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Subject: Quantum No-Reveal 9er Experimental Game rss

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Christopher
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I might be crazy, but let’s give this a shot!

Standard no-reveal 9er (roles below) with quantum effects: the game will start with every possible role assignment (world) being valid, and worlds will be eliminated as they become impossible (seer / sorcerer / priest views, no valid NK target, or a NK target later being lynched).

At every dawn / dusk, each player will receive in mod chat their probability of being each of the roles, and the probability that each player is alive will be posted in thread. Any player who has a positive probability of being alive may continue to post and vote.


Good Roles:

Seer - Each night, each player who is a seer in at least one world receives a vision of a target player as 'wolf' or 'not wolf.' The result will be chosen by randomly selecting one of the remaining worlds where the player is the seer and providing the result within that world (and hence eliminating any world where the result is the opposite). Each player receives a vision on Night 0 of one randomly chosen player that is 'not wolf' if they are the seer. Thereafter, the each player chooses which player to view.

Priest - Each night, each player who is a priest in at least one world receives a vision of a target deceased player. Players may select any player who has a positive probability of being dead. The result will be randomly chosen by randomly selecting one of the remaining worlds where the player is the priest and the target is dead and providing the result within that world (and hence eliminating any world where the result is incorrect). No priest view is received on Night 0. Thereafter, each player chooses one deceased player to view.

Hunter - Defies parity.

3 Villagers - Ordinary villagers with no special powers.


Evil Roles:

2 Werewolves - Each night, each player who is a werewolf in at least one world chooses one target player to kill. Target must have a positive probability of being alive and cannot have been chosen previously, unless there are otherwise no valid targets. A world is eliminated if neither player of the wolf pair has a valid order (targeting the other or targeting a player later lynched). There is no kill on Night 0. There is no wolf chat.

Sorcerer - Each night, each player who is a sorcerer in at least one world receives a vision of a target player as 'seer' or 'not seer.' The result will be chosen by randomly selecting one of the remaining worlds where the player is the sorcerer and providing the result within that world (and hence eliminating any world where the result is the opposite). Each player receives a vision on Night 0 of one randomly chosen player that is 'not seer' if they are the sorcerer. Thereafter, the each player chooses which player to view.


Victory Conditions:

After the resolution of every dawn / dusk, a randomly selected remaining world will be chosen. If victory has been achieved in that world, the game will end, otherwise, every world in which victory has already been achieved will be discarded and the game will continue. Players may receive a major or minor victory depending on the number of worlds in which they were successful. The mod reserves the right to classify the game or individual players as Other if winning / losing comes solely down to chance.

Good - All good players win if all werewolves are eliminated, or if the last two players remaining are the hunter and one werewolf. The sorcerer does not have to be eliminated in order for Good to win.

Evil - All evil players win if the wolves achieve parity: if at any time the number of wolves remaining equals the number of non-wolves remaining (including the sorcerer), evil wins. However, if one wolf is left with the hunter, then good wins. The sorcerer counts as a 'non-wolf' for these purposes.



Neither the player's role or team is revealed upon lynch.

No posting at night.

Dusk will be at 4:00pm BGG.
Dawn will be at 4:30pm BGG.

Votes and orders timestamped with the times above count.

No game changing information after Dusk. Mod kills will be applied to player if necessary.

No lynch and nightfall are enabled.


Proof of Life:
As a daily requirement, you should have participated in the following ways by two hours prior to lynch:
a) Posted in thread
b) Voted or declared an intention not to vote
c) Submitted (placeholder) orders, if applicable
Anyone who does not meet this daily requirement will be put up for replacement.


From the Mod:
This game is intended to be a fun game for everyone, and any person who is acting against this goal will be replaced.
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Christopher
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Reserved
 
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Player List According to Cassandra:
Jedit
Kortemaki
ljtrigirl
Mimikyu
Royalflush
Smugs
TWM03
whirlingdervish
zenofkermit

9 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2031921
 
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Day (she/her)
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Tommy
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I just signed up for this game in at least 97% of the worlds. If it fills quickly (within the next few weeks) I probably won't be able to participate so I will need to be replaced in 44% of the worlds. This must surely be a hard game to mod! (In at least 88% of the worlds).
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I was just thinking how crazy this set would be with a mimic. So then I joined.
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Tommy
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Questions:

Will the priest get a full role reveal?
If the werewolves target different players, will a random one of those be killed?
How precisely will probabilities be given? (I am wondering if I will be able to calculate the total number of worlds at any time)
Are you using some sort of computer programme to run this? (I am guessing it will be necessary given that there are currently 30 240 possible worlds)
 
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Day (she/her)
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This is a total brain-buster for me, so expect me to be constantly confused, but I can't not.
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Christopher
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TWM03 wrote:
Questions:

Will the priest get a full role reveal?
If the werewolves target different players, will a random one of those be killed?
How precisely will probabilities be given? (I am wondering if I will be able to calculate the total number of worlds at any time)
Are you using some sort of computer programme to run this? (I am guessing it will be necessary given that there are currently 30 240 possible worlds)

Answers:

Every player who is a priest in at least one world will receive the following at Dawn: "If you are the priest, target player is X", where X is one of Seer, Hunter, Villager, Werewolf, or Sorcerer. So a priest view consists of a full role, and ensures that if you are the Priest, your views are correct.

How the NK works:
Suppose in the world where Alpha and Bravo are wolves, the following orders are submitted:
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Alpha, there is no valid target and the world is eliminated.
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Charlie, the pair targets Charlie, who is now dead in this world (but may still be alive in others).
- If Alpha and Bravo both target Charlie, the pair targets Charlie.
- If Alpha targets Charlie and Bravo targets Delta, the pair has two valid targets, and it is not clear which is the NK until either:
--- One of Charlie or Delta is later lynched, in which case the other was the NK.
--- One of Charlie or Delta is the only valid NK on a different night, in which case the other is the NK here.
--- Both are targeted again (Alpha targets Delta and Bravo targets Charlie), at which point both are now dead in this world.
So the short answer is that no one is dead until they are dead in all worlds, that is, they are the only valid target of every pair of wolves.

I'll give the nearest percent, but I'm also not opposed to posting the total number of worlds at each stage.

Yes, I have a spreadsheet set up for this.
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Tommy
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cvb2009 wrote:
TWM03 wrote:
Questions:

Will the priest get a full role reveal?
If the werewolves target different players, will a random one of those be killed?
How precisely will probabilities be given? (I am wondering if I will be able to calculate the total number of worlds at any time)
Are you using some sort of computer programme to run this? (I am guessing it will be necessary given that there are currently 30 240 possible worlds)

Answers:

Every player who is a priest in at least one world will receive the following at Dawn: "If you are the priest, target player is X", where X is one of Seer, Hunter, Villager, Werewolf, or Sorcerer. So a priest view consists of a full role, and ensures that if you are the Priest, your views are correct.

How the NK works:
Suppose in the world where Alpha and Bravo are wolves, the following orders are submitted:
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Alpha, there is no valid target and the world is eliminated.
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Charlie, the pair targets Charlie, who is now dead in this world (but may still be alive in others).
- If Alpha and Bravo both target Charlie, the pair targets Charlie.
- If Alpha targets Charlie and Bravo targets Delta, the pair has two valid targets, and it is not clear which is the NK until either:
--- One of Charlie or Delta is later lynched, in which case the other was the NK.
--- One of Charlie or Delta is the only valid NK on a different night, in which case the other is the NK here.
--- Both are targeted again (Alpha targets Delta and Bravo targets Charlie), at which point both are now dead in this world.
So the short answer is that no one is dead until they are dead in all worlds, that is, they are the only valid target of every pair of wolves.

I'll give the nearest percent, but I'm also not opposed to posting the total number of worlds at each stage.

Yes, I have a spreadsheet set up for this.

Thanks!
 
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Tommy
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TWM03 wrote:
cvb2009 wrote:
TWM03 wrote:
Questions:

Will the priest get a full role reveal?
If the werewolves target different players, will a random one of those be killed?
How precisely will probabilities be given? (I am wondering if I will be able to calculate the total number of worlds at any time)
Are you using some sort of computer programme to run this? (I am guessing it will be necessary given that there are currently 30 240 possible worlds)

Answers:

Every player who is a priest in at least one world will receive the following at Dawn: "If you are the priest, target player is X", where X is one of Seer, Hunter, Villager, Werewolf, or Sorcerer. So a priest view consists of a full role, and ensures that if you are the Priest, your views are correct.

How the NK works:
Suppose in the world where Alpha and Bravo are wolves, the following orders are submitted:
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Alpha, there is no valid target and the world is eliminated.
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Charlie, the pair targets Charlie, who is now dead in this world (but may still be alive in others).
- If Alpha and Bravo both target Charlie, the pair targets Charlie.
- If Alpha targets Charlie and Bravo targets Delta, the pair has two valid targets, and it is not clear which is the NK until either:
--- One of Charlie or Delta is later lynched, in which case the other was the NK.
--- One of Charlie or Delta is the only valid NK on a different night, in which case the other is the NK here.
--- Both are targeted again (Alpha targets Delta and Bravo targets Charlie), at which point both are now dead in this world.
So the short answer is that no one is dead until they are dead in all worlds, that is, they are the only valid target of every pair of wolves.

I'll give the nearest percent, but I'm also not opposed to posting the total number of worlds at each stage.

Yes, I have a spreadsheet set up for this.

Thanks!

So effectively each NK with two valid targets splits a world into two sub-worlds.
 
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Christopher
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TWM03 wrote:
TWM03 wrote:
cvb2009 wrote:
TWM03 wrote:
Questions:

Will the priest get a full role reveal?
If the werewolves target different players, will a random one of those be killed?
How precisely will probabilities be given? (I am wondering if I will be able to calculate the total number of worlds at any time)
Are you using some sort of computer programme to run this? (I am guessing it will be necessary given that there are currently 30 240 possible worlds)

Answers:

Every player who is a priest in at least one world will receive the following at Dawn: "If you are the priest, target player is X", where X is one of Seer, Hunter, Villager, Werewolf, or Sorcerer. So a priest view consists of a full role, and ensures that if you are the Priest, your views are correct.

How the NK works:
Suppose in the world where Alpha and Bravo are wolves, the following orders are submitted:
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Alpha, there is no valid target and the world is eliminated.
- If Alpha targets Bravo and Bravo targets Charlie, the pair targets Charlie, who is now dead in this world (but may still be alive in others).
- If Alpha and Bravo both target Charlie, the pair targets Charlie.
- If Alpha targets Charlie and Bravo targets Delta, the pair has two valid targets, and it is not clear which is the NK until either:
--- One of Charlie or Delta is later lynched, in which case the other was the NK.
--- One of Charlie or Delta is the only valid NK on a different night, in which case the other is the NK here.
--- Both are targeted again (Alpha targets Delta and Bravo targets Charlie), at which point both are now dead in this world.
So the short answer is that no one is dead until they are dead in all worlds, that is, they are the only valid target of every pair of wolves.

I'll give the nearest percent, but I'm also not opposed to posting the total number of worlds at each stage.

Yes, I have a spreadsheet set up for this.

Thanks!

So effectively each NK with two valid targets splits a world into two sub-worlds.

Yes, that's right.
 
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Jason
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I just signed up to Heisenberg all over the place.
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Jason
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I think I understand how this will work, but it would be helpful to see an example play-through of a few days if you have the time and inclination.

Also, if you want I can help in moderating. But I'm interested to play as well.
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Christopher
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zenofkermit wrote:
I think I understand how this will work, but it would be helpful to see an example play-through of a few days if you have the time and inclination.

Also, if you want I can help in moderating. But I'm interested to play as well.

It was helpful to ensure things were working correctly as well.

Here's a Google Doc with the major events of a sample play-through (I assume choosing all actions randomly is not a winning strategy generally though):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O4e9wY32fO0RZk9i_2rSxCBU...

Let me know if anything there isn't clear.

Looks like things are under control, happy to have you play! Thanks for the offer to help in moderating!
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Crafting Table
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This is a terrible way to read Korte FWIW.
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I love this so much but realistically I can't play for at least two weeks, probably three. If this is still in signups then, I'll jump in.

Have you thought about making the whole thing quantum, in the sense that nobody is revealed as having died until the game ends? In this setup, NKed player votes still count which may change lynch results in kind of time breaking ways, which are pretty consistently pro-good.

If you did it as I'm suggesting, lynch would not change the NK order and also would not result in player elimination. Somebody would be dead, though, they just wouldn't know it yet. Spooky.

It wouldn't have player elimination, though, which is a plus in my book!
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This is a terrible way to read Korte FWIW.
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I'm considering running a complex hi-set game with player pair chats entitled "Hi, I want to play 166,320 simultaneous games of WW online" that sets things up this way, but I want to think about how it would play a bit more.

My gut says seers are too powerful and a determined village will be able to math things out in enough worlds where it will boil down to which players want to decide the other players don't win. Of course, if that's an issue, you can shake things up by scoring based on the number of worlds in which each player won where they were evil
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This is a terrible way to read Korte FWIW.
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Kortemaki wrote:
I'm considering running a complex hi-set game with player pair chats entitled "Hi, I want to play 166,320 simultaneous games of WW online" that sets things up this way, but I want to think about how it would play a bit more.

My gut says seers are too powerful and a determined village will be able to math things out in enough worlds where it will boil down to which players want to decide the other players don't win. Of course, if that's an issue, you can shake things up by scoring based on the number of worlds in which each player won where they were evil

Probably I'd run a few 125ers first
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Kortemaki wrote:
Kortemaki wrote:
I'm considering running a complex hi-set game with player pair chats entitled "Hi, I want to play 166,320 simultaneous games of WW online" that sets things up this way, but I want to think about how it would play a bit more.

My gut says seers are too powerful and a determined village will be able to math things out in enough worlds where it will boil down to which players want to decide the other players don't win. Of course, if that's an issue, you can shake things up by scoring based on the number of worlds in which each player won where they were evil

Probably I'd run a few 125ers first

"No, I'm telling you, we lynched my N0 hit, so I can't be seer. You need to self vote"
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Christopher
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Kortemaki wrote:
I love this so much but realistically I can't play for at least two weeks, probably three. If this is still in signups then, I'll jump in.

Have you thought about making the whole thing quantum, in the sense that nobody is revealed as having died until the game ends? In this setup, NKed player votes still count which may change lynch results in kind of time breaking ways, which are pretty consistently pro-good.

If you did it as I'm suggesting, lynch would not change the NK order and also would not result in player elimination. Somebody would be dead, though, they just wouldn't know it yet. Spooky.

It wouldn't have player elimination, though, which is a plus in my book!

One thought I did have that I didn't end up going with was that everyone's vote strength is equal to their probability of being alive that day, but I think that leads to essentially the same issues.

So your sort of bringing in the time travel aspect where we find out later that a player was dead and their vote no longer counts? Am I understanding that correctly?

I need to do a bit more thinking to wrap my head around this, but it sounds plausible. The only awkward bit is the D1 lynch is effectively guaranteed. Maybe skip it (i.e. pretend I was lynched D1) and start on N1 with the additional information?
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Christopher
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Kortemaki wrote:
Kortemaki wrote:
I'm considering running a complex hi-set game with player pair chats entitled "Hi, I want to play 166,320 simultaneous games of WW online" that sets things up this way, but I want to think about how it would play a bit more.

My gut says seers are too powerful and a determined village will be able to math things out in enough worlds where it will boil down to which players want to decide the other players don't win. Of course, if that's an issue, you can shake things up by scoring based on the number of worlds in which each player won where they were evil

Probably I'd run a few 125ers first

That's definitely intriguing.
 
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Jeremy Likens
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Sounds crazy... and fun. In.
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Christopher
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And we appear to be full!

Since this game has been in sign-up for a couple months, I sent a geekmail to the current roster asking for confirmations and hope to start the game by Tuesday.

If any one would like to be an alternate in case not everyone confirms, please let me know, either in thread or by geekmail.
 
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David Chapman
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I just signed up on Cassandra.
 
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Christopher
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We're full again!

Setting up, no posting please.

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