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Subject: Potential content for an expansion rss

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Juma Al-JouJou
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1) 1VP per unit next to at least one loch space

I have a similar idea, namely 2 or even 3 vp per unit adjacent to the central loch, mostly because the port bonuses give enough incentive already to expand near the lochs in the corners.

Quote:
2) 2VP per landlocked unit

Yes, I like that one.

Quote:
3) 4VP per separate group of connected settlements

It is problematic if it shows up in the last round because it then contradicts the settlement scoring.

I have an idea for sth similar: 3 VP per settlement with at least 3 units. What do you think?

Quote:
1) Clear then refill the contracts area. (could be a bit too much 'Take that' to it though)

It might indeed be too confrontational but we could change it to:

Remove any contracts from the export refill board (that is sth that will likely be added to the expansion, I mentioned it earlier) and then refill.

What is interesting about this is that you dont want to use this port bonus shortly before another player.

Quote:
2) Change a contract you have for one on the display (this might have been mentioned earlier in the thread?)

I don't think this would be very useful.

Another idea for a port bonus I just had:

When you fulfill a contract which gives a rare import good, you receive 4 glory per rare import good immediately, you do NOT move the respective import marker and you then flip the contract (so you won't score the rare import good in the final scoring). What do you think?

Quote:
I was also thinking of a way to make contracts slightly less valuable, and something which changed the value of import goods from 5/4/3 to 4/3/2 might work. Although, I'm not sure exactly where that would fit in to the current systems.

My idea was to introduce historic events that happen between game rounds (reveiled at the beginning of the game). Such events could be that certain goods prices change (all processed goods' prices increase by 2 steps, taking an export contract costs 5 pounds more in the current round, etc.).

Another rough idea I had was to somehow introduce the processing or reexportation of rare import goods. Cotton could be used to produce textiles etc. or tabac could be reexported to mainland Europe. That would make the rare import goods more thematic, too. But I havent had a very good idea yet how to implement it.
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Mike Pye
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Quote:
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1) 1VP per unit next to at least one loch space

Quote:
I have a similar idea, namely 2 or even 3 vp per unit adjacent to the central loch, mostly because the port bonuses give enough incentive already to expand near the lochs in the corners.

Yeah I think emphasising the central loch is better!

Quote:
Quote:
3) 4VP per separate group of connected settlements

Quote:
It is problematic if it shows up in the last round because it then contradicts the settlement scoring.

I have an idea for sth similar: 3 VP per settlement with at least 3 units. What do you think?

I saw that one in your spreadsheet and liked it. I agree that this suggestion contradicts the end game scoring if it appears in the final round. That could give players interesting decisions though going forward (especially since they know it is coming well in advance). It would also appear in that position in a very small number of games I think (1/X chance where X is the number of port tiles available, if my Maths is correct)

Quote:
Quote:
1) Clear then refill the contracts area. (could be a bit too much 'Take that' to it though)

Quote:
It might indeed be too confrontational but we could change it to:

Remove any contracts from the export refill board (that is sth that will likely be added to the expansion, I mentioned it earlier) and then refill.

Aren't these the same thing?

Quote:
Another idea for a port bonus I just had:

When you fulfill a contract which gives a rare import good, you receive 4 glory per rare import good immediately, you do NOT move the respective import marker and you then flip the contract (so you won't score the rare import good in the final scoring). What do you think?

We always flip completed contracts to show they are done, so for us it might get mixed in with others (I am sure we would adapt though). It could also be possible to score 5 glory per rare good, and then discard the contract completely. This would mean you have to forego the hops points and an extra completed contract, but it guarantees that those rare goods get the best value.

Quote:
My idea was to introduce historic events that happen between game rounds (reveiled at the beginning of the game). Such events could be that certain goods prices change (all processed goods' prices increase by 2 steps, taking an export contract costs 5 pounds more in the current round, etc.).

Another rough idea I had was to somehow introduce the processing or reexportation of rare import goods. Cotton could be used to produce textiles etc. or tabac could be reexported to mainland Europe. That would make the rare import goods more thematic, too. But I havent had a very good idea yet how to implement it.

I like the idea of the events, although at the same time the game runs the risk of becoming too complex and adding in more AP. At the moment the game has a brilliant balance of interesting decisions, without overloading with too many factors.

For reexportation, the contracts could be separated into two sets, and of the 8 available (in a 4 player game), 6 come from the regular ones (that we have now), and 2 come from the new set. These new ones could have, for example, cotton as a requirement (I think this was discussed earlier in the thread). But in terms of 'discarding' the cotton to fulfil said contract, that means the player would have to have 2 cotton tokens of some kind, which means that rare goods would end up being visible to other players.


 
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Juma Al-JouJou
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I saw that one in your spreadsheet and liked it. I agree that this suggestion contradicts the end game scoring if it appears in the final round. That could give players interesting decisions though going forward (especially since they know it is coming well in advance). It would also appear in that position in a very small number of games I think (1/X chance where X is the number of port tiles available, if my Maths is correct)

The chance for this to happen is 20% when this port tile shows up.

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Aren't these the same thing?

No. This board will likely be added to the expansion
https://imgur.com/a/G0p3WDt

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We always flip completed contracts to show they are done

I would not do that because then you don't know which rare import goods the other players imported the most. Also, it aint needed. Any contracts not on your export box are fulfilled.

Quote:
which means that rare goods would end up being visible to other players.

I dont think so. You just have to be careful that your negative cotton never exceeds your positive cotton which is fairly easy. You simply place the negative cotton contract next to the positive cotton contracts.
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Mike Pye
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The chance for this to happen is 20% when this port tile shows up.

I was going with the combined 'it is chosen + is it in the 5th position'. As in, if there are 18 round scoring tiles available, the chance that the aforementioned tile is chosen and is also in the 5th position would be 1/18.

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No. This board will likely be added to the expansion
https://imgur.com/a/G0p3WDt

Ah ok - I thought you were referring to the export board from the base game!

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I would not do that because then you don't know which rare import goods the other players imported the most. Also, it aint needed. Any contracts not on your export box are fulfilled.

I see - we were playing that the information on completed contracts was hidden, so that should not be the case?
 
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Evan Scussel
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Pixel Hunter wrote:
I'm going to chime in on the box issue. Clans is a great game packed into a barely large-enough box. I purchased one of the wooden insert options for the game as well as the acrylic overlays for the player boards. These make game setup and teardown a snap, and help everything fit in the box without cramming and jiggling tons of baggies full of bits.

I can only imagine that ANY new components are not going to fit in the existing box, whether you use an insert or not. I dislike having a single game spread out in multiple boxes. And I just don't see any way around this. Which makes an expansion less attractive to me.

Perhaps if the expansion came in a box that is actually bigger than the existing box and would replace it as the new game box. Bonus points if the existing inserts for the current box could be transferred to the new box and an additional tray(s) could accommodate the new components.

The Clans box is great if you are selling the game (as it can fit into a smaller box) or if you are buying a game at a con and don't have a ton of room in your luggage coming back. But otherwise, I agree with you. The Clans box is too small for all the content in this game and I would like to see the game go the Trickerion route with a Collectors Edition box if they did launch an expansion.
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Evan Scussel
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I would not do that because then you don't know which rare import goods the other players imported the most. Also, it aint needed. Any contracts not on your export box are fulfilled.

I've only played the game twice, but in both my plays, all players just placed the current unfulfilled contract on top of a stack of fulfilled ones. This keeps the information about who has imported the rare goods hidden. I actually didn't know that information was public until now.

I like the idea of scoring 4VP immediately for rare goods. That would work great late in the game when you know the good you are importing is going to end up as the one most imported.
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Eric C

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Owen134866 wrote:
Am hoping to convince some friends of mine to try out the new clans and ideas sometime in the new year, will feedback when we get round to it!

In the meantime, I had a few ideas, clearly completely untested and possibly not balanced...

Round scoring bonuses

1) 1VP per unit next to at least one loch space

--> so if a unit is adjacent to several loch spaces, it is still only 1 point

2) 2VP per landlocked unit

--> units which are not adjacent to any rivers or lochs

3) 4VP per separate group of connected settlements

as in, if all your settlements are connected, it would be 4VP. If you have 2 groups of settlements which are not connected to each other, it would be 8VP. It might encourage the 'expand with animals and then slaughter' strategy to create separate groups of settlements. Could also be very interesting if it comes out late in the game.

Port bonuses

1) Clear then refill the contracts area. (could be a bit too much 'Take that' to it though)

2) Change a contract you have for one on the display (this might have been mentioned earlier in the thread?)

I was also thinking of a way to make contracts slightly less valuable, and something which changed the value of import goods from 5/4/3 to 4/3/2 might work. Although, I'm not sure exactly where that would fit in to the current systems.



I like your three ideas, especially the first two. I looked at the map and I think neither would be too powerful and it would be up to other players to not let one player get too many Lochs spaces. (could the Mcdonald-fisherman use this bonus somehow do you think?)
I think the third should be maybe- "4vp per settlements of 3 or more units with no lochs." (If no limit, may be too easy- No lochs Otherwise counting could be a challenge)

 
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Eric C

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Innovatormentor wrote:
Quote:
1) 1VP per unit next to at least one loch space

I have a similar idea, namely 2 or even 3 vp per unit adjacent to the central loch, mostly because the port bonuses give enough incentive already to expand near the lochs in the corners.

Quote:
2) 2VP per landlocked unit

Yes, I like that one.

Quote:
3) 4VP per separate group of connected settlements

It is problematic if it shows up in the last round because it then contradicts the settlement scoring.

I have an idea for sth similar: 3 VP per settlement with at least 3 units. What do you think?

Quote:
1) Clear then refill the contracts area. (could be a bit too much 'Take that' to it though)

It might indeed be too confrontational but we could change it to:

Remove any contracts from the export refill board (that is sth that will likely be added to the expansion, I mentioned it earlier) and then refill.

What is interesting about this is that you dont want to use this port bonus shortly before another player.

Quote:
2) Change a contract you have for one on the display (this might have been mentioned earlier in the thread?)

I don't think this would be very useful.

Another idea for a port bonus I just had:

When you fulfill a contract which gives a rare import good, you receive 4 glory per rare import good immediately, you do NOT move the respective import marker and you then flip the contract (so you won't score the rare import good in the final scoring). What do you think?

Quote:
I was also thinking of a way to make contracts slightly less valuable, and something which changed the value of import goods from 5/4/3 to 4/3/2 might work. Although, I'm not sure exactly where that would fit in to the current systems.

My idea was to introduce historic events that happen between game rounds (reveiled at the beginning of the game). Such events could be that certain goods prices change (all processed goods' prices increase by 2 steps, taking an export contract costs 5 pounds more in the current round, etc.).

Another rough idea I had was to somehow introduce the processing or reexportation of rare import goods. Cotton could be used to produce textiles etc. or tabac could be reexported to mainland Europe. That would make the rare import goods more thematic, too. But I havent had a very good idea yet how to implement it.

I don't like the suggestion to make contracts less powerful, I think it goes against the theme and competition of the game.

I like the idea of random events that may happen each round that affect players (weather related drought, stock market (goods market) crash, etc.

 
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Sorry if I'm late to the party so to speak.

I just wanted to comment on the solo aspect. While an Automa would be nice, I thought that the current solo worked well. What I think it needs in addition to the points is some sort of pass/fail goal.

For example, to win, you need to score 125 points and score at least 12 from settlements (finish with at least 11).

Another option would be score X points but you can't build certain buildings/animals etc... or you have a limit due to some "game condition".

You could also link it to using less than all 4 boards. Maybe the first scenario of a "campaign" you only use 1 board since your clan is weak, and as you move along the path you use more boards as a representation of your clan growing in strength and power over the region.

Also sorry if this was all said before, I skimmed over the comments and may have missed it.
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Daniel Andersson
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I just got the game but am already excited for the expansion!
How´s the progress going? Is there an ETA for the release?
 
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Ramalingam Raghavan
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Just wanted to the mention that the buying and selling space of the market is really confusing.. we tend to place in out nearest spot..Any plans of differentiating it
 
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Rene Raps
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rams1984 wrote:
Just wanted to the mention that the buying and selling space of the market is really confusing. We tend to place in out nearest spot. Any plans of differentiating it?
Well there IS the word "SELL" on the market board. Then "PURCHASE" must mean "BUY". That certainly would be better in my opinion.

The confusing + sign at the sell-side just means that there will be more goods on the market when you sell stuff.
And more items of that stuff on the market lowers it's price.
It's just the principle of supply and demand.

Hence, there is no need to change the market board.

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Ramalingam Raghavan
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A few more suggestions...

Similar to Animal Clan but slightly different

SHEARING/MILKING- Clan
- During the production phase whenever you produce 2 wool or 2 milk you produce one additional good. (Efficient in shearing and milking).

If you produce 4 wool/milk u get 3 additional.

SHIPPING/PORT Clan

- As long as they are close to any one port they have access to all. And they can take the port bonuses TWICE during the game.

FARMING Clan

- Grain fields costs less -4, -6, -6 and -8 respectively and produce 1 more either combined or separated.

The numbers can be adjusted...

Regarding Contracts randomization - Can they be identified like A/B/C

like so that whenever you fill up contracts there area always a even mix of As/Bs & Cs which are more or less balanced when it comes to contract availability with repsect to goods.

MARKET VARIANT-

When trading 3 or more goods-

The price drops by an additional step when selling 3 or more. Surplus
The price rises by an additional step when buying 3 or more Scarce



 
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Ramalingam Raghavan
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Played today again. All the opening contracts had meat in them, which was difficult.and the contract board never got new ones until round 4..Hope something can be done... to prevent them being too random...

Guess atleast the meats n the rest are seaprated. As and Bs.. and the ocntract board having a equal distribution of As n Bs
 
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One of the best things about this game is that it all fits into a relatively small box. I hope that the expansion is small enough that everything still fits into the base box.
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Christian Müller
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last week I finished my 30th play against my wife... still our favorite game for over a year an a half now. I thought it would be great if there was an expansion that just adds a sixth and or seventh (whatever) round with with new content. Like Uwe Rosenberg did with the two player Caverna I believe... first letting you play the game as usual (even scoring) but then the expansion lets you play on under new conditions.
 
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Roger S
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ComtriS wrote:
One of the best things about this game is that it all fits into a relatively small box. I hope that the expansion is small enough that everything still fits into the base box.

Boy that would be a tight squeeze. Mine doesn't have a lot of extra space in there as it is. And if there was an insert at one point, (I don't remember) it's long gone now.
 
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schiavonir wrote:
ComtriS wrote:
One of the best things about this game is that it all fits into a relatively small box. I hope that the expansion is small enough that everything still fits into the base box.

Boy that would be a tight squeeze. Mine doesn't have a lot of extra space in there as it is. And if there was an insert at one point, (I don't remember) it's long gone now.

There's not room for a large expansion with a ton of changes, no. But a small expansion, with some additional clans, contracts, maybe map tiles -- should be no problem.
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Scott Dirrane
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I know I’m very late to the Caledonia craze. I have a bigger gaming group and would love a 5-6 player expansion. Maybe with some triangle shaped additions to add to the East and West sides of the game.

Another cool thing would be some kind of building expansion with some kind of on going bonus when built.
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Murdoch Steven
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Expansion idea: New unit to build --> Golf courses

According to Wikipedia, the modern game of Golf was first played in 15th century Scotland. So thematically, this makes sense. Afterall, all those wealthy Scottish Clans need something entertaining to spend their money on.

The idea:

Golf courses can be built on any green hex, similar to the other non-worker units. (I have no idea how much golf courses should cost, but I imagine that they cost an ever growing amount of money. For example, first golf course costs 10 pounds, second cost 15, third 20, and fourth 25)

Rules:

You can only build one golf course per connected settlement (because each settlement only had enough demand for one golf course from its workers). For each golf course, you get 3 pounds during production from the bank for each of your OWN workers connected to your golf course and 5 pounds from each OPPONENT for each of their workers.

If two settlements, each with a golf course, are connected by a future build action then the player with the most workers gets to keep the course. The player with the least workers has to remove the golf course from the game. If the players are tied for workers, then both players remove their golf courses from the game. By removing the golf courses from the game, future builds will be more expensive.

An overbuild action of your own piece could also make sense. A player would have to pay a premium (e.g. 2x land cost) to place a golf course on a hex occupied by their own unit. This would be an interesting twist and the only way (except for slaughtering) to move units back to your player mat.

Scoring of Golf courses:

Perhaps each worker connected to a golf course is worth a certain number of points at the end of the game. For example: 1 worker=1VP, 2 workers=3VPs, 3 workers=5VPs, 4 workers=7VPs, 5 workers=9VPs, max 6 workers=12VPs

Benefits:

1. This would increase player interaction on the map and force players to think ever more about where and how to expand.
2. There is no need to change the market board, since Golf courses are a new type of unit.
3. Players have a means to interrupt other players economics.
4. It's kinda like fighting, but with golf clubs, not swords (which is fun).
5. Since the threat that a player's Golf course could be removed, it will force people to think about where & how to build because it could impact their settlement scoring.


Anyway, these are all rough ideas so it would be cool to hear people's thoughts.

Cheers!
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Jomppe
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I like the idea of new type of building that can provide more VP than regular buildings. Not big deal for me what they are, anything goes: Golf courses, villages, cities..

The reason I like this is that VP building could give a new type strategy: Focus on buildings rather than contracts for VP. I feel now you have to focus on contracts to stay competetive. I would love a possibility to focus less on contracts and more on buildings (or something else) for source of VP.
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Preet Tohvi
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PineCone92 wrote:
I like the idea of new type of building that can provide more VP than regular buildings. Not big deal for me what they are, anything goes: Golf courses, villages, cities..

The reason I like this is that VP building could give a new type strategy: Focus on buildings rather than contracts for VP. I feel now you have to focus on contracts to stay competetive. I would love a possibility to focus less on contracts and more on buildings (or something else) for source of VP.

I agree with all of this; I like being able to build a variety of things (and upgrading the buildings I have), and it would be nice to score more points that way. ("Golf courses" does sound a bit silly to me, when the rest is farming-related, but it could be named anything.)
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Murdoch Steven
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Preet wrote:
[q="PineCone92"]"Golf courses" does sound a bit silly to me, when the rest is farming-related, but it could be named anything.


At first blush Golf courses may sound silly, but really I think they are a fun and relevant. Where I am from (east coast US), there is this ever present idea (or threat?) as to whether farm land should be converted to either i) Golf courses or ii) additional housing/neighborhoods. The basic thought being, what is the best economic use for such land?

When you combine this with the fact that Scotland invented what we consider modern day Golf, I think it makes for a fun expansion to Clans of Caledonia. Do you pursue farming/production or scrap that and start building golf courses?

The Golf courses would create an additional VP path and they would allow a player to build over an already placed production unit (a new and interesting strategic decision).

Plus, the Clans all appear to be wealthy, so why not allow them to spend some of their hard earned cash on a luxury such as golf

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Rich
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@Juma,
Love the game. Some friends and I were discussing it recently. It seems the selection of your opening contract can be an area where newer people can falter in the game. It is often important to pick a contract that you can complete quickly. Sometimes an early draw of poor contract options can slow things down for everyone. While this does make that contract selection more skillful it could stagnate things as well. Have you considered as part of an expansion a set of easy to complete contracts that are the ones that are first seeded to the contract board? You could then just fill from the normal stack.
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Juma Al-JouJou
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richcottrell wrote:
@Juma,
Love the game. Some friends and I were discussing it recently. It seems the selection of your opening contract can be an area where newer people can falter in the game. It is often important to pick a contract that you can complete quickly. Sometimes an early draw of poor contract options can slow things down for everyone. While this does make that contract selection more skillful it could stagnate things as well. Have you considered as part of an expansion a set of easy to complete contracts that are the ones that are first seeded to the contract board? You could then just fill from the normal stack.

I considered this for the base game but consciously decided against it. I don't think it fits an expansion so well since most people who play an expansion have played the base game numerous times so there is not so much need to reduce the challenge. Thank you for posting your idea, though.
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