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Subject: Single Serving with Mike: 33 - They had it coming all along! rss

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Mike Beiter
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PaperF wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
RIP

Mike, phenomenally played.
Pretending replacements didn't happen, there was probably about a 1% chance of us losing this game.
If cultist was someone else I think we're very likely to win but it's not certain, but with you, almost no chance of losing imo
I think that if LJ had been alive at the end, it would have been hard in a final 3. I was ready to lynch Mike and you though. His post where he was talking about xand being evil and then voting was very evil like.

True. But that post was made on like page 5 of this thread, and I spent the next 20 pages defending and justifying my stance. I was super good cleared by so many reads by mid game that I was way off most radars.

Another reason you being subbed in was unfair because I spent so much time manipulating the town and gaining cred and it got washed away when everyone good left.

And I did not have the energy to do it all again. 😛

If you ever play with me in real life, you'll quickly learn that I always give off an evil vibe.
So I need to spend the first 3 days earning trust.

And it appears to hold true in PBF. 3 new players sub in and are going to be sudpicious of me.
And there isn't enough game time left to clear myself.


 
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ortho_ wrote:
Aw man, I didn't get to do my research project on how Benes reads LJ.

I think you would have lynched her if you did.

I instantly voted her on d2 and then talked about not wanting to be paranoid.

Then I said to lynch her if she makes it to the f3.

There as a lot of not wanting to engage Talk around that I did, because I know she makes me sound crazy when I am right that she is evil. I was honestly relying on Mike to find my suspicions on her and Vanders and rally everyone.

That didn't work out for some reason.

angry kiss
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Mike Beiter
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Before I forget!

One of my favorite momemts was when LJ used the word "bonkers", that made me giggle!

One moment she was dropping F bombs. The next she said, bonkers. 😁😂
 
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Benesephiir wrote:
ortho_ wrote:
Aw man, I didn't get to do my research project on how Benes reads LJ.

I think you would have lynched her if you did.


I wanted to lynch her regardless. Even before the replacements Rorab flipping good meant both LJ and Vander were evil.

The only thing the Ryagic replacement meant was that there was an evil in Mike and Sarah.
 
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Hey everyone.

First of all, I need to apologize for basically crashing the game, it was not my intent at all.

Let me say that while most of you this was a very normal pleasant game I had with you, I replaced out because I had a number of frustrations with a few people that made me genuinely upset (in addition to some frustration with myself). I really don't want to go into detail with naming these or naming who it isn't because I think that creates a lot of bad blood. And I'm not going to keep bringing them up or hold much of a grudge here, so I really think me taking a few days off is for the best.

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

As I said before I don't really want to name names. And I don't really know how to deal with this and I realize this post is all kinds of vague, so if you have a good idea for how I should deal with it I would love to hear about that (probably not in thread). I feel like naming my specific issues would name individuals as well, further complicating this.

--------------------------------------

That said congratulations to Mike for being a very successful evil in this game! Also to ortho, you replaced into a very hard spot, so I would say not getting lynched is a huge success! And paper for having such good reads in such a limited time!

And thank you to Tokah for running it, sorry I ruined it soblue
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Ryagic wrote:
Hey everyone.

First of all, I need to apologize for basically crashing the game, it was not my intent at all.

Let me say that while most of you this was a very normal pleasant game I had with you, I replaced out because I had a number of frustrations with a few people that made me genuinely upset (in addition to some frustration with myself). I really don't want to go into detail with naming these or naming who it isn't because I think that creates a lot of bad blood. And I'm not going to keep bringing them up or hold much of a grudge here, so I really think me taking a few days off is for the best.

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

As I said before I don't really want to name names. And I don't really know how to deal with this and I realize this post is all kinds of vague, so if you have a good idea for how I should deal with it I would love to hear about that (probably not in thread). I feel like naming my specific issues would name individuals as well, further complicating this.

--------------------------------------

That said congratulations to Mike for being a very successful evil in this game! Also to ortho, you replaced into a very hard spot, so I would say not getting lynched is a huge success! And paper for having such good reads in such a limited time!

And thank you to Tokah for running it, sorry I ruined it soblue

You did what you felt you needed to do for yourself.

I would never hold that against you.

I look forward to our next game!
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My advice would be to talk to the people who frustrated you one-to-one via GM or something. Short of just never playing with people that frustrate you, you're always gonna come up against some people that do things or say things that you don't like - and I think the best method of dealing with that is to just straight-up engage in conversation with them about how it happened, why it happened, and how best to have it not happen in future games. If not, then you tried - and at least then they'll probably be more clear on making sure to avoid it with you and such =)
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Also apologies to goods for my lynch day, sometimes late on in games I get stuck in worldviews and can't re-evaluate for toffee, and I was just so sure I couldn't shift my view that I was willing to die for it. Evil Vanders and Mike did a great job in just asserting that that sort of gambit was evil, which is credit to them - but I knew I just couldn't say anymore because I had nothing left to say, that was my perspective and I was right or wrong but either way it was all I had at that point, and so I had nothing to engage with anyone on anymore.
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Ryagic wrote:
sorry I ruined it soblue


I don't regard this game as ruined. I had a great time even though we got smoked.

I think it would have been preferable if it had come to a natural conclusion, but every evil should feel as though they fairly won the game. And every good should realize we ended up getting beat and that without replacements we almost certainly would lose.


I don't think you should feel bad.

(If I'm part of the problem you had with the game, feel free to send me a GM. You don't have to indicate in-thread whether it's yes or no. Just drop me a line if you feel comfortable. I'm happy to try to tailor my behaviors to not annoy others, and have done so in the past.)
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The_Rorab wrote:
My advice would be to talk to the people who frustrated you one-to-one via GM or something. Short of just never playing with people that frustrate you, you're always gonna come up against some people that do things or say things that you don't like - and I think the best method of dealing with that is to just straight-up engage in conversation with them about how it happened, why it happened, and how best to have it not happen in future games. If not, then you tried - and at least then they'll probably be more clear on making sure to avoid it with you and such =)

Well said! Now that the game is over I can stop pretending to ignore your posts. 😉
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
My advice would be to talk to the people who frustrated you one-to-one via GM or something. Short of just never playing with people that frustrate you, you're always gonna come up against some people that do things or say things that you don't like - and I think the best method of dealing with that is to just straight-up engage in conversation with them about how it happened, why it happened, and how best to have it not happen in future games. If not, then you tried - and at least then they'll probably be more clear on making sure to avoid it with you and such =)

Well said! Now that the game is over I can stop pretending to ignore your posts. 😉

Hahahaha =)
 
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I think it helps if you separate two things:

1. Someone did something wrong and blame needs to be assigned.

2. Something is broken and isn't working anymore, so continuing it is bad.

It seems to me a lot of people feel they can't proactively assert #2 without some kind of #1 basis to fall back to. (See: most breakups!)

There are a lot of reasons this game crashed, and no one person is responsible for all of them. Some of them had nothing to do with this game in particular, and had to do with how people handled scheduling and pushing of other games being run and the ripple effects of those decisions.

The important thing is that it is over, rather than pretending it is not.
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Vanderscamp wrote:
TFang wrote:
Heya, guys. I'm not feverish now, so let's start there.

This is going to be extremely unusual, but I have literally NEVER seen this situation before (in a little over 3.5 years!), so anything I did was going to have to be pretty unique. Edit - I mean a situation where every single good has replaced out, none of the evils have, and all but one of those replacements is on the must lynch day.

I also want to clarify that I've not read the cultist's chat or wolf chat before making this decision, and it isn't at their request.

I am calling the game here, and as of my information now (which is incomplete, I've been sick and not strongly monitoring you all), it seems like this is an evil win.

Many apologies to the n3/D4 replacements, and I thank you for your willingness. One of you can seriously shift and endgame, and that is a risk we take to play a week by week hobby, and something evil can push through and try to win. THREE of you is something I don't see how evil could ever fight against on a reasonable basis!

Some of you expressed why you replaced out in mod chat, and some of those cases had a lot to do with stretching yourselves too thin, one mentioned frustration but it didn't show up in recent posts so I don't now what cuased it, but dead chat suggests there are other things going on, and I'd like to know what those are before I make any final calls. But the game is over.

Thanks Tfang, I'm on board with this decision.
good job evil team. you all had me convinced
 
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Nick Vallina
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this was a lot of fun
and I'm chalking it up as a personal victory for getting an aux hit n1 my first time as aux seer
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Ryagic wrote:

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

I agree completely with this. I also resent the suggestion that I was somehow 'conceding' by replacing out. I actually think we had a pretty decent chance before that, so why would I concede? I wasn't trying to compromise the game, in fact, doing the opposite. Despite the fact that I was originally very confident LJ was evil, if I get to the point where I don't care about her alignment anymore, I'm not moving regardless, I think that's already compromised. I think Ryagic replacing probably took us from an evil win to a pretty good chance, but if he was at the same sort of point as me, then the game was compromised already, not compromised by him leaving.
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dejojam1 wrote:
Ryagic wrote:

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

I agree completely with this. I also resent the suggestion that I was somehow 'conceding' by replacing out. I actually think we had a pretty decent chance before that, so why would I concede? I wasn't trying to compromise the game, in fact, doing the opposite. Despite the fact that I was originally very confident LJ was evil, if I get to the point where I don't care about her alignment anymore, I'm not moving regardless, I think that's already compromised. I think Ryagic replacing probably took us from an evil win to a pretty good chance, but if he was at the same sort of point as me, then the game was compromised already, not compromised by him leaving.

I agree with you on the conceding thing, I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't any reason for you replacing out. The thing is, that regardless of intention, replacements will add meta to a game - it's unfortunate necessity, but it's just a fact - people will always read into replacements and there's no way around it, because you can't just lock people into the game, and it does more damage to modkill them in my opinion. Like, at no point do I think what Ryagic did in replacing out was unfair or wrong and I'll argue that to the death, but it does change the game in a way not linked to game actions, and that's a really tough dilemma when something happens which makes your experience untenable =)
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Kara "Athena" Thrace
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It was a lot of fun watching the game through Mike's modchat!
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The_Rorab wrote:
dejojam1 wrote:
Ryagic wrote:

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

I agree completely with this. I also resent the suggestion that I was somehow 'conceding' by replacing out. I actually think we had a pretty decent chance before that, so why would I concede? I wasn't trying to compromise the game, in fact, doing the opposite. Despite the fact that I was originally very confident LJ was evil, if I get to the point where I don't care about her alignment anymore, I'm not moving regardless, I think that's already compromised. I think Ryagic replacing probably took us from an evil win to a pretty good chance, but if he was at the same sort of point as me, then the game was compromised already, not compromised by him leaving.

I agree with you on the conceding thing, I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't any reason for you replacing out. The thing is, that regardless of intention, replacements will add meta to a game - it's unfortunate necessity, but it's just a fact - people will always read into replacements and there's no way around it, because you can't just lock people into the game, and it does more damage to modkill them in my opinion. Like, at no point do I think what Ryagic did in replacing out was unfair or wrong and I'll argue that to the death, but it does change the game in a way not linked to game actions =)

This is a very tricky subject. I do understand where everyone is coming from. I need to empathize here.

Bottom line, any way you slice it, when a person leaves a game, be it quits, subs out etc. The entire narrative is disrupted and broken.
It becomes a new game at that point and as a group we need to decide how to move forward or if you should just scrap the game and start over.

Like in real life, if you are playing any game involving heavy interaction betwixt players with an overarching narrative and one person quits. Usually it means the game is going sour and 9 times out of 10 we restart a new game.

And that's pretty much what happened here. The fun left the game. It got emotional. The narrative changed and we stopped. It was the best decision.

***I do want to apopogize for my use of "conceeding". I certainly did not mean to offend anyone. I felt we were all playing quite well and I acknowledge that people didn't straight up just give up, they had to leave for their own sanity.
And I totally respect and understand that. Like I said before, I won't resent a person for doing what is right for them in those moments.
No one wanted to ruin the game.

The way I visualized it was, there were 7 people at a game table. 4 on one team and 3 on the other, and three people on the same team were getting ftustrated and left. Again, they had their reasons.

To give you a little insight about how my head works. I have big pet peeves connected to staying in games.
Like if I join a game, I stick it out to the end. I never give up no matter how insurmountable the odds.

So when I see a person leave a game, regardless of reason, it does irk me.
I own that.

So when I see people leave, especially if it disrupts the game flow, I'm going to get annoyed.

So if my use of conceed came off to harsh, I apologize. I mean no disrespect.
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hibou
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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A few things:

1) I was so convinced that ortho was the Cutlist, I'm shocked that it's Mike. Dude, you were awesome. I almost never considered it was you. I think Vanders thought it was Ryagic.

2) I wholeheartedly agree with calling the game. I asked Tokah to just call it a draw, but knowing that literally every good seat left in the game emotionally replaced out makes me agree with calling it for evil. That was bonkers. I was having a really hard time coming up with a sustainable narrative for a fourth evil.

3) I do think we would have won anyways. Vanders and are both kind notorious for hating bussing, and we decided early that me strategically bussing him would be potentially game winning, so we went for it.
 
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Every time I even tried to hint to team evil Sarah was ALL over it.

I do not look forward to being evil with her as good in future games as she clearly has my number!
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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Ryagic wrote:
Hey everyone.

First of all, I need to apologize for basically crashing the game, it was not my intent at all.

Let me say that while most of you this was a very normal pleasant game I had with you, I replaced out because I had a number of frustrations with a few people that made me genuinely upset (in addition to some frustration with myself). I really don't want to go into detail with naming these or naming who it isn't because I think that creates a lot of bad blood. And I'm not going to keep bringing them up or hold much of a grudge here, so I really think me taking a few days off is for the best.

I will say I disagree that my usage of the replacement button is wrong, and it's not something I do often, it's the first game I've had to replace out of. I've seen quite a few games here get emotionally charged and I think people need to walk away more often from them. I also think going AFK for the remainder of the game is pretty unacceptable as well for your teammates, as that is basically throwing the game.

As I said before I don't really want to name names. And I don't really know how to deal with this and I realize this post is all kinds of vague, so if you have a good idea for how I should deal with it I would love to hear about that (probably not in thread). I feel like naming my specific issues would name individuals as well, further complicating this.

--------------------------------------

That said congratulations to Mike for being a very successful evil in this game! Also to ortho, you replaced into a very hard spot, so I would say not getting lynched is a huge success! And paper for having such good reads in such a limited time!

And thank you to Tokah for running it, sorry I ruined it soblue

Huh. I actually assumed that you had a RL thing come up. For what it's worth, despite asserting otherwise during the game (which I truly believed at the time), the way you replaced out was exponentially better than others.

The best way to replace out is to talk about a big project at work, losing internet access, or some real life logistical reason that can't really be read into.

The second best way it to just not say anything.

The worst ways are to do it in such a manner that a ton of alignment stuff can be read into, which you largely avoided.
 
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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I wanted to thank everyone in this game for unintentionally helping me through some tough times this week, particularly Tuesday. It really helped bring some normalcy into my week, and while I do think I was a bit less controlled than I otherwise would have been at a few points, it was really nice to do one of my favorite activities with a bunch of people that I consider good friends. heart I think my week would have been worse if I hadn't had yall here, and I really appreciated having this outlet to keep my mind busy when it otherwise would have been wandering to unproductive places.
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Benesephiir wrote:
ortho_ wrote:
Aw man, I didn't get to do my research project on how Benes reads LJ.

I think you would have lynched her if you did.

I instantly voted her on d2 and then talked about not wanting to be paranoid.

Then I said to lynch her if she makes it to the f3.

There as a lot of not wanting to engage Talk around that I did, because I know she makes me sound crazy when I am right that she is evil. I was honestly relying on Mike to find my suspicions on her and Vanders and rally everyone.

That didn't work out for some reason.

angry kiss
Maybe because Irina didn't actually hint to me
 
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ljtrigirl wrote:
I wanted to thank everyone in this game for unintentionally helping me through some tough times this week, particularly Tuesday. It really helped bring some normalcy into my week, and while I do think I was a bit less controlled than I otherwise would have been at a few points, it was really nice to do one of my favorite activities with a bunch of people that I consider good friends. heart I think my week would have been worse if I hadn't had yall here, and I really appreciated having this outlet to keep my mind busy when it otherwise would have been wandering to unproductive places.

I enjoyed battling with you yesterday. I always have fun with those kinds of things and you are one of the best opponents for it!
 
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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ortho_ wrote:
ljtrigirl wrote:
I wanted to thank everyone in this game for unintentionally helping me through some tough times this week, particularly Tuesday. It really helped bring some normalcy into my week, and while I do think I was a bit less controlled than I otherwise would have been at a few points, it was really nice to do one of my favorite activities with a bunch of people that I consider good friends. heart I think my week would have been worse if I hadn't had yall here, and I really appreciated having this outlet to keep my mind busy when it otherwise would have been wandering to unproductive places.

I enjoyed battling with you yesterday. I always have fun with those kinds of things and you are one of the best opponents for it!

I enjoyed most of it, but it was mostly because I thought you were the cultist, so either me or Vanders flipping would basically guarantee us a win.
 
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