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Eclipse: Second Dawn for the Galaxy» Forums » Crowdfunding

Subject: Have the Rift Cannons been re-balanced for 2nd Dawn? rss

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Ville Mankinen
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I always thought the Rift Cannons were somewhat overpowered (the Rift Turret especially so) in the 1st edition. Seeing how they are now an apparent last-minute addition to this Kickstarter campaign I'm afraid they may not have been tested enough with the new rules. I sure hope this is not the case.

Can anyone in the know comment on this? Thanks in advance.
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Jim Parkin
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I didn’t think they were. I hope they are unchanged in second edition.
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Alexander
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I dont believe this is a Last minute Streich Goal.
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Rom tos
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I wish all the stretch goals would've been more like this. Then the expansion would've been more full of content. And earlier in the list of stretch goals, because now it's a barely reachable stretch goal after all the nonsense ones. And why did the gap between stretch goals need to be widened?

I'm backing the game, but the KS has been extremely amateurish.
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neko flying
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Villain wrote:
I always thought the Rift Cannons were somewhat overpowered (the Rift Turret especially so) in the 1st edition. Seeing how they are now an apparent last-minute addition to this Kickstarter campaign I'm afraid they may not have been tested enough with the new rules. I sure hope this is not the case.

Can anyone in the know comment on this? Thanks in advance.


I agree that they were OP and I hope they have been nerfed a bit. I trust Touko to have made the right call on this one.
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Dwight Sullivan
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Villain wrote:
... they are now an apparent last-minute addition to this Kickstarter campaign I'm afraid they may not have been tested enough with the new rules. I sure hope this is not the case.

Can anyone in the know comment on this? Thanks in advance.

I dont think anything about this KS has been last minute. I think it has been very calculated. They have known from the beginning that rift cannons were a a last-48-hour stretch goal.

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?
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luis dlc
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Ha ha ha!
 
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Anthony Simons
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Xaqery wrote:

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?

They create a rift in the space-time continuum that causes a ship’s hull to be torn apart; however, the instability of such a weapon can result in a backfire effect, causing damage to the firing ship.
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Dwight Sullivan
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fellonmyhead wrote:
Xaqery wrote:

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?

They create a rift in the space-time continuum that causes a ship’s hull to be torn apart; however, the instability of such a weapon can result in a backfire effect, causing damage to the firing ship.

Can you please be more specific? How many dice do you get? how much damage do they do? How much damage do they do to your ships?

EDIT -
Even this thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1439462/eclipse-shadow-rift...
Doesnt help much.
 
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Dave Chandler
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Xaqery wrote:
fellonmyhead wrote:
Xaqery wrote:

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?

They create a rift in the space-time continuum that causes a ship’s hull to be torn apart; however, the instability of such a weapon can result in a backfire effect, causing damage to the firing ship.

Can you please be more specific? How many dice do you get? how much damage do they do? How much damage do they do to your ships?

EDIT -
Even this thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1439462/eclipse-shadow-rift...
Doesnt help much.


They're weapon that lets you roll 'Rift Dice' to attack opponents.

Rift dice are different from all of the other dice in the game. Instead of needing to roll a number to do damage, and increasing the damage based on the quality of the weapon, rift dice just DO the damage shown on the dice.

2 sides are blank. No damage. One side does 1 damage, one side does 2, one side does 3 and also does one damage to your own ships, and one only does one damage to your own ships, it doesn't hurt the opponent at all.

They are a blast. Tons of fun. They're a great way to deal with opponents who have lots of shields, or when computers don't come out very much. It's also a lot of fun to throw them on little kamikaze interceptors and shout "WITNESS ME" when you bring a horde of them into battle.

Competitively, you can pair these up with other ships that have a lot of hull to absorb the damage they do.
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Anthony Simons
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Xaqery wrote:
fellonmyhead wrote:
Xaqery wrote:

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?

They create a rift in the space-time continuum that causes a ship’s hull to be torn apart; however, the instability of such a weapon can result in a backfire effect, causing damage to the firing ship.

Can you please be more specific? How many dice do you get? how much damage do they do? How much damage do they do to your ships?

EDIT -
Even this thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1439462/eclipse-shadow-rift...
Doesnt help much.

Ah; I thought you were being funny, and that you actually knew their effects (because you commented on the planning of the stretch goal). Apologies for that; Dave has summarised them very well above.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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fellonmyhead wrote:
Xaqery wrote:
fellonmyhead wrote:
Xaqery wrote:

EDIT -
PS - What do Rift cannons do?

They create a rift in the space-time continuum that causes a ship’s hull to be torn apart; however, the instability of such a weapon can result in a backfire effect, causing damage to the firing ship.

Can you please be more specific? How many dice do you get? how much damage do they do? How much damage do they do to your ships?

EDIT -
Even this thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1439462/eclipse-shadow-rift...
Doesnt help much.

Ah; I thought you were being funny, and that you actually knew their effects (because you commented on the planning of the stretch goal). Apologies for that; Dave has summarised them very well above.

Yep thanks Dave!

I have 1ED + RotA. I never got the SotR expansion.
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Ville Mankinen
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The way we houseruled them in 1st edition was simply that the enemy got to assign the damage a misfiring Rift Cannon caused to its user. Allowing the user to assign that damage (like the original rules said) led too easily to gamey situations, where some useless ship always took the Rift Cannon misfire and completely negated their drawback. Hopefully they have changed at least that aspect, if nothing else.
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Brian C
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Also hope they fix them. They did a lot of damage for s single one power part. The drawback (1/3 chance if a self damage) was pretty insignificant considering you could assign the damage yourself.

Rift Turret Discovery was straight up broken and the only 1E thing I’d refuse to play with.
 
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Paul Brown
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I trust they know what they are doing. Worst case you take out that one rare tech as a house rule and they are gone.

I'm MUCH more concerned that 4 rift dice won't be enough again. Man was it annoying having to reroll those 4 dice because you needed 10 of them. I wish the extra dice stretch goals included more of these since I can always buy more basic d6 but not more of these.
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Ivan Alaiz
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I’m not backing but I very much wish to see the campaign reach 900k precisely to know the answer to this question...
 
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Ben Collins
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Weirdly I thought rift cannons were a bit underpowered by late game. Early on they’re super powerful, but by late game they’re pretty meh when everyone else is rocking antimatter cannons.
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Ville Mankinen
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UnalignedMagi wrote:
I trust they know what they are doing. Worst case you take out that one rare tech as a house rule and they are gone.


I'd hate to be forced to take anything out from a game that otherwise appears to be very carefully balanced. Considering all the small tweaks they have made to improve this 2nd edition, it'd be a poor choice to leave Rift Cannons unchanged. At the very least, they should nerf Rift Turret - it is way more overpowered than vanilla Plasma Missiles ever were.
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Jeremy Goldring
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The balance of rift cannons was fine in 1e. It's only the rift turret that needs balancing, with the easiest fix to add a significant power requirement to it.
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Touko Tahkokallio
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Note: some of the assets revealed on the campaign page do not necessarily exactly reflect the actual printed end product. It is quite possible that we will implement some minor tweaks here and there compared to what is shown on the campaign page currently.
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Dwight Sullivan
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Hypojezza wrote:
The balance of rift cannons was fine in 1e. It's only the rift turret that needs balancing, with the easiest fix to add a significant power requirement to it.

2ED Rift Cannons and Turrets both require 1 power. Is that more than 1ED?
 
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Xaqery wrote:
Hypojezza wrote:
The balance of rift cannons was fine in 1e. It's only the rift turret that needs balancing, with the easiest fix to add a significant power requirement to it.

2ED Rift Cannons and Turrets both require 1 power. Is that more than 1ED?


1E rift turret required 0 power, cannon required 1. In the tournament at gen con we ban the rift turret because it was waaaay too strong.

The issue with it is a rift turret plus lots of improved hull is really powerful and requires only one tech. Even if you bump the power requirement up to 2 energy, you still can use it plus a simple drive and lots of hull. Instead if you get lucky enough to draw it you would draw 2 other discoveries and pick 1.

I can tell you I will ABSOLUTELY remove it from my copy, that thing is just too strong.

Cannons were fine though. Late game they weren't very effective.
 
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neko flying
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Touko wrote:
Note: some of the assets revealed on the campaign page do not necessarily exactly reflect the actual printed end product. It is quite possible that we will implement some minor tweaks here and there compared to what is shown on the campaign page currently.


That is great to hear, Touko. It is very nice to know that you will be fine tuning further. Thanks!
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Elia - "Rainbow Hippie" Acca
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Aside from balance considerations, it's also worth noticing that having the opponent assign rift collateral damage makes combat much more exciting. Rift weapons do become this weird unstable weapon that everybody is a bit wary of, including the owner.

A single damage assigned by the attacking player is more often than not essentially inconsequential.
 
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Walter Kolczynski
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How about having the ship that used the Rift Cannon be the one that is damaged? Doesn't that make the most thematic sense?
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