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Subject: So drawn to this game, but I am so bad at it rss

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Joel Horo
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Race is my favorite game, and I feel it flows so naturally.

When I first played Roll, I really struggled, and even after perhaps 15 games, I still feel I am nowhere. I have zero intuition about where to lean, what to do. And yet I love the feeling of playing this game.

When I played Race, my evolution was as follows
- learn the various mechanism
- learn the different paths to victory: military / heavy development / consume-produce / hybrid, and how to implement them (i.e. when to explore, when to develop/settle, managing your hand, pushing your luck)
- meta-strategy, i.e. learn to switch between strategies when (1) you're not getting the cards you're looking for and (2) your adversary's strategy is going to change the pace of the game (i.e. trigger end-game early)

When I play Roll, I am still pretty much stuck at the first stage. Maybe I am just progressing slowly because I do not have an app that lets me play dozens of games per hours like for Race. Games on board game arena take more like 20 minutes, and I find the interface really not great.

So far I only played it live at a convention, and was planning to buy it soon so I can play with a friend of mine who enjoys it too. I'll probably play solo as well to get better with the different types of tiles - hopefully that'll improve my game.

Don't really have any specific questions, just wanted to rant... but advice is welcome.
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joelhoro wrote:
Race is my favorite game, and I feel it flows so naturally.

When I first played Roll, I really struggled, and even after perhaps 15 games, I still feel I am nowhere. I have zero intuition about where to lean, what to do. And yet I love the feeling of playing this game.

When I played Race, my evolution was as follows
- learn the various mechanism
- learn the different paths to victory: military / heavy development / consume-produce / hybrid, and how to implement them (i.e. when to explore, when to develop/settle, managing your hand, pushing your luck)
- meta-strategy, i.e. learn to switch between strategies when (1) you're not getting the cards you're looking for and (2) your adversary's strategy is going to change the pace of the game (i.e. trigger end-game early)

When I play Roll, I am still pretty much stuck at the first stage. Maybe I am just progressing slowly because I do not have an app that lets me play dozens of games per hours like for Race. Games on board game arena take more like 20 minutes, and I find the interface really not great.

So far I only played it live at a convention, and was planning to buy it soon so I can play with a friend of mine who enjoys it too. I'll probably play solo as well to get better with the different types of tiles - hopefully that'll improve my game.

Don't really have any specific questions, just wanted to rant... but advice is welcome.
I've only played this game average once a year or so soblue TBF, I've played many other great games in the meantime (so it's not like that lack of playing Roll was in vain), but it's still a game I'd like to get in more.


I ended up trying a demo of the game at a con twice with the first exp. (Ambitions) just so I could get in more plays of it. First without the Objective (tiles), 2nd time with. It was fun, but... I don't have the groups to get this played, so I just couldn't buy a copy. If the RGG guy was selling the app OTOH... that would've prompted a purchase.


Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to when they release this game with AI opponents, as that'll be my 'salvation'. In the meantime, note that you can play this game online against human opponents via BGA reread your post... you did mention this blush . And the strategy section for this game here at BGG should provide for good reads.


EDIT: related thread here....
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2029833/taking-free-sam...
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Barry
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This game is always about tactics vs strategy and knowing when to let one go to focus on the other. Strategy is having a long term plan. Tactics being the ability to make something work out of the undesirable outcome. The game is based on dice. So at some level you are at the mercy of what the dice roll. You then can build long term some control of those dice through choices you make on selecting which dice to pursue to add. Also you can choose reassign powers that can let you do your plan regardless of what you roll (within limits). So getting good at this game is a matter of knowing when to react to the dice and when you can manipulate the dice to do something you want.

General tactics/strategy rules:
1.Maximize your action economy
A. Try to make sure you have enough money to buy as many dice as you can without wasting money
B. Try not to lock dice up for too long on incomplete settlements and developments.
2.Play your opponent (or in a 2 player game the neutral die)
A. Sometimes it is really obvious what another player will do (They need money for example, or they have many goods on planets that they need to move off to get more dice)
B. know the odds - If many red dice are being rolled by opponents you know it is more likely that Develop or Settle will be played. If someone has built up lots of developments that favor a phase, they are more likely to choose that one.
3. Know when to end the game - sometimes it is too late when you see an opponent running away with something but it can be better for you to end the game with a less efficient move for you than to let your opponent keep getting more points by running their engine
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Nachofan wrote:
This game is always about tactics vs strategy and knowing when to let one go to focus on the other. Strategy is having a long term plan. Tactics being the ability to make something work out of the undesirable outcome. The game is based on dice. So at some level you are at the mercy of what the dice roll. You then can build long term some control of those dice through choices you make on selecting which dice to pursue to add. Also you can choose reassign powers that can let you do your plan regardless of what you roll (within limits). So getting good at this game is a matter of knowing when to react to the dice and when you can manipulate the dice to do something you want.

General tactics/strategy rules:
1.Maximize your action economy
A. Try to make sure you have enough money to buy as many dice as you can without wasting money
B. Try not to lock dice up for too long on incomplete settlements and developments.
2.Play your opponent (or in a 2 player game the neutral die)
A. Sometimes it is really obvious what another player will do (They need money for example, or they have many goods on planets that they need to move off to get more dice)
B. know the odds - If many red dice are being rolled by opponents you know it is more likely that Develop or Settle will be played. If someone has built up lots of developments that favor a phase, they are more likely to choose that one.
3. Know when to end the game - sometimes it is too late when you see an opponent running away with something but it can be better for you to end the game with a less efficient move for you than to let your opponent keep getting more points by running their engine

Don't forget about Dictate! I've seen quite a few players forget about that. Even those who weren't new to the game.
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I've noticed that newer players often build the tiles they've got rather than scouting them away.

Personally, I think it's usually better to discard most (if not all) of your tiles when scouting, most of the time.

Obviously this is where having more experience (knowledge of the available tiles etc) helps...
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Barry
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flibberdyjib wrote:
I've noticed that newer players often build the tiles they've got rather than scouting them away.

Personally, I think it's usually better to discard most (if not all) of your tiles when scouting, most of the time.

Obviously this is where having more experience (knowledge of the available tiles etc) helps...


This is a good strategic move as you look at what you have in your build queue, don't like it and look for a better combo (also ordering matters here).
 
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Daniel Eig
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Simply speaking - an easy strategy for success is that you should be attempting to maximize the amount of dice you are rolling compared to your opponents - aka MORE DICE.

Whether that means getting more dice from planets, or maximizing your existing dice by making sure they recirculate as quickly as possible.
 
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Pap Qaq
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joelhoro wrote:
When I first played Roll, I really struggled, and even after perhaps 15 games, I still feel I am nowhere. I have zero intuition about where to lean, what to do.


I'll help you out as this is a very narrow game with one winning strategy that has some luck dependence. In order to win, you need to score a lot of points, have the ability to mitigate your dice unluckiness, get money back in phases you call, and see a fair amount of tiles. It turns out there is only one strategy which does this - explore / develop. Because developments are critical for the first three of the requirements above, whoever builds them has a big advantage. The last issue is handled by exploration.

Unfortunately once you realize this the game is REALLY bad. It's made worse by how difficult it is to actually look at a lot of tiles, an issue that was avoided in Race because cards also served as money.

Produce / consume, the only alternate strategy, just loses as it can't check enough of the above boxes and is noticeably slower. The settle strategy is just too sad to deserve more than a cursory mention - worlds score the same as devs with none of the outside benefits.

So your winning strategy - and hope you get luckier than your opponents - is:
Hope you get lucky on your first roll and can explore to get your dice in the cup and find cheap worlds / utility devs to start your tableau. Of course if you happen to start with a trade good, this gives you a second chance at luck.
Settle a planet or two to pick up extra dice. Hope you are lucky to have cheap planets that give you good die chances for your dev / explore strat.
Hope you lucky to have found devs with reassign powers and $ bonuses for dev and to a lesser extent explore.
Call dev / explore based on your highest die concentration / availability of good dev tiles. Obviously having reassign powers makes this easier.
Hope you get lucky and find some high value six devs to play at the end of the game.

Important reminder - tiles become a "currency" of sorts as trading in inferior tiles is the only way you will ever gain sufficient search depth in your explores. Since most tiles are unplayable (they don't satisfy the conditions above) their only real value is in giving you a few more chances to lucky in the tile draw.

And that's it. Once you figure this out you realize how random the outcome actually is and that you are basically engaging in a large scale luck simulator with a lot of pretty stuff obscuring what is actually going on.
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Barry
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I disagree that this game is too luck based. There are dice so there is some randomness, yes. I have 1 friend who gets this game slightly more than me. He wins about 2/3 of the time. Against others, I tend to win about 2/3 of the time. In my close to 50 games of this played that tells me enough that there is skill involved. It comes down to reading the opportunities where they are and knowing when to go looking for new opportunities.
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Paul VanPraag
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Is everyone involved utilizing the strategy p1q0 mentioned? If some of your players are playing with a better strategy than others then they will have a much higher winrate. If everyone is attempting roughly the same plan then there might be less chances for skill.
 
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