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Eclipse: Second Dawn for the Galaxy» Forums » General

Subject: Discovery tile storage solutions? [RESOLVED] rss

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Stephen L
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So listen, I think it’s easy to point out problems. It’s a lot harder to come up with good solutions. Based on Kolossal’s most recent comment on the Kickstarter page, there is no third bag to store the discovery tiles in, and there is no designated spot in the gametrayz (as of 7/23/18) to store the discovery tiles. They expect us to store the discovery tiles in same bag as the reputation tiles or technology tiles, which is a terrible solution. This would require sorting tiles during each and every setup, or drawing them from a bag before placing them out on the hexes when an ancient is found, which gives you a 50% chance of seeing what the discovery is before placing it. That just doesn’t work.

Since it is clear to me that the publishers are still actively listening and responding to our feedback I think it would be really helpful to have a brainstorming forum about the best ways we could store the Discovery tiles.

Right now there appear to be 46 total discovery tiles (36 in the base game including blue stretch goals, 4 with the promo tiles, 6 in Worlds Afar).

Publisher solutions:
1) Change one of the two table trayz to fit discovery tiles instead of dice. The game is coming with 24 dice. In the latest render of the gametrayz they showed that just ONE of the table trays can fit up to 24 dice (very nice!). This means they could have one table tray hold the dice, and the second table tray hold all discovery tiles. This is my favorite solution by far since it would keep them on the table right next to the ancient ship minis to grab as needed. Even better would be if they could be slanted just like the ship part tiles are in their tray.
2) Change the base tray. It appears based on the current render that the base tray will be very deep (up to 10 tiles deep). The spot where the traitor tile sits and the ancient blueprints sit will be vastly underutilized. This would be a fine place to store the discovery tiles, angled just like the ship part tiles are, and placed underneath the traitor tile. After all, the summary tiles are all fitting inside the species trays, so we don’t need room for 10 summary tiles beneath the traitor tile.

DIY solutions:
1) find a small Plano box to store them all (along with the 9 minor species tiles and perhaps the human ship minis?)
2) Good ol’ Ziplock baggie, and stack them face-down at the beginning of the game

What other ideas do you have? Thank you for listening!


EDIT: Kolossal just confirmed that they are working with Noah at Game Trayz to store the discovery tiles in the trays somehow
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Ben Kyo
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
sir_edwardo wrote:

Publisher solutions:
1) Change one of the two table trayz to fit discovery tiles instead of dice. The game is coming with 24 dice. In the latest render of the gametrayz they showed that just ONE of the table trays can fit up to 24 dice (very nice!). This means they could have one table tray hold the dice, and the second table tray hold all discovery tiles. This is my favorite solution by far since it would keep them on the table right next to the ancient ship minis to grab as needed. Even better would be if they could be slanted just like the ship part tiles are in their tray.
2) Change the base tray. It appears based on the current render that the base tray will be very deep (up to 10 tiles deep). The spot where the traitor tile sits and the ancient blueprints sit will be vastly underutilized. This would be a fine place to store the discovery tiles, angled the technology tiles are stored, and placed underneath the traitor tile.

Both sound alright to me. I agree that a place in a tray would be nice, or they should be embossed or otherwise made in a way that allows players to tell which face is which when drawing from another bag.
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Walter Kolczynski
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
I'd like to see space in the base tray for them, as well as for the minor species tiles. They could remove one of the blueprint slots if necessary to add both.
 
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Chad Williams
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
They could alternatively use Spot UV coating on one side of the discover tiles, giving a raised pattern on the tile backs for example, at which point you can more safely draw them from a bag knowing which side to keep face down.

Edit: I didn't realize Ben said basically the same thing already. And here I thought I was being clever .
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Sascha Heib
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Hope we get an official solution for this till the end of the campaign...
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Anthony Simons
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
The discovery tiles need neither solution; a ziplock bag is fine, as they are always shuffled. As you quite rightly say, a drawbag is unsuitable because you could see what’s on the tile whilst drawing it.
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Christopher Paul
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
I was quite surprised by their response. Almost any answer than the one given would have been better.

Currently there does seem to be too much space for blueprints, hopefully that can be dedicated to discovery tiles.

Otherwise a baggy will be fine.
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Michael Müller
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
I do not get those solutions with nice storage but bad handling during setup, play and storing away of the game.

I would like 'discovery tokens' that have a '?' on both sides and have the same shape as the discovery tiles. The tokens are stored in one of the trays. Those tokens are placed on the hexes instead of the tiles. 10 should be sufficient. If you claim a token you put it back in the supply and draw a tile from a bag. This means the tiles are stored and shuffled in a bag. Imho this is the most time saving solution. I do not want to shuffle the tiles on the table and having to stack them or put them back in a tray without one flipping by accident.

If they come not up with a better solution this is what I will do myself.
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Jędrzej Jarocki
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Why even put it on the hex? With new rules about gaining discoveries you can just pull one from opaque bag when you need one (after explore or battle).

Edit: the only exception would be nebula and some other promos unless they change it. Here you can put blanks in there (I guess we will have some).
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Geoff Speare
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
vir3ns wrote:
Why even put it on the hex? With new rules about gaining discoveries you can just pull one from opaque bag when you need one (after explore or battle).


Since you can claim one without dropping a disk, you need a way to mark that it was claimed. There are plenty of other scenarios as well where there's a need to remember.

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Ben Kyo
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
galfridus wrote:
vir3ns wrote:
Why even put it on the hex? With new rules about gaining discoveries you can just pull one from opaque bag when you need one (after explore or battle).


Since you can claim one without dropping a disk, you need a way to mark that it was claimed. There are plenty of other scenarios as well where there's a need to remember.


Could you elaborate? I can't think of any (disclaimer: I'm not an Eclipse rules guru).
 
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Geoff Speare
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Benkyo wrote:
galfridus wrote:
vir3ns wrote:
Why even put it on the hex? With new rules about gaining discoveries you can just pull one from opaque bag when you need one (after explore or battle).


Since you can claim one without dropping a disk, you need a way to mark that it was claimed. There are plenty of other scenarios as well where there's a need to remember.


Could you elaborate? I can't think of any (disclaimer: I'm not an Eclipse rules guru).



-- Claim a hex with tile by placing a disk, remove the disk later.
-- Doing the above via Influence action (now requires two separate actions or bankruptcy to remove the disk)
-- (v1) Fight a battle with ancients, disk removed later

The rules changes for V2 make these circumstances less likely but not impossible.
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Michael Müller
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
galfridus wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
galfridus wrote:
vir3ns wrote:
Why even put it on the hex? With new rules about gaining discoveries you can just pull one from opaque bag when you need one (after explore or battle).


Since you can claim one without dropping a disk, you need a way to mark that it was claimed. There are plenty of other scenarios as well where there's a need to remember.


Could you elaborate? I can't think of any (disclaimer: I'm not an Eclipse rules guru).



-- Claim a hex with tile by placing a disk, remove the disk later.
-- Doing the above via Influence action (now requires two separate actions or bankruptcy to remove the disk)
-- (v1) Fight a battle with ancients, disk removed later

The rules changes for V2 make these circumstances less likely but not impossible.

I think he is right, there is no situatuon where you have to put a discovery tile on the hexes.
Explore -> no ancient? -> claim discovery
If there is an ancient, then just place the ship.
Ancient defeated? -> claim discovery
Exploring hexes without ancients or defeating ancients without taking the discovery tile makes no sense. This means, there will never be unclaimed discovery tiles or hexes where it is unclear wether a discovery can be claimed or not.
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M R
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
sychobob wrote:
I do not get those solutions with nice storage but bad handling during setup, play and storing away of the game.

I would like 'discovery tokens' that have a '?' on both sides and have the same shape as the discovery tiles. The tokens are stored in one of the trays. Those tokens are placed on the hexes instead of the tiles. 10 should be sufficient. If you claim a token you put it back in the supply and draw a tile from a bag. This means the tiles are stored and shuffled in a bag. Imho this is the most time saving solution. I do not want to shuffle the tiles on the table and having to stack them or put them back in a tray without one flipping by accident.

If they come not up with a better solution this is what I will do myself.


This is a great idea
 
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Stephen L
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
If the publisher doesn’t change the storage situation with the trays, I’m warming up to the idea of having a third opaque bag. In that case they should change the rulebook to say you don’t put the discovery on the hex, you simply draw a discovery from the bag when you find one with explore, and as a combat reward after defeating an ancient/GCDS.

I’m not familiar with the nebula, maybe a blank is needed?
 
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Martin Tomov
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Wanted to share a funny solution I have to this sort of 'problem'. I really like Discovery Tiles in a bag, though it is true you can easily see what is on them as you draw them. For this reason I use placeholder tokens that just sit there until someone decides to explore the sector. At that point the placeholder token is removed and a discovery tile is drawn. It saves the need to stack tiles elsewhere.
 
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Sascha Heib
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
As stated above a placeholder wouldn't even be necessary. Just give us a nice third cloth bag.
 
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Robert
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
With rules as written, a draw bag would not work, but there CURRENTLY is no situation I can come up with where a draw bag wouldn't work. Expansions may change that. Something like an NPC that moves through tiles, revealing them as he goes, but not claiming discovery tiles, would change that, or a player race that's barred from picking them up. And these are just two scenarios that I can think of right of the bat, I'm sure there are more.

I would like to have some room for storage of expansion components. The traitor tile area looks like it may be designed to hold some loose tokens, like the round order tokens from Worlds Afar, that otherwise would not have anywhere to go in the trayz.

So we really need a face down storage solution. I think it makes sense to have it go in the base tray, as that's where the hexes go too, although table tray makes sense too. If they make the dice area so that it can hold either dice or tokens then I can see that work, but I won't expect them to make two different designs for the two table trays, and it looks like they are building in space for our dice add-on that's coming.

It looks like the hexes in the base tray may be able to get re-organized in two rows of three hexes, which would create a lot of extra space (at the expense of losing that nice pyramid look)

 
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Dave Chandler
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Personally, I prefer drawing them from a draw bag.

In actual practice discovery tiles almost never ever hit the board. Especially now that you don't have to place an influence disc, there is no reason not to collect every one you come across.

What about under ancients? Well it isn't possible to collect the tile until the ancients are gone, so we just leave he hex blank and draw the discovery tile when you kill the ancient, much the same way we draw reputation tiles. The corner cases where this isn't how it would work (pretty much just alien hive) are so rare that it's really easy to keep track mentally of the tiles that have been claimed and the ones that haven't.
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Joel M
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Leaving them blank and drawing after you kill the ancients will work until we get Hive worlds again. Also the nebula mini-expansion will need to have them placed, since it counts as 3 places. Also that ancient doesn't have a tile under it.

For the most part though you could just draw from a bag when needed.
 
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Stephen L
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Re: Discovery tile storage solutions?
Kolossal just commented 5 minutes ago on Kickstarter:

“Hey folks, we wanted to let you know that we're working with Noah form Game Trayz and the Discovery tiles WILL be kept in the trays. Final details will be revealed once we have a picture to show you.”

I couldn’t be happier about this!! Bravo for listening to feedback! Changing the title to [RESOLVED]
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Michael Müller
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sir_edwardo wrote:
Kolossal just commented 5 minutes ago on Kickstarter:

“Hey folks, we wanted to let you know that we're working with Noah form Game Trayz and the Discovery tiles WILL be kept in the trays. Final details will be revealed once we have a picture to show you.”

I couldn’t be happier about this!! Bravo for listening to feedback! Changing the title to [RESOLVED]

I really don't get this tray storage thing. If the box sits on the shelve it does not really matter for me wether those tokens are in a plastic bag or tray.

What does matter is having to get them out of the tray, shuffle them face down, sort them back into the tray or stack them on the table and sort them into the tray when the game is finished. Storing, shuffling and drawing them out of a bag is by far more convinient.

There is too much emphasis on storage going on and far too less care for usability/handling.

Luckely the tray can just be replaced by a bag.
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Samuel Helderman
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I’m backing now:-)
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