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Red Alert: Space Fleet Warfare» Forums » General

Subject: Can this game be more Spaceshipey? rss

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David Bostwick
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And, yes, of course that’s word.

So reread the rules again and I think there are opportunities to make this more of a space ship game, instead of a battlefield game with a space theme, without adding a lot of complexity.

The posted rules do say draft, so that means there can still be changes.

Some suggestions (in no particular order):

Firing Arcs:

Ships/Squadrons must always face a hex side.
Long ranged fire through the fore or aft 60 degree arc is reduced by 1 die since broadside weapons can’t be brought to bear.
Does not apply to fighters.

Engine Vulnerability:

Ships/Squadrons must always face a hex side.
Ships with Superior Shielding have that ability reduced by 1 for damage arriving from the aft 60 degree arc.
Does not apply to fighters.

Momentum:

Ships/Squadrons must always face a hex side.
At the start of each players turn, all of his ships must move ahead 1 hex or Stop.
When a Stopped ship is attacked, the attacker rolls 1 extra die.
A ship which is Stopped does not move again in the Momentum phase until an order card sets it in motion again.
Does not apply to fighters.

This rule will require the addition of Stopped tokens to keep track of the effect.
It also offers the opportunity for additional cards effects along the lines of: “Play on a friendly ship, targets hit by this ship become Stopped, in addition to other damage”

In fact, the Retire concept could be changed to Stopped if that was desirable. I wouldn’t care to say if that was a good idea or not without some play experience, but I’ll put it out there for consideration.

Turn Rate:

Ships/Squadrons must always face a hex side.
When a ship is moved, it must always move into one of the front 3 hexes. When moving to the front hexes to either side of center, a ship can turn 60 degrees to a new heading, or slip to the side to retain the same heading.
A ship can give up its entire move order to remain in the same hex and turn to face any direction.
Does not apply to fighters.

Space is Big:

Friendly Ships/Squadrons/Fighters can pass through each other.
I would also say they could be in the same hex, but I suspect practicality says otherwise, unless the hexes are really big.

Fight your ship:

Ships/Squadrons/Fighters which are engaged in Close Quarters Combat (adjacent) can attack with out an order card.



All of this is an attempt to add more distinction to this game relative to other games in the series. Previous games in the series can leave units static for long periods which is far more suitable to infantry/armor combat than space combat which has little or no terrain. The addition of some type on maneuver, and the need for it, along with continuous movement will make for a much more dynamic game.

I realize this adds a bit of complexity, and substantially changes game play (and may cause balance issues with scenarios that will have to be worked out), but I think it is worth considering.
Perhaps there could be an advanced rules or optional rules page?

Anyone else thinking along these lines?
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Kent Reuber
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I plan to use the minis for Starmada or Full Thrust.
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Kevin Duke
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Have you ever played a Commands and Colors game before?
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David Bostwick
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Yes
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Todd Warnken
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Some good ideas. I think they could be good additions to the game.
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Steve Carroll
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I like a lot of these ideas. Spaceshipey goodness.
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Minot
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Zarquon wrote:

I realize this adds a bit of complexity, and substantially changes game play (and may cause balance issues with scenarios that will have to be worked out), but I think it is worth considering.
Perhaps there could be an advanced rules or optional rules page?

Anyone else thinking along these lines?


I totally disagree with most of these, and seeing that level of unnecessary and debilitating complexity tacked on to the game would make me want my KS money back. This is a fleet command, not a ship command game. Assuming these fleets are not stuck in strict line ahead formations, these kind of details are the purview of individual ship captains, not admirals in charge of fleets (i.e. the player) or squadrons/divisions (i.e. the in game units).

As to the thought that fog of war mechanics which well replicate conditions in land warfare may not translate to space warfare, well, I sort of agree . . . in the sense we have no idea what futuristic space warefare would look like. However, assuming that just because there is no "terrain" in space (which sort of ignores asteroids, planets, etc.) there is no fog and friction of war, is problematic. If you assume naval warfare is the closest analogue to space warfare, there are plenty of examples of ships and squadrons sailing in the wrong direction, firing at the wrong target, or failing to engage when expected (or at all). A space game where parts of the fleet are not optimally engage is certainly no more "unrealistic" than any other model.
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Steve Carroll
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For less crowded hexes and less ships to paint, cannot these rules be used for individual ships and not fleets? A marker for hits/quality of ship rather than using three or four ships in a squadron would play the same, wouldn't it? Then it could make more sense to add individual ship maneuver and facing rules (yes, some more complexity).

Although we don't know for sure what such combat will be like, everyone is probably drawn to games that represent what that player thinks things may be (or were) like. That is why we don't all buy the same games, and house rule ones we do get. The C&C games are great for modifying.
 
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Jon Snow
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meeple It isn't either/or, but depends on what kind of game you want. I think Richard would be the first one to say "have fun with it in your own way." Personally, I first like to play a new design as written. But we've got 8 months to work on variants!
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Barry Kendall
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Richard seems to enjoy people coming up with additional ideas for his games; he's comfortable enough in his own skin as a designer not to feel threatened by such things. He simply likes it when people get excited about one of his games and have fun with it.

I got to talk with him a little at a recent con, and he spoke a bit about future prospects for the "Red Alert" concept. There is another spacefaring race in the plan, at least one.

There is also the prospect of some of these spaceships transporting things that fight in another theater of interstellar war. Let the imagination start running . . . .
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Jon Snow
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Are you talking about Ground Combat, as has been previously hinted at?
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Minot
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Could be interesting, especially since his MechWarrior-esqe Abaddon did not take off.
 
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Jon Snow
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meeple Just an update that a few people that have been play testing lately are suggesting not to start out with all the stuff we'll get in the Kickstarter, so you don't get overwhelmed. Therefore I don't think I'll be adding any variant rules right out of the box!
 
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