John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
Find a friend and get the Concrete Plant working!

The cards above the red line are the Marketplace



https://pf.fantasticfactories.com/puzzle?cardIDs=%5B%22clo%2...

This puzzle, like the real game, starts at the Market Phase
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Helmut Winkler
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmb
Great, that the adventures goes on. But for some reason I'm not able to get the Conrecte Plant not working. cry
Sure that everyting is correct?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
Just checked again, and all should be correct. Tried to make it not too easy...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Helmut Winkler
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmb
I admit, I surrender (for now). For those who are interested here are my thoughts:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

So let's see: For the Concrete Plant I need metal, and I can only get metal from the Foundry. Refinery does not work since I have no blueprint (and there is no chance to get one, because Research is not available and Laboratory comes to late if used).
On the other hand the Conrete Plant takes 2 dice with the same value and the Foundry needs a die too.
So in total we need 3 dice, and I guess the starting die is not one of them. This leads to the needed use of the Golem, the Robot and the Robot (from the marketplace thanks to the Replicator).
From my available factories only the Trade School is left and that is every time my starting point in conjunction with the Power Plant to get energy for running everything else.

0. Start -> (#1 2E)
1. Trade School -> (#6 1E)
2. Power Plant -> (7E)
3. Golem -> (#3 4E)
4. Foundry -> (1E 3M)
5. Robot -> (#? 1E 2M)
6. Replicator aka Robot -> (#? #? 1E 1M)

But the chances to get in both rols a 1 is not very high?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
As Justin Faulkner told me in the comments on KS:

Quote:
Most (all?) puzzles should have at least one "trick". Usually I decide what the trick is first, and then work backwards from there to compose the puzzle.
I did the same for this puzzle.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The "trick" here is, how to get the metal. There are two obvious ways:
- To use the Refinery, you need a Blueprint.
- To use the Foundry, you need a specific die.

So you need to find a way to get either one or the other to proceed. The other "way" is only used for distraction.
Additionally, you need two dice for the Concrete Plant.

You are correct, that you need the starting die to generate Energy, using the Power Plant.

Though it is not shown, you could always use the Player board to get a Blueprint - but you would also need an extra die for it.

Nonetheless - there is a way to get the two #1 with a 100% chance. The "trick" to achieve it was never used before in any puzzle though (as far as I remember).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dylan Thurston
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm also stumped. Here's a proof you can't do it, at least not starting by generating Energy.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Lemma. To generate Metal before generating a Good, you need to use a die.
Proof. The ways to generate a Metal are (a) Foundry, (b) Refinery, and (c) Mine on the player board. (a) and (c) require a die directly. (b) requires a Blueprint. The ways to generate a Blueprint are (i) Research and (ii) Laboratory(M). Laboratory requires generating a Good first, and Research requires a die. QED

If, as you say, we need one Die to generate Energy with the Power Plant, then we therefore need one Die for Power Plant, one Die for Metal in one way or another, and two Dice for the Concrete Plant, for a total of four Dice. We start with one Die and can generate at most three Dice, with Golem, Robot, and Robot(M) [in the Marketplace]. We therefore need to use the Replicator to duplicate the Robot in the Marketplace.

Therefore the only die-manipulating power available to us is the Trade School, and we also need at least 3 Metal. We therefore cannot use the Foundry on the initial 1, so we have to use either the Golem or the Trade School before using either Robot [to get a Die to generate the Metal]. Either way doesn't work: If we use the Golem, then we need to use the results of both Robots on the Concrete Plant, and we only have one die-manipulating power; we might roll a 5 and a 6, and would not have enough Metal even if we managed to, say, turn it into two 5's. If we use the Trade School, then we are out of die manipulation power and again might not roll doubles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dylan Thurston
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Helmut, you can do a little better in your proposal:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Quote:
0. Start -> (#1 2E)
1. Trade School -> (#6 1E)
2. Power Plant -> (7E)
3. Golem -> (#3 4E)
4. Foundry -> (1E 3M)
There's no need to generate a #3. You could generate a #1, then use Research:

0. Start -> (#1 2E)
1. Trade School -> (#6 1E)
2. Power Plant -> (7E)
3. Golem -> (#1 6E)
4. Research -> (1B 6E)
5. Refinery -> (3E 3M)
6. Robot -> (#? 3E 2M)
7. Replicator + Robot -> (#? #? 2E 1M)

You end up with 2 more Energy that way, but of course it doesn't help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Helmut Winkler
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmb
I had one solution I haven't posted which used Research, to test my options. But since the Player Board is not shown I considered it not being necessary for solving the puzzle.

Tomorrow at work I retest all options to see if any combination will go, but I doubt it currently.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
Following are some hints. First ones are rather general, last ones are pointing more or less to the solution. Open at you own risk...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Manipulating dice is very important.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Depending on your strategy, there are up to two cards, which can be used for the Replicator to solve the puzzle.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
There are three ways to generate metal in this puzzle:
Dylan Thurston wrote:
The ways to generate a Metal are (a) Foundry, (b) Refinery, and (c) Mine on the player board.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The second robot is a distraction.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
You should consider focussing on getting more die-manipulating cards.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Foundry is very useful - as a distraction.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Only two dice need to be generated.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
You can use either Trade School or Cloning Factory for the Replicator to set the Robot die to #1.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Dylan Thurston wrote:
The ways to generate a Blueprint are (i) Research and (ii) Laboratory(M). Laboratory requires generating a Good first, and Research requires a die.
Actually - there is a THIRD way to get a Blueprint.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you already had played the real game, the puzzle surely would be easier.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Though men normally don't do this, you should read the Rulebook of the game.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The rule in question is found on page 3 under "Market Phase".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dylan Thurston
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Munuel1st wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The rule in question is found on [REDACTED]
So this raises a question...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Exactly when are these puzzles supposed to start? All the previous puzzles I've seen start from the Work Phase. Now, they aren't actually plausible starts of the Work Phase, since you always a bonus from the Market Phase, but of course this particular puzzle is implausible in other ways too, namely in having only one die to work with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
That is a good and legitimate question.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Up till now, in my opinion, it was not really defined, at what phase the puzzles start. Additionally, there are very few puzzles even using the Marketplace, which enabled the puzzler to take the free Blueprint card from the Market Phase and use it.

I would agree though with definitely defining the Work Phase as the starting phase of the puzzles from now on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Helmut Winkler
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmb
Thanks for taking the time of writing all the hints.

Personally I never considered to use the option (even I know the game), but now I can find a solution:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

0. Start -> (#1 2E)
1. Using the Market Phase I take the Laborartory to gain a blueprint -> (#1 2E 1C)
2. Golem -> (#1 #1 1E 1C)
3. Trade School -> (#1 #6 1C)
4. Power Plant -> (#1 6E 1C)
5. Refinery -> (#1 3E 3M)
6. Robot -> (#? #1 3E 2M)
7. Replicator as Cloning Facility -> (#1 #1 2M) *only needed if we don't roll a #1)
8. Concrete Plant -> (1M 2G)


For the next puzzles:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Since there was nothing said and everybody started from the Work Phase I would go the Work Phase as start.
If not it should be clearly stated at the beginning of the puzzle even if it makes it easier.


Looking forward to Episode 3
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dylan Thurston
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd say it still makes a good puzzle even with the hint revealed in Helmut's "for the next puzzles" spoiler.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
Agreed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Doe
msg tools
mbmbmb
vurtan wrote:
Looking forward to Episode 3
Looking forward to someone solve the puzzle of Episode 3
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls