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Subject: Incentive for attacking the Vagabond? rss

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Trey Chambers
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mazmaz wrote:
But they have a very good incentive to attack the vagabond already: stop him from winning.


Right, but this is still problematic for reasons that have already been discussed in depth in this thread.
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
But they have a very good incentive to attack the vagabond already: stop him from winning.

Right, but this is still problematic for reasons that have already been discussed in depth in this thread.

Not really problematic, given that all players are able to figure out which one is the faction more likely to win after the vagabond. Hence the second part of my post:
mazmaz wrote:
If this is about who needs to attack him *first*, it should be the second fastest faction.

They may not like "losing" one turn, as this momentarily delays them, but that's the way it is. Maybe the third or fourth faction are now in the lead. Maybe not. This constant need to parse the board and vp count of all the factions involved is what makes this game so great. I don't mind if sometimes I'm put in the position of needing to risk my second place to have the chance of winning later.
 
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Trey Chambers
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mazmaz wrote:

Not really problematic, given that all players are able to figure out which one is the faction more likely to win after the vagabond.


Read the thread. That argument was addressed as well.
 
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I'm subscribed from the start. This quote synthesizes your main issues with the game: "The point is that attacking the Vagabond (1) doesn't gain you points like attacking the other players does (2) helps keep the Vagabond in check but at the cost of your precious actions", and you call them "problematic". I don't find those are gameplay "issues", much less "problematic", but I understand there will be players who don't find these characteristics fair, likeable, or fun. That's ok. I do, and so do many players.

My point is that attacking the Vagabond (1) prevents you from losing to him, which is incentive enough and (2) the whole game is about keeping in check all your rivals, who in turn will need to do the same, i.e. playing suboptimally to deal with their faster opponents, unless they are the fastest and thus the target of the rest.

Whether you advance or not your position is not important when stopping someone from winning, but preventing your loss is. There are no prizes for the 2nd and 3rd players on the VP track. There's just one winner and multiple losers.
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Trey Chambers
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mazmaz wrote:
I'm subscribed from the start. This quote synthesizes your main issues with the game: "The point is that attacking the Vagabond (1) doesn't gain you points like attacking the other players does (2) helps keep the Vagabond in check but at the cost of your precious actions", and you call them "problematic". I don't find those are gameplay "issues", much less "problematic", but I understand there will be players who don't find these characteristics fair, likeable, or fun. That's ok. I do, and so do many players.

My point is that attacking the Vagabond (1) prevents you from losing to him, which is incentive enough and (2) the whole game is about keeping in check all your rivals, who in turn will need to do the same, i.e. playing suboptimally to deal with their faster opponents, unless they are the fastest and thus the target of the rest.

Whether you advance or not your position is not important when stopping someone from winning, but preventing your loss is. There are no prizes for the 2nd and 3rd players on the VP track. There's just one winner and multiple losers.


Like, I'm happy to keep discussing this, but you're just regurgitating points I already rebutted on pages 1 and 2 of the thread. If you didn't agree with or understand my points then, me repeating them is not going to help you.
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