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B-17: Queen of the Skies» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ace question rss

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Steve Ward
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It says that 5 KIA’s makes one an Ace. The odds of hitting a 6 for a hit is 16%. Once you make a hit you still need to roll a 5 or 6 for a kill thus a 33.33% chance. Right now I’m on my 10th mission and the ball turret has 4 Kia’s. The past 3 missions he’s fired a lot and scores a hit but just can’t get the kill. 5 KIA’s just seems like a lot. My thinking is a gunner would get a good idea on how to lead his shots for a hit fairly quickly. Am I missing a modifier other then the twin gun bonus that occasionally applies? The only one I see is in the event rolls where a gunner becomes an Ace for one flight. I’m thinking there should be a table that you roll at the mission setup were you have a chance for one gunner to have a good day. Maybe on missions outside the fighter cover area. What do you guys think.

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René Christensen
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You'll get a modifier when he becomes an Ace!
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Steve Ward
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Slotracer wrote:
You'll get a modifier when he becomes an Ace!


Yes I noticed that but to reach 5 KIA’s seems pretty hard for a gunner to reach as he’ll more the likely take a SW or KIA first. 5 just seems to long for a gunner to become an Ace.
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Lou Correia
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It did take a LONG time for a gunner to become an Ace. The game is more generous than history. There is a Random Event that allows a gunner to be an "Ace for the Day".

Here is the short list of recognized gunner aces in WW II.

USAAF/US Navy:

S/SGT Michael Arooth- 17: 8 AF- USAAF- B-17(Tail Gunner)
S/SGT Arthur J. Benko -16: 14AF- USAAF- B-24(Top Turret)
S/SGT Donald Crossley-12: 8 AF- USAAF-B-17 (Tail Gunner)
S/SGT Benjamin F Warner- 9: 12 AF-USAAF- B-17 (Waist Gunner)
S/SGT John B Quinlan -8: 8 AF/20 AF-USAAF- B-17(5),B-29(3)(Tail Gunner)(Gunner on Memphis Belle)
T/SGT Thomas Dye -8: 8 AF -USAAF-B-17(Ball Turret)
S/SGT John D. Foley-7: 5 AF- USAAF-B-26(Top Turret)
S/SGT John A. Murphy-6: 5 AF- USAAF- B-25(Top Turret)
T/SGT Weston (Wes) Loegering-5: 9 AF -USAAF-B-26 (Top Turret)
SFC Richard H Thomas-5: US Navy-PB4Y (B-24)(Front Turret)
ARM2 Paul Ganshirt-5: US Navy-PB4Y(B-24)(Top Turret)

Only 5 B-17 gunners in the entire war were recognized as Aces!
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craig grinnell
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Binderchk wrote:
Slotracer wrote:
You'll get a modifier when he becomes an Ace!


Yes I noticed that but to reach 5 KIA’s seems pretty hard for a gunner to reach as he’ll more the likely take a SW or KIA first. 5 just seems to long for a gunner to become an Ace.


That's what makes an ACE. it's hard to get, which is why everyone isn't an ace. It follows the same line as fighter pilots. 5 Air to Air kills makes a fighter pilot an ace. they're REALLY hard to get.
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Edmund Hon
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Limburger59 wrote:
S/SGT Michael Arooth- 17: 8 AF- USAAF- B-17(Tail Gunner)


I think Arooth was also mentioned in the notes section of one of the play-aid cards. He was proficient with the "pass-thru" shot against German fighters passing through his formation after making a head-on attack.
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John Kovacs
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I have to agree that in most cases the game makes it easier for a B-17 gunner to become an ace. I had one long mission where my tail gunner shot down 7 planes! Hot dice, maybe, but not especially realistic. Damn fun though!
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Thomas Fowler
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue about ‘who killed who’.
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Taskforce 58
“I think Arooth was also mentioned in the notes section of one of the play-aid cards. He was proficient with the "pass-thru" shot against German fighters passing through his formation after making a head-on attack.”

Infomanohio
“...I had one long mission where my tail gunner shot down 7 planes! Hot dice, maybe, but not especially realistic. Damn fun though!”

*****

On my now MIA Desert Rat, tail gunner Adam Smith joined the crew on overall mission#2. He survived 25 missions, flying on both the Desert Rat and then the Hell’s Belle, getting wounded several times during his tour. He took awhile to get Ace status, overall mission#12.

He became “proficient with the ‘pass-thru’ shot,” and he also got additional chances to add to his score during the longer, problematic missions, like when he filled in on the top turret on mission #21, after the tail guns had been knocked out, and the top turret gunner was seriously wounded.

Notably, on the missions when the bomber was being swamped by enemy fighters, that was when he raised his score dramatically. Partly luck of the dice, partly a target-rich environment.

I had one bombardier obtain Ace status, slowly like everyone else, only to lose him to wounds later in the same mission. Getting an Ace on the nose gun is difficult in my experience.

It takes awhile to acquire Ace gunners, but that also means you really appreciate them while you’ve got them, and it is especially poignant when you lose them.
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John Kovacs
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Patterns of Pillage wrote:
Taskforce 58
“I think Arooth was also mentioned in the notes section of one of the play-aid cards. He was proficient with the "pass-thru" shot against German fighters passing through his formation after making a head-on attack.”

Infomanohio
“...I had one long mission where my tail gunner shot down 7 planes! Hot dice, maybe, but not especially realistic. Damn fun though!”

*****

On my now MIA Desert Rat, tail gunner Adam Smith joined the crew on overall mission#2. He survived 25 missions, flying on both the Desert Rat and then the Hell’s Belle, getting wounded several times during his tour. He took awhile to get Ace status, overall mission#12.

He became “proficient with the ‘pass-thru’ shot,” and he also got additional chances to add to his score during the longer, problematic missions, like when he filled in on the top turret on mission #21, after the tail guns had been knocked out, and the top turret gunner was seriously wounded.

Notably, on the missions when the bomber was being swamped by enemy fighters, that was when he raised his score dramatically. Partly luck of the dice, partly a target-rich environment.

I had one bombardier obtain Ace status, slowly like everyone else, only to lose him to wounds later in the same mission. Getting an Ace on the nose gun is difficult in my experience.

It takes awhile to acquire Ace gunners, but that also means you really appreciate them while you’ve got them, and it is especially poignant when you lose them.



I looked back at the AAR for the 7 kill mission - my tail gunner got three of them with passing shots. He became an Ace and a double Ace on the same mission. He went on to get 17 total kills before becoming a POW several missions later. I haven't had any other gunner get close to those numbers.
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