant that sold a basic good this round 3VP for every merchant that sold a processed good this round.

A couple of port ideas

1. On your player board move any minor to a space on the wood cutter track or vice versa.

2. Take any basic good from the supply. and gain money equal to it's current value on the market track. (no merchants required)

Very good ideas, Sir. I like them a lot.
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Juma Al-JouJou
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I played a 4 player game last night, all CoC veterans.

I had the feeling that the animal clan is a bit too strong, thus I suggested a new version in the spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y-F-6dRe7nJmi9s5jEFR...

And I suggest trying version 0 for the nomad clan again.

Railroad clan:
Due to the fact that other players had deployed many sheep and cows due to their clan ability, I could hardly buy processed goods through neigborhood. So if their main benefit is the neighborhood bonus, then they are very dependent on the other players. Competent opponents would try to deploy as many workers near the railroad clan to harm them.

I dislike the idea of VP for railroads in stock.

Thus, I tend to think it is better to make their mobility better or cheaper, and remove the VP bonus for railroads in stock. That way the neighborhood bonus has a smaller share of the clan benefit.

Hence, I suggested version 2 and 3 in the spreadsheet. Version 3 has the additional advantage that we'd need only 12 railroad tokens in total.


I also added a few more port and scoring tile ideas to the spreadsheet.
I am especially curious what you think about this end of round scoring tile: minus 2 VP per fulfilled contract

Did anyone try out the port tile that allows you to retrieve 3 merchants from the market?


 
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Steve Clark
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Automa Report - Manager Clan
===========================
Map: 10 (A1,B2,C1,D2)
Start: WB5 (wool,bread,£5)
Rounds: Basic, Border, Processed, Meat, Imports
Ports: 3G+Upgrade (NW), Swap (NE), Price (SE), Basic (SW)

Scoring:

Glory - 59
Goods (B/P) - 6+14
Cash - 5
Hops - 7
Imports (C/T/S) - 24+32+30
Contracts - 8 (won 7-5)
Settlements - 12 (won 12-10)

Total = 197
Automa = 133

Again, the automa was slow to start but this time he did at least get more workers out after round 1. This time I was able to screw with him by building on holes left by animals (after he initially blocked off the price-fixing port), and by stealing the 4-bread/4-wool contracts. (single-goods are more likely to be snatched)

I did the woodcutters-to-miners trick with the swap port and kept the managers around them until round 2, where I bought extra grain and boosted a bakery to do the 4-bread contract in round 3. They moved back to workers until round 5, where I moved one to a sheep for an extra point at the end. (the other one stayed put as I needed to build away from him in order to win at settlements)

Thoughts:

The clan seems pretty solid, along with it's decision-making - you can leave them alone for £10 extra income per round (which is more than most clans get in savings etc.), move one to boost goods (for no net income change), or move both and sacrifice income for even more goods.

It's definitely more advanced than most clans, and is particularly elaborate if you try to boost processed goods with appropriate build planning.

niftgad wrote:
We have a couple of ideas for a few more scoring tiles.

We already have 1VP-per-building, but VP for ports used (or even NOT used) could be interesting. 1VP-per-upgrade is already in the game, but not VP for merchants used during a round. (that could cause a bit of market mayhem with 3-4p)

Innovatormentor wrote:
I played a 4 player game last night, all CoC veterans.

I do like the look of version 3, I'll try it later tonight. I always thought that mobility should be the main strength of the clan, especially as the souped-up neighbourhood bonus (already stronger anyway due to the clan's mobility) turns them into another market clan. (with a disproportionate amount of buying power compared to Stewart but the same amount of selling power...doesn't make sense thematically)

btw, does 2 railways count for 1 upgrade on the round tile?

Innovatormentor wrote:
I also added a few more port and scoring tile ideas to the spreadsheet.
I am especially curious what you think about this end of round scoring tile: minus 2 VP per fulfilled contract

I agree on port 3 undermining Fergusson/Stewart, and port 5 not being very useful. Nerfing port 4 to just 3 merchants will solve the high-speed trading issue, as it would take a lot of setting-up (even for the railway clan) to get more than just £9 in a later round. (in round 1 Cunningham would get £11 with a neighbourhood bonus and 1 bought merchant, which is less than the £16-20 it gets from the basic goods port)

2VP-per-building-type is a bit like 1VP-per-building, in the sense that you'll get a fair amount as you go along. The -2VP-per-contract is an interesting one...while it's better to award points for non-contract stuff, this could still have an effect. (although banning the 1VP-per-import tile will be more useful)
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Juma Al-JouJou
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I thought a bit more about the port tile #4 and #5 in the spreadsheet.

I tend to think that #4 can be very much op.
#5 version 0 was rarely very useful. So I came up with version 1 of port tile #5:

Quote:
When you trade at the market, all your merchants can trade 2 goods instead of one and you can even trade up to 3 types of goods. You can use this port tile only when you choose a trade as your main action. So you can't use it when you expand in neighborhood.

I think now it should be much easier to use this port tile in a way that is beneficial enough. Also, one can save 2 turns. What do you think?
 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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Quote:
So it looks like the automa can be super-swingy

Yeah. I think what would help if any played card would pause for 2 rounds instead of just 1. That way the Automa behavior becomes a bit more predictable and it is less likely that the automa wont deploy any workers in the first round. That should help make the automa less swingy.

Quote:
Thoughts:

The clan seems pretty solid, along with it's decision-making - you can leave them alone for £10 extra income per round (which is more than most clans get in savings etc.)

Yes, the managers scored very well in our games as well. So I would like to make them pay for each movement of managers (which is also a bit more streamlined). This won't nerf them a lot. Updated the scoresheet.

Quote:
btw, does 2 railways count for 1 upgrade on the round tile?

I think this is a good idea (Christopher also suggested sth similar).

Updated the spreadsheet.

Quote:
Nerfing port 4 to just 3 merchants will solve the high-speed trading issue, as it would take a lot of setting-up (even for the railway clan) to get more than just £9 in a later round.

I disagree, even with retrieving 3 merchants the railroad clan or clan stewart can gain a huge advantage:

The cheese and bread price is 10 at the beginning. Imagine the railroad clan buys 4 cheese and 2 whisky through neighborhood. They pay 3*7+2*8=37 pounds. They need only 1 merchant per type of good. They can then retrieve those 2 merchants and sell 2 whisky and 4 cheese at 13 and 14 pounds respectively to gain = 2*13 + 4*14= 26+56=82 pounds in total. So their net profit would be 45 pounds. They could pull this off in the first round if they use a port tile that gives some immediate income like 10 pounds. They would need to buy 4 merchants at 16 pounds (which they want to do quite early anyway).

2 player game:

14 pounds for 2 woodcutters at 7 each
16 pounds for 4 merchants
42 pounds for buying goods
1 production unit to leach neighborhood bonus
=68 pounds

you start with:
60 pounds, max. you can start with
10 pounds: sell 1 processed good
10 pound: port tile
= 80 pounds

The thing is that even if you look at other clans: they can either use the retrieving of 3 merchants to do high-speed trading in the first round or correct some mistake to buy a good they already bought in a later round or to simply have more trade volume. The latter 2 cases are rare and provide some value quite late in the game. The first use (high-speed trading) gives 9 pounds in the first round, which is worth a lot more than the other 2 uses in later rounds due to snowballing. If you invest X money in round 1, it is worth 150% in round 2, and so on. So when you invest 9 pounds in the first round it is worth about 45 pounds in the last round.

So even if the port tile looks cool at first glance I think most of the time it will result in players doing high-speed trading in the first round which is a complex variant of the 10 pound port tile. Also, it does not really affect market prices or other players.


 
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