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Subject: More co-created fighters rss

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Asger Johansen
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First of all, it was great fun co-creating the Drunken Master Lu Yan with you all!

We would like to continue the fun. So if you are up for it, we will use this thread to throw around some ideas for other fighters. If they rock, they might be included in Combo Fighter II ;-)

So what do you say?

Some of the styles I would personally like to see in the game are Kali/Escrima/Arnis, BJJ, Krav Maga, boxing, and Judo.

Thoughts? Ideas? Let me hear it!

Thanks!

Asger
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Sammyo Roychowdhury
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WE need a grumpy Irish boxer, who has multiple grandchildren and is facing a mid-life crisis. All offense and defense, and a combo that can lead to a Haymaker.

Also, Grunkle Stan aesthetic Would be perfect for this fighter




Thank you for involving your backers in your design process. There are so many great ideas here, and watching a co-created fighter really come together is super satisfying. So thank you again for doing this.
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Lublang wrote:
First of all, it was great fun co-creating the Drunken Master Lu Yan with you all!

We would like to continue the fun. So if you are up for it, we will use this thread to throw around some ideas for other fighters. If they rock, they might be included in Combo Fighter II ;-)

So what do you say?

Some of the styles I would personally like to see in the game are Kali/Escrima/Arnis, BJJ, Krav Maga, boxing, and Judo.

Thoughts? Ideas? Let me hear it!

Thanks!

Asger


Perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves since the launch of the game is still several months in future, but thinking of new character concepts is always fun.

I am a fan of grappling, so both BJJ and Judo would be intriguing.

BJJ
The problem with BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) is that Baako's current design is some kind of mix of BJJ and Wrestling. There is nothing bad in that, but creating a new grappling focused character and making him unique enough can be challenging.

I like Baako's special power, but his signature combos do not fit the character at all in my opinion. A huge wrestler like him would not be going for Heel hook, Armbar nor Triangle choke. These are classic submission moves, which would be more fitting for a BJJ fighter than a wrestler. When I think of Baako I think of old monsters like Mark Kerr, Kevin Randleman or even Brock Lesnar. These guys would focus on pounding their opponents on the groun.d They would rarely use any submissions, and when they did, they were mostly armlocks such as kimura or americana or occasionally a neck crank or guillotine choke.

Since BJJ is focused on grappling on the ground, the logical special ability would be the guard which is a position for limiting opponents offensive abilities on the ground. Aforementioned Armbar and Triangle choke are often applied from the guard position.

In gameplay terms the the guard would be similar to Baako's ground fighter special power. It can be activated by winning the card flip with a certain card/cards or perhaps a signature combo. When the the guard is active, the BJJ fighter can use his signature combos. The signature combos would be his primary source of damage.

As long as the the guard is active, the opponent's attack attack cards have -2 penalty on initiative and all damage dealt by the opponent is reduced by 3 for each card. Additionally BJJ fighter could gain priority on some his cards while the guard is active.

The guard can be escaped by dealing more than 5 damage against the BJJ character on a single combo. This could be challenging due to the damage reduction and initiative penalties. Signature combos played by the opponents would not suffer from the damage reduction penalties, so they could be a good way to escape for most characters.

The BJJ fighter would have quite terrible attack values on his cards, but his signature combos could deal massive damage. Unlike Baako who can pound his opponent to oblivion with his basic attacks, this guy would be more of a turtle character who must maintain total control of the fight to be scary.

I did not do proper calculations for the values, so they most likely need adjustments. Hopefully the concept is clear enough.

I'll try to come up with something for the other martial arts as well.
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James Adams
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Yes! I love that you are so engaged with your player-base. It really is something that very few people do, in any business.

I have been watching GLOW on Netflix, and I think it could be pretty cool and fun to have some sort of “showman wrestler” included as a character. You could even create his “heel” adversary character as another new fighter which could be a cool dynamic for Solo campaign games too. It also brings a bit of background and lore to the characters as a group of fighters, as opposed to just their individual stories.

I’m not very good at themes lol so someone else would need to come up with some wrestler names/themed moves. I saw so many people with great ideas for the drunken fighting style I’m sure there could be some very cool ideas.




Another popular fighting style that would be very interesting to play around with would be MMA. I don’t know how/if that work balance-wise with other fighting styles, but I could see myself enjoying a fight as a grappler. I could see it as a style that has a lot of “interrupt” mechanics that stop the other fighters somehow from completing their planned moves.

Keep up the good work! I seriously cannot wait to get my copy of Combo Fighter!!!!
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Heiko Günther
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Cool! Combo Fighter II! Already love it.

I would love it if the second installment not simply gives more fighters and arenas, but extends and twists the core rules. After all, presumably it is for well-versed veterans, that already know their ins and outs. Some things that might be cool:

- A fighter that has a larger deck (=more stamina) but some sort of drawback that comes with it. Maybe they never ever do any damage with single moves and can solely do damage if they combo at least three cards.

- A fighter that does not really do a lot of damage, but "wears down" their opponent, like some boxers do. Dance around them, evade their blows and once they start getting groggy, hit em. Maybe this fighter could put cards from tied flips aside, and return them to the bottom of their draw deck in case they manage to score the next hit, or use a special combo to do so. So they keep more health longer, without doing actual damage. Maybe they could even have a smaller deck.

- A fighter with double cards, that have a different effect when turned on their head. You may not rotate them on your hand, but after revealing, you may discard a card to rotate them and use the other side instead. This could be some dirty fighter, always using tricks and feints.

- A fighter where the opponent has to guess the colour they play before revealing. If guessed correctly, all proceeds as regularly (or they even get a slight advantage), if not, they take an extra damage or something. This could be a very shifty character, maybe dressed in a mirrored suit, or throwing smoke bombs all the time, but ultimately not very strong.

- A very versatile fighter with really a lot of different cards, maybe only unique cards, and possibly even a lot more cards than other fighters, Before the game, you either pick or randomly draw the cards you use for his match. Maybe even hte combos are randomized (or assembled by the players) from combo-parts on small tokens. Could even use all the other fighters moves, like Mokujin. And their combos.

- A fighter that somehow gets to cheat. I don't really know how, but I would love that. Maybe they have a fourth colour that they must sort into the RPS-circle before picking their card each turn or something. Maybe they have illustrations from some moves on other cards and if the opponent does not notice them playing it, they get to do the other move, if they have it on their hand.

- A fighter that starts with a very small deck, and has to do combos to "activate" their remaining moves. The sub-decks each consist of only one type of card, and get gradually stronger.

- A fighter with special cards that basically mirror the last card on their opponent’s discard. Or cards without features, that represent a card the player can customize according to some rules before the game, using the fighters player mat and some chits. Basically a somewhat unpredictable opponent.

Aw, can't continue, need to work for real. Either way, looking forward to receiving my copy. Especially of Combo Fighter III - Everybody knows that part 3 is the best...
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lee elektrik wrote:
Cool! Combo Fighter II! Already love it.

I would love it if the second installment not simply gives more fighters and arenas, but extends and twists the core rules. After all, presumably it is for well-versed veterans, that already know their ins and outs. Some things that might be cool:

- A fighter that has a larger deck (=more stamina) but some sort of drawback that comes with it. Maybe they never ever do any damage with single moves and can solely do damage if they combo at least three cards.

- A fighter that does not really do a lot of damage, but "wears down" their opponent, like some boxers do. Dance around them, evade their blows and once they start getting groggy, hit em. Maybe this fighter could put cards from tied flips aside, and return them to the bottom of their draw deck in case they manage to score the next hit, or use a special combo to do so. So they keep more health longer, without doing actual damage. Maybe they could even have a smaller deck.

- A fighter with double cards, that have a different effect when turned on their head. You may not rotate them on your hand, but after revealing, you may discard a card to rotate them and use the other side instead. This could be some dirty fighter, always using tricks and feints.

- A fighter where the opponent has to guess the colour they play before revealing. If guessed correctly, all proceeds as regularly (or they even get a slight advantage), if not, they take an extra damage or something. This could be a very shifty character, maybe dressed in a mirrored suit, or throwing smoke bombs all the time, but ultimately not very strong.

- A very versatile fighter with really a lot of different cards, maybe only unique cards, and possibly even a lot more cards than other fighters, Before the game, you either pick or randomly draw the cards you use for his match. Maybe even hte combos are randomized (or assembled by the players) from combo-parts on small tokens. Could even use all the other fighters moves, like Mokujin. And their combos.

- A fighter that somehow gets to cheat. I don't really know how, but I would love that. Maybe they have a fourth colour that they must sort into the RPS-circle before picking their card each turn or something. Maybe they have illustrations from some moves on other cards and if the opponent does not notice them playing it, they get to do the other move, if they have it on their hand.

- A fighter that starts with a very small deck, and has to do combos to "activate" their remaining moves. The sub-decks each consist of only one type of card, and get gradually stronger.

- A fighter with special cards that basically mirror the last card on their opponent’s discard. Or cards without features, that represent a card the player can customize according to some rules before the game, using the fighters player mat and some chits. Basically a somewhat unpredictable opponent.

Aw, can't continue, need to work for real. Either way, looking forward to receiving my copy. Especially of Combo Fighter III - Everybody knows that part 3 is the best...


I like some of these ideas. My favourite is the card with double effects, but I would modify it a bit. Instead of turning the card after it has been revealed, the player can choose to discard additional card from their hand to modify a certain aspect of the played card. This would be closer to kicker ability in MtG (https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Kicker than a double card, but I think it would be a better fit to combo fighter.

The modification of the card could be as simple as improving the initiative of an red card or increasing damage dealt by the card. More drastic changes could be changing the colour of the card or granting the card priority.

I am not fond of having a character with a larger deck and reliance on combos. That sounds like a turtle scrub type of player in fighting games, and that is not very entertaining way to play any game.


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Asger Johansen
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Some great ideas here!

I will have to digest them a bit. Will get back tomorrow!

Asger
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Arnaud MATAGOT
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Lublang wrote:
Some great ideas here!

I will have to digest them a bit. Will get back tomorrow!

Asger

Hey Asger,


Some really great ideas there. I’d be truly impressed to see you chew all that in 24H!


See you at Gen Con, we got to play some combo fighter as promised!
Arnaud.
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Judo

Judo is known mainly for its throws instead of striking. https://judoinfo.com/gokyo/

There are dozens of joint locks and choke holds in judo, but they are rarely seen in competition. https://judoinfo.com/gokyo2/

Judo throws can be relatively safe if the opponent can brace themselves for the impact by performing an ukemi. If they fail to do so, the results can be scary. Here are few examples from olympic Judo, MMA and a bonus clip.





There are surprisinly few good examples of Judo-based characters in fighting games. The best ones I found were Ryoko from Fighter's History and Gof from Virtua Fighter.





Cards
7 * Punch
7 * Sweep
4 * Kick

8 * Shove
8 * Pull

6 * Close in
5 * Side step
5 * Move out

Starting hand
RT
RS
BS
YT
YS

Signature combos
uchi mata
seoi nage
osoto gari

Power token – Devastating throws

Add X damage to all of your combos. X is the number of unique card colours in combo multiplied by 3.
E.g. X is 3 in a combo consisting of a single colour and 9 in a combo with all three colours.

Once you have played your combo, the opponent can play one card from their hand as an ukemi card to reduce the total damage of the combo. They will then take remaining damage as usual.

If the opponent plays an attack card, the damage is reduced for the highest damage value on that card.

E.g. Ferro's high kick would reduce the damage by 5 points.

If the opponent plays a footwork card, the damage is reduced by 4 points.

If the opponent plays a block card, the damage is reduced by 3 points.

The damage can be reduced by additional 3 points, if the ukemi card has a priority symbol.
E.g. Baako's Roll or Wrestle.


Gameplay
To simulate the danger of getting thrown, the opponent may choose a single card from their hand to perform ukemi and reduce the damage inflicted by the combo. The ukemi mechanic has two purposes:
1) Allow the opponent to make meaningful decision if they get hit by a combo. Is it worth it to hold on valuable cards with high damage or priority, or should I sacrifice them to reduce the incoming damage?
2) Simulate a combo breaker feature which has been suggested by a few people. One of the most frustating things in fighting games is getting stuck in long juggle combos when you have no way out of it. The first game where I encountered combo breaker mechanic was Mortal Kombat 9.

Here is a good explanation on how it works.


There is no punching or kicking in judo competition, thus the judoka's attack cards should have quite low opening damage and combo damage. They cannot be absolutely horrible though, otherwise the opponents will just spam footwork cards.

It is common to see both competitors end up on the ground after a successful judo throw. The thrower of course tries to land in a dominant position such as kesa-gatame. To simulate this, the combo damage should be at least average on all cards. This would create incentive of trying to commit your whole hand into a combo as often as possible. The bonus damage from Devastating throws is another reason to commit a lot of resources into the combos.

I thought the signature combos could start with block cards, so opponents would value footwork cards both as openers and as effective ukemi cards. The signature combos inflict heavy damage, but they are a bit telegraphed since they all have the same starting colour.

To add more more depth to play, the footwork and attack cards of the judoka link mostly to blocks, which are the bridge between different colours in the toolkit. The blocks have more combo options than the other cards.
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lee elektrik wrote:


- A fighter that does not really do a lot of damage, but "wears down" their opponent, like some boxers do. Dance around them, evade their blows and once they start getting groggy, hit em. Maybe this fighter could put cards from tied flips aside, and return them to the bottom of their draw deck in case they manage to score the next hit, or use a special combo to do so. So they keep more health longer, without doing actual damage. Maybe they could even have a smaller deck.

- A fighter where the opponent has to guess the colour they play before revealing. If guessed correctly, all proceeds as regularly (or they even get a slight advantage), if not, they take an extra damage or something. This could be a very shifty character, maybe dressed in a mirrored suit, or throwing smoke bombs all the time, but ultimately not very strong.

- A fighter with special cards that basically mirror the last card on their opponent’s discard. Or cards without features, that represent a card the player can customize according to some rules before the game, using the fighters player mat and some chits. Basically a somewhat unpredictable opponent.


These three ideas could be modified slightly to create an interesting boxer who specializes in counter punching. Real fighters like Floyd Mayweather and Anderson Silva are good examples of this type of fighting based on superior speed and taunting opponents when they miss. Steve Fox from Tekken series is another source of inspiration, as he is very elusive fighter who specializes in counter attacks.

Here is a good highlight video showing Floyd Mayweather Jr using Philly shell and other defensive boxing techniques.


Commentary on his techniques and tactics.


Excellent breakdown of Tekken character Steve Fox.


Cards
8 * RT – Jab – speed 6+X – damage 1/0+X – combo RS, RC, YS
6 * RS – Cross – speed 4+X – damage 2/2+X – combo RT, YT, YS
6 * RC – Hook – speed 3+X – damage 3/3+X– combo BT, YT, YC

7 * BT – Shoulder roll – damage 0/0 – combo RS, RC, YC
5 * BS – Block – damage 0/0 – combo RT, RS, YC

6 * YT – Bob and Weave – damage 0/0 – combo RT, BT, YC
6 * YS – Lean back – damage 0/0 – combo RT, RS,YC
6 * YC – Circle – damage 0/0 – combo RC, BS, YS

Starting hand
RT
BT
BS
YT
YS

Signature combos
??? – RT + RS + YT + [ RS ] – Damage 8 [12]
Check hook – BS + YC + RC – damage 8
Pull Counter – YS + RS + YT + [ YC ] – Damage 8 [10]

Power token – Philly shell
The following rules apply to the other side of this token. Once you know the rules, flip this token so that the ‘0’ faces your opponent.

X = bonus damage and initiative on your attack cards.

If the card flip was a tie and neither player played an attack card, return your card to the bottom of your deck.

If your combo consists of at least four cards, return one of the used cards to the bottom of your deck.

If you win the card flip with a block card or a footwork card, increase X by rotating this token 90 degrees clockwise.

If opponent wins the card flip with an attack card, rotate this card so that ‘0’ faces your opponent.

The values on the flipside:
side 1: x = 0
side 2: x = 1
side 3: x = 2
side 4: x = 3

Gameplay
The idea behind Philly shell ability is to encourage the boxer to observe the patterns of the opponent for a while. Once he is familiar with the opponent's rhythm, he can unleash fast counter attacks with devastating power. This guy is a bit cocky though and loves taunting his opponents in the middle of the fight. Occasionally it might backfire as the opponent scores a solid hit on him. After being hit, the boxer must recalibrate his timing.

In the start of the game his attacks are mediocre, but once philly shell gains some levels, he can apply pressure even to faster characters such as Renée. His combos are a bit sluggish as he must use jab, blocks and footwork to string together more powerful attacks.

His attack card deal only 40 damage without any levels on philly shell. Compare that to Ferro who can deal 56 to 68 damage without his special power. To mitigate the dismal damage potential, he can return used cards to his deck which simulates wearing out the opponent with superior conditioning and conserving energy.
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Asger Johansen
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It's past Midnight, but I guess it still counts as 'tomorrow', right?

I would like the game to stay within the confines of the design space we have already established, i.e. 51 card deck, a Character Sheet, and a Power Token.

That being said, there are both some really interesting concepts and actual suggestions here that I would love to explore.

1: The concept of a 'kicker' ability is very cool and could go across several characters, but vary slightly (as with the X mechanic). You could imagine the kicker being cards of certain colors, cards from the off the top of your deck, rotating your Power Token etc.

2: A character based on 'guessing what your opponent plays' is something I've already tinkered with a bit for a Tai Chi character. The basic idea being: Before you flip your card, I may try to guess the color, if I can I rotate my token, If I can't, I take damage.

3: I also played around with a 'mirroring/mime' character who can combo off or the opponent's cards. Not sure what fighting style that would fit. But there is definitely some interesting stuff going on there!

4: Seems like we will have to do a boxer. Or maybe even two or three :-) I'm thinking traditional, bare-knuckled boxing (the mad Irish), modern boxing. I think the Philly Shell variation, Vapi suggests, is a solid bid. I'll put that fighter together after Gen Con.

5: Of course we need a Judo fighter! But are we sure the throws would necessarily be red cards? What if they were block cards with 0/someting damage values?

We leave for Gen Con Tuesday, so I will not have a ton of time to toy with this before then. Though I'm quite tempted to put together that Philly Shell fighter tomorrow. We'll see ;-)

Thanks again for some great ideas! Keep'em coming!

Asger
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Lublang wrote:
It's past Midnight, but I guess it still counts as 'tomorrow', right?

I would like the game to stay within the confines of the design space we have already established, i.e. 51 card deck, a Character Sheet, and a Power Token.

That being said, there are both some really interesting concepts and actual suggestions here that I would love to explore.

1: The concept of a 'kicker' ability is very cool and could go across several characters, but vary slightly (as with the X mechanic). You could imagine the kicker being cards of certain colors, cards from the off the top of your deck, rotating your Power Token etc.

2: A character based on 'guessing what your opponent plays' is something I've already tinkered with a bit for a Tai Chi character. The basic idea being: Before you flip your card, I may try to guess the color, if I can I rotate my token, If I can't, I take damage.

3: I also played around with a 'mirroring/mime' character who can combo off or the opponent's cards. Not sure what fighting style that would fit. But there is definitely some interesting stuff going on there!

4: Seems like we will have to do a boxer. Or maybe even two or three :-) I'm thinking traditional, bare-knuckled boxing (the mad Irish), modern boxing. I think the Philly Shell variation, Vapi suggests, is a solid bid. I'll put that fighter together after Gen Con.

5: Of course we need a Judo fighter! But are we sure the throws would necessarily be red cards? What if they were block cards with 0/someting damage values?

We leave for Gen Con Tuesday, so I will not have a ton of time to toy with this before then. Though I'm quite tempted to put together that Philly Shell fighter tomorrow. We'll see ;-)

Thanks again for some great ideas! Keep'em coming!

Asger


1: When it comes to 'kicker' ability, it has potential to be a building block of characters just like rotating and flipping the power token. However kicker is a horrible name and should be avoided.

2: I am not sure how guessing the opponents colour would work here. We are doing it already on every card flip. If we added another parallel rock, paper, scissors match to every card flip, the tai chi character is guaranteed to win at least one of them.

E.g. Player 1 plays a blue card.
Player 2 (tai chi) guesses that opponent plays a red and he plays a yellow card. Player 2 guessed wrong but won the card flip with the yellow card.

I think this scheme is fiddly with no real improvement on the gameplay.

3: I think the mirror character could be a kali practitioner. I have a few ideas for that style as well.

4: I am glad you liked the concept. I think it fits the existing cast quite well while offering a new playstyle.

5: I think the judo fighter should have a deck with emphasis on blocks. The attack cards are mainly to be used in the combos and prevent the opponent from playing footwork cards safely.

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Vapi
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I tried to improve the concepts for the judoka and the boxer. Hopefully the theme and mechanics make now more sense.
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Lublang wrote:

4: Seems like we will have to do a boxer. Or maybe even two or three :-) I'm thinking traditional, bare-knuckled boxing (the mad Irish), modern boxing. I think the Philly Shell variation, Vapi suggests, is a solid bid. I'll put that fighter together after Gen Con.


Did you play around with this concept? I would love to hear your comments.
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Asger Johansen
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I have been out of the loop for a while; Gen Con, vacation, 4-month-old.

I'm back at the office and ready to get cracking. I expect to have something to share next week.

Happy gaming!

Asger
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Some mechanical ideas (yellow can be replaced with other colors):

1)when you tir in combat, deal 3 damage to the opponent.

2) Whenever you play a yellow card in combat, draw a card. (Fast character)

3) You may play yellow cards from your discard pile

4) A signatur combo which deals damage equal to the number of yellow cards in your discard pile



Character idea: Mokujin from tekken. Can use the opponents fighting style afainst them:

When you end a combo with a blue, draw three cards from the opponents deck (could lead to interesting improvisation).

When drawing cards at the end of turn, you may draw from opponents discard. (Saves life but opponent will know some of your cards).


Let me know if you need help with playtesting or development. As you know, I am a big fan of the base game so I would love to be a helping hand in season 2 or whatever it would be called
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Muemmelmann wrote:
Some mechanical ideas (yellow can be replaced with other colors):

1)when you tir in combat, deal 3 damage to the opponent.

2) Whenever you play a yellow card in combat, draw a card. (Fast character)

3) You may play yellow cards from your discard pile

4) A signatur combo which deals damage equal to the number of yellow cards in your discard pile



Character idea: Mokujin from tekken. Can use the opponents fighting style afainst them:

When you end a combo with a blue, draw three cards from the opponents deck (could lead to interesting improvisation).

When drawing cards at the end of turn, you may draw from opponents discard. (Saves life but opponent will know some of your cards).


Let me know if you need help with playtesting or development. As you know, I am a big fan of the base game so I would love to be a helping hand in season 2 or whatever it would be called


1) This sounds interesting, but it might be a bit overpowered. Basically the player could win each card flip with two different colours, which can be quite oppressive. Perhaps this ability should be activated somehow? E.g. you have to play a signature combo or discard certain number of cards of same colour?

2) This sounds nice, fast and simple. I like it.

3) + 4) Browsing your discard pile repeatedly can slow the game down. I dislike all abilities which involve browsing discard piles or searching cards from your deck.

As a teenager I used to play quite a bit of Magic the Gathering. My first deck was built around searching my deck for certain cards. On every round I would browse the deck and reshuffle it if I had enough mana. It is an attractive mechanic for the person building the deck, as it mitigates the effects of a bad shuffle to some degree. For the opponent it can be utterly boring as you are constantly browsing your card piles instead of playing the cards. This can be mitigated by the instant shuffles in digital versions of card games.

In combo fighter abilities related to cards on your discard pile can be a bit problematic, as getting hit results in cards getting discarded. In this case a player would gain more and more potential power as they are getting closer to being knocked out.

I would prefer a mechanic like this if the player had to play cards which are sent to discard pile. It can be rewarding to reuse a card from the discard pile, if you made the decision to play it in the first place. MtG has few mechanics like this (e.g. Unearth and Flashback).


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Vapi: hey thanks for your thoughts some comments

1) it could be balanced by having low damage on the cards. Also, note that it only works for yellow and blue since red has the priority number. So if the opponent plays a fast red card, you only win with blue. Should give some fun skewed probability thingies

2) thanks not super interesting but should be fun.

3) yeah it may be a bit slow but if you for example give the character only one type of yellow card, it should be easy. But yeah, may be too slow as you say.

4) Here, there are at least no choices involved so it should be simple if you kerp them seperate it coukd be changed to: whenever you play a yellow card as your opener, after the combat, attach it to your character. Your signature combo deals 3 times the number of yellow cards attached to your character. This makes you want to play yellow, which could be interesting.


Yeah the mokujin thing about drawing from opponents discard pile is probably too slow for the reasons you describe. Maybe if you are not able to choose the cards but just draw random or from the top of their discard.
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Vapi
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Ice hockey brawling
This is a draft, but perhaps it can generate some discussion.

Several different martial arts are represented in Combo Fighter, so perhaps it is time for something a bit more unusual. Ice hockey is not usually listed as a combat sport, even though it can contain surprising amount of fighting and violence. This makes it a fitting addition to the fighting styles without being too silly like dancing or swimming which have appeared in fighting video games.

Hockey fighters tend to grab their opponent with their lead hand and deliver most of the punches on their back hand. Some fighters try to pull off their opponent's jersey, while others prefer taking off their own jersey and protective equipment for increased freedom of movement. Even Wikipedia has notes on hockey fighting tactics.

While headbutts or elbows are not unheard of, punching is the most important attack type in hockey fights.

Background
xxx used to be one of the well known enforcers in the yyy hockey league. His violent playstyle made him a fan favourite in his home town, but it also turned him into a villain in the eyes of media, league officials and rival teams. XXX's hockey career ended in controversy, as he was banned from playing in the league for injuring a star player of a rival team. He did not have to search for new opportunities for long, as Mr. Bennet offered him a place in an upcoming fighting tournament.

Appearance
A hockey smile is a must. Majestic hockey hair might make him stand out from being a generic big guy.

Snus jeans could be another subtle hint on his background.

Cards
Cross
Uppercut
Haymaker
Shove
Grab
Charge
Circle

Starting hand

Signature combos
Potential names include:
Cross check
Drop the gloves
Facewash
Gross misconduct
Slew foot
Unnecessary roughness

All of the combos are named after offences or penalties in ice hockey.

Power token
Side A:Relentless attacks
If both players play attack cards in the card flip and you lose by having lower initiative, you may play additional cards from your hand to match the opponent's initiative. Spend one attack card or two footwork cards or two block cards to match the opponents initiative.

If you end your combo with a Grab, flip this token to its other side.

Side B: Power play
Your attack cards have +3 initiative.

If the opponent hits you with a combo consisting of two or more cards, flip this token to its other side.


Gameplay mechanics
xxx's kit is built around the iniative boost, inspired by the kicker mechanic from Magic the Gathering. To encourage players to use this mechanic, his attacks are rather slow and his combo potential is designed to be among the worst in the game.

He has a large number of different cards, but each card has maximum of two combo options to make long combos harder to perform. Also the combo damage is mediocre at best, to encourage spending cards on initiative boost rather than long combos. The goal is to throw finesse, tactics and grace out of the window and turn the fight into a wild slugfest.


Arena
Ice hockey rink

To block and incoming red attack card, a player must discard one additional blue card after the card flip. If the player does not discard another blue card, the red attack card wins the card flip, and opponent may create as usual.

The home arena should give advantage to the home town fighter. The sllippery surface of the ice hockey rink requires adjustment, on techniques and tactics, which gives xxx the upper hand. In this case blocking becomes harder, increasing the value of attack cards. The initiative boost mechanic allows xxx to match the iniative of a faster fighter fairly reliably. The high single card damage values allows him to thrive in these slugfests, but he is still vulnerable if the opponent can pull off devastating combos on him.

Inspiration
This character is inspired by the Mortal Kombat boss character Shao Kahn. His super armor, damage reduction and powerful attacks make him a force to be reckoned with. Aside from his shoulder tackle, his attacks are quite telegraphed and clever opponent can outmanouver him fairly easily.


The story of the character is inspired by several different events:
Semir Ben-Amor's assault on Ville Peltonen
Chara – Pacioretty incident
Damir Ryspayev's short-lived ban from KHL

Fighting in ice hockey has been controversial subject for a long time. Personally I am not fond of it, but I can certainly understand why it can appeal to some fans. If you want to know more about the subject, check out the documentary ”Ice Guardians”.

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Snorre Krogh
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Wow, a ton of cool ideas here!

While Asger is working with the mechanics, I'll start sketching some of the characters.

Hugs!

Snorre
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Have fun Snorre, I love the art style!

Anoter random idea for control style character:
If you do 6 or more damage in a combo, you may flip your token.

While your token is flipped, your opponent may not play blue.
Flip it back, when you do 6 or more damage in a combo.

(should probably have bad initiative on red cards).


Maybe it could be a style of lying down a kicking as seen in Muhammed Ali vs Antonio Inoki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh6piq2zWws

Surely lying down removes some options for the opponent (ok ,I don't know anyhting about fighting )
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Hail all Combo Fighters!

I apologize for not getting back as early as promised. My daughter went to the hospital (she is fine now).

So many great ideas here to digest!

I have been playing around with Vapi's Philly Shell boxer. I have modified some bits here and there to make the character play a little more smoothly:


Cards
10 * RT – Jab – speed 7 – damage 0/1 – combo RT, RS, YS
7 * RS – Cross – speed 5 – damage 2/2 – combo RC, BS, YS
5 * RC – Hook – speed 3 – damage 3/3 – combo BT, YT, YS

8 * BT – Shoulder roll – damage 0/0 – combo RS, RC, YT
5 * BS – Block – damage 0/0 – combo RT, RS, YS

6 * YT – Circle – damage 0/0 – combo RC, BT, BS
6 * YS – Lean back – damage 0/0 – combo RT, RS,RC

Starting hand
RT
RS
BT
BS
YT

Signature combos
Lead Right – BT + RS + BC Damage 6
Check hook – BT + RC + YT (+BS) damage 6 (9)
Pull Counter – BS + YS + RS + (+BT) Damage 7 (10)

Evaluate Opponent
If you win the card flip with a blue or yellow card, flip this token at the end of the Round.

Explosive Shelling
Your attack cards have +2 Initiative. In a Round where you deal at least 1 damage, add 2 to the total.

If your opponent wins a card flip playing an attack card, flip this token.

As you can see, I jettisoned Bob & Weave since 3 different yellow cards seem to be one too many. (I figured bob and weave is the least Philly Shell of the footwork techniques).

I have switched around some icons to make the cards a little easier to combo.

While the 'put cards at the bottom of your deck' mechanic is highly thematic, it makes the game drag a bit, and over the course of a fight it's not super important anyway.

Also, I streamlined the Philly Shell mechanic, going away from the +X on the damage values as I feel it hampers readability. Hopeful, much of the 'feel' is captured by the current mechanic.

I really like this fighter. Obviously, he (she?) needs some more work and balancing, but there is definitely a solid core already.

Asger
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Asger Johansen
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Other ideas I'm eager to explore:

The Ice Hockey Player. I love this character! Let's try to come up with more colorful characters like this one ;-)

The judoka - what could be a cool character twist? Is it a panda bear?!

Christian's 'Kicker' idea - I'm thinking a lightning rod-wielding Arnis fighter

The X-mechanic where X equals cards attached to your character. Any ideas for a fighting style that would fit this mechanic?

Asger
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Vapi
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Lublang wrote:
Other ideas I'm eager to explore:

The judoka - what could be a cool character twist? Is it a panda bear?!

Asger


Let's keep animals out of the game. They do not fit the roster thematically. They also tend to be the least popular characters in other games:
Tekken
League of Legends

A panda would be exceptionally bad choice, as some of people see the game as Yomi ripoff.

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Muemmelmann wrote:
Have fun Snorre, I love the art style!

Anoter random idea for control style character:
If you do 6 or more damage in a combo, you may flip your token.

While your token is flipped, your opponent may not play blue.
Flip it back, when you do 6 or more damage in a combo.

(should probably have bad initiative on red cards).


Maybe it could be a style of lying down a kicking as seen in Muhammed Ali vs Antonio Inoki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh6piq2zWws

Surely lying down removes some options for the opponent (ok ,I don't know anyhting about fighting )


I kind of like the idea of disabling the opponent, but preventing them from playing a single card type might be a bit too harsh in Combo Fighter. Similar mechanic works in Yomi, because the cards are doublesided and there are 4+1 card types.

Perhaps granting bonus initiative or priority on certain type of cards for the next round would be less oppressive alternative? This would not be as limiting to certain characters, whose deck is built around a single colour.

As for Inoki vs Ali, I am curious how you picked such a strange match? While the match seems interesting on paper, it turned out to be horrible waste of time. I do not see how anyone could enjoy watching that. Wikipedia article lists some reasons why the match turned out the way it did.

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