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Subject: Web App for Line of Sight rss

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Daniel Nelson
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I've updated my Monster Mover web app to display line of sight as well.


You can find the app at this URL: http://gloom.aluminumangel.org

To use the app for line of sight, follow these steps:
1. Click the button Show Line of Sight to turn on line of sight.
- This button can be found to the lower-right of the map.
2. Unclick the button Show Movement to stop the app from solving for monster movement.
3. Place an Active Monster on the board.
4. Add Walls and Wall Lines.
5. The monster's line of sight will display in blue.


You can have the app simply start in line-of-sight mode by using this URL: http://gloom.aluminumangel.org/los
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Andrew K
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Very neat!

Not sure if this feature exists or not, but would it be possible to pre-populate the map by selecting a scenario (/ room?) and the number of players?
 
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Karn
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I've been waiting for the LoS addition.
Love it, thanks a lot!
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Dave Dave
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Please forgive my ignorance, I am not very well versed in the rules of Gloomhaven. A friend of mine usually just tells me what works and what doesn't.
As far as I know LoS is checked by testing if a straight line can be drawn from any corner of a hex to any other corner of another hex?

Shouldn't the monster in your example be able to see the player?

 
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Martin Sjöstrand
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dave42 wrote:
Shouldn't the monster in your example be able to see the player?



No, since the corner on the hex with the character (that you have drawn a straight line to) shares the corner with a wall. The straight line can't touch a wall at any point. The grey hexes are walls.
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J Re
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Please share this on the Gloomhaven subreddit as well, this tool is amazing! Thanks for taking the time to create and share!
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J Re
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Quick question, how does this layout let the monster attack the characters, whereas the above examples, it doesn't?
 
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J Re
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Sorry for the image spam, but if you pick a different corner in your example, it looks like the LOS won't hit the wall.
 
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thespaceinvader -
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ihasaflavour wrote:
Sorry for the image spam, but if you pick a different corner in your example, it looks like the LOS won't hit the wall.

It touches the wall where it leaves the monster.
 
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J Re
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thespaceinvader wrote:
ihasaflavour wrote:
Sorry for the image spam, but if you pick a different corner in your example, it looks like the LOS won't hit the wall.

It touches the wall where it leaves the monster.


Where it leaves the monster? Is that in the rules, because I thought it only cared about a corner of a tile, to a corner of a tile. In the example I posted, the green line won't touch the wall.
 
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Karn
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ihasaflavour wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:
ihasaflavour wrote:
Sorry for the image spam, but if you pick a different corner in your example, it looks like the LOS won't hit the wall.

It touches the wall where it leaves the monster.


Where it leaves the monster? Is that in the rules, because I thought it only cared about a corner of a tile, to a corner of a tile.


Except when the corner of a tile also shares the corner of a wall.
Quote:
All ranged and melee attacks can only be performed against enemies within
line-of-sight, which means that a line can be drawn from any corner of the attacker’s hex to any
corner of the defender’s hex without touching any part of a wall

Most people interpret this as a wall interrupting the line of sight before it reaches the corner of the targets hex; however, it's equally valid if the corner of the targets hex also shares a corner with the wall.


Sometimes it doesn't make sense logically (like the example you're refuting where the wall is flat and is in no way visually impeding the character), but them's the rules!
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J Re
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Karnageddon wrote:
ihasaflavour wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:
ihasaflavour wrote:
Sorry for the image spam, but if you pick a different corner in your example, it looks like the LOS won't hit the wall.

It touches the wall where it leaves the monster.


Where it leaves the monster? Is that in the rules, because I thought it only cared about a corner of a tile, to a corner of a tile.


Except when the corner of a tile also shares the corner of a wall.
Quote:
All ranged and melee attacks can only be performed against enemies within
line-of-sight, which means that a line can be drawn from any corner of the attacker’s hex to any
corner of the defender’s hex without touching any part of a wall

Most people interpret this as a wall interrupting the line of sight before it reaches the corner of the targets hex; however, it's equally valid if the corner of the targets hex also shares a corner with the wall.


Sometimes it doesn't make sense logically (like the example you're refuting where the wall is flat and is in no way visually impeding the character), but them's the rules!


Thanks for the feedback! So how does this make it different in my previous example? Is it becuase the monster isn't touching a wall tile?
 
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Martin Sjöstrand
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ihasaflavour wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! So how does this make it different in my previous example? Is it becuase the monster isn't touching a wall tile?


”Draw a line” from each corner of the monster hex to each corner of the character hex. (That's 36 lines in total) If atleast 1 of those lines can be drawn without it touching a wall at any point (including the starting and ending corners) then there is LOS.
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Karn
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So lets look at the example we're discussing first...

I've marked the (obstructed) corners sharing a wall as purple, corners with an obstructed line of sight as red and corners with a valid line of sight as green.

You can draw a line from the monster to either of the valid points, but in my example I'm just going to draw to the closest one.


In this example, there is no clear line of sight, because the only corner that would have been valid, is shared with a wall.


Now lets look at your original example...

Player 2 has a direct line of sight with the rightmost corner, player 1 on the other hand has 3 corners that have a valid line of sight.
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J Re
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Karnageddon wrote:
So lets look at the example we're discussing first...

I've marked the (obstructed) corners sharing a wall as purple, corners with an obstructed line of sight as red and corners with a valid line of sight as green.

You can draw a line from the monster to either of the valid points, but in my example I'm just going to draw to the closest one.


In this example, there is no clear line of sight, because the only corner that would have been valid, is shared with a wall.


Now lets look at your original example...

Player 2 has a direct line of sight with the rightmost corner, player 1 on the other hand has 3 corners that have a valid line of sight.


Talking to a buddy, and we came to this conclusion at the same time. Thanks so much.
 
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Daniel Nelson
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kielby wrote:
Very neat!

Thanks!

kielby wrote:
Not sure if this feature exists or not, but would it be possible to pre-populate the map by selecting a scenario (/ room?) and the number of players?

Totally possible. That's definitely on my todo list.
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Christian Barraza
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This first situation makes no sense of me though. If the map were just shapped slightly differently (the bottom wall tile was just a regular map tile), you could see thee whole hex no problem. But because that bottom hex happens to be a wall, you cant see the whole hex? Shouldn't it only concern the line itself, and not the end points?
 
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Daniel Frey
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Trackrise wrote:
This first situation makes no sense of me though. If the map were just shapped slightly differently (the bottom wall tile was just a regular map tile), you could see thee whole hex no problem. But because that bottom hex happens to be a wall, you cant see the whole hex? Shouldn't it only concern the line itself, and not the end points?

This is per Isaac's ruling and RAW, even though the result seems quite counter intuitive to many players. See the whole thread with Isaac's ruling (via Alex on p.5; he also suggests a "edge-to-edge" houserule as a way around the "problem" there) and also the discussion below this quiz item.
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Daniel Nelson
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I've considered adding a button that turns on certain popular house rules for players who do not play RAW. On my todo list.
 
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