Kip Kwiatkowski
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I was just looking at the thread about Starting character at a high Prosperity and it got me thinking.

Currently when starting a new character:
Take all level 1 and X cards, then for each level you would increase choose one card from the pool that would have been available for that level.

I got to thinking that a new character would be a fresh newbie from the guild (the thematic for enhancements), in theory couldn't the guild have taught from all available learned moves?

So instead:
Take all X cards, then from the remaining cards that would be available at your max level select (Hand + (L-1)) cards.

For example, the Cragheart
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You could take L7 Brutal Momentum instead of Heaving Swing right from the start.


Which would open up another slot in your Active Pool.



I'm trying to think how broken this would be. My thought is that it would open up MORE build options and versatility, since you wouldn't be locked in to dross you normally picked up at L1.
 
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Jason Vogelpohl
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As always, play the game however you want.

I don't know how this would affect the game exactly, but I will say that the game isn't balanced such that you can have more higher level cards. In general a level 7 card is going to be better than an X card so if you're able to take both level 7 cards at level 7, for example, you're more powerful than a standard level 7 character. Or however you're doing it exactly. You'll want to increase difficulty probably unless you're looking for an easier play through.
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Carsten Neumann
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tuvineo wrote:
As always, play the game however you want.

I don't know how this would affect the game exactly, but I will say that the game isn't balanced such that you can have more higher level cards. In general a level 7 card is going to be better than an X card so if you're able to take both level 7 cards at level 7, for example, you're more powerful than a standard level 7 character. Or however you're doing it exactly. You'll want to increase difficulty probably unless you're looking for an easier play through.


My thoughts, too.
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Matt Rossi
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You don't just have to take cards that are of your new level when you level up (So a level 7 character would have All 1 and X cards, plus one card from levels 2-7). You can also take lower level cards (At level 8 you can take your second level 7 card instead). Leveling up a new starting character with high prosperity is essentially leveling one at a time, so it's not possible according to the RAW to set up a character that has only high level cards and no lower level cards.

You can house rule anything you want, but being able to take multiple high level cards at no penalty will make your class more powerful than intended.

I've been quite happy with the choices the game has offered at most levels, even if that choice is between two niche higher level cards that don't work with my build or a moderately powerful lower level card that does. Classes in Gloomhaven are designed to have flexibility. You don't have to make one "kit" and always use it without any variations between scenarios. Some classes are less flexible than others, but even the Scoundrel has variability in how you play the character depending on enemy types and party composition.
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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Yes, I know.

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Yes, I know it would be advisable to turn up difficulty probably.
 
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Matt Rossi
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kgk4569 wrote:
Yes, I know.

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Yes, I know it would be advisable to turn up difficulty probably.


I don't think there will be many obviously broken things aside from maybe having too many cards that retrieve exiled cards in addition to the powerful cards they were meant to be compared to.

With respect to difficulty, there are people who already play at +2 and find little challenge. That being said, as long as you're having fun it doesn't really matter. It's your game, not a competition.
 
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Jason Vogelpohl
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WarioMCP wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:
Yes, I know.

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Yes, I know it would be advisable to turn up difficulty probably.


I don't think there will be many obviously broken things aside from maybe having too many cards that retrieve exiled cards in addition to the powerful cards they were meant to be compared to.

With respect to difficulty, there are people who already play at +2 and find little challenge. That being said, as long as you're having fun it doesn't really matter. It's your game, not a competition.


I agree with this. I don't think there's anything super 'broken' because the cards aren't really broken. You would have access to potentially more powerful combos though.

Like level 6 Mindthief has 2 great options. If you can have both of those at level 6 you're just better than another level 6 mindthief. Plus then at level 7 you could still take a level 7 card. I don't know any combinations off the top of my head that would be completely broken though.
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Alejandro
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Depends on the class, as others have said you will be more powerful than a character of that level, you might also be able to do some combinations that are not normally possible (for example take both level 3s and no level 2 cards), taking it to the extreme you could become incredibly more powerful (example level 9 class taking all level 6, 7, 8 and 9 cards).

I would advice against it, specially because at higher prosperity levels the game is already easier and pretty doable even at the very hard difficulty. If you don't want the challenge and prefer a shorter game and have more fun with an OP build go for it.
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Des T.
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kgk4569 wrote:

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Circles.
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Circles.


Ah, that is about to unlock too. :/
 
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kgk4569 wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Circles.


Ah, that is about to unlock too. :/


Out of curiosity, at what level?
 
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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ExPat wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:

I am just trying to figure out any examples of it being very broken. To see if there is any seriously OP examples.

Circles.


Ah, that is about to unlock too. :/


Out of curiosity, at what level?


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I think it'd be difficult to find situations that are "broken" with this, because technically, you can have a character with both Level 7 cards, for instance (you would just have to sacrifice your choice at Level 8 or 9). You would not be able to take both Level 9 cards, under any circumstances.

That said, while you won't find anything obviously broken, starting a Level 1 character with a Level 7 card is giving that character the most impactful benefit of leveling up. Basically, it'd be equivalent of that character being maybe Level 5 or so, but you're doing the calculations for Scenario Level with it at Level 1. If you wanted to do this, I think you'd just have to bump the scenario level up a couple times to make up for it.

Thematically, the "guild" is the explanation people give for enhancements. It is not used as an explanation for higher level cards. Those abilities come only from actual lived experience, whether that is XP gained through play or by starting at a higher level (implicitly having done enough stuff to gain XP, just out of sight of the main party until it joined). It's not that a guild can teach a Level 1 Cragheart how to drop a Meteor on the ground, but the guild can teach Craghearts who know how to drop Meteors how to make them more powerful.
 
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Dexter345 wrote:

...Thematically, the "guild" is the explanation people give for enhancements...


I feel the need to stress "people" in this. I don't recall an official explanation. For all we know, it might also be the new character having taken pointers from (or sparring with) the retired one while he still hung out at the lion, and thus improving upon some abilities.
 
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:

...Thematically, the "guild" is the explanation people give for enhancements...


I feel the need to stress "people" in this. I don't recall an official explanation. For all we know, it might also be the new character having taken pointers from (or sparring with) the retired one while he still hung out at the lion, and thus improving upon some abilities.


Yes, I guess me saying "guild" was an overly simplified version of saying "whatever in-world mechanic allows new characters to gain knowledge the previous incarnation posessed".
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