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StarCraft: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy? rss

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Re: Scotched earth tactic - Legitimate or Cheesy?
I don't know whether your idea is within the rules, but it is definitely a viable idea in a game where resource control is key. Controlling as many resources as possible and starving your opponents is all part of the game, and your opponents should be thinking that way too.

Edit: upon rereading your topic, I would like to add my vote in favor of scotching the earth. Maybe a nice single malt up here in the north?
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Mike zebrowski
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Re: Scotched earth tactic - Legitimate or Cheesy?
MrSkeletor wrote:
Is this right, or am I missing something somewhere? If this is legitimate, it seems that fully depleting any area you have just lost is the way to go in most cases. Seems a bit cheesy to me. Any thoughts?


Its legit and even mentioned in one of the tips. The drawback is that if you want to reclaim the area later, it would be worthless.
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Ernesto Cabrera
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Re: Scotched earth tactic - Legitimate or Cheesy?
I think you're quite right... It appears that's why, (beside the theme) you lose resource cards at the end of the turn, that way yu can exploit all resources you can, trying to deplete the planet...

You don't need to be a genious to know someone is ready to attack you, I might say that was intended. Of course I'll give you my planet... but without any resources at all!
 
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Matthew M
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Mike Zebrowski wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Is this right, or am I missing something somewhere? If this is legitimate, it seems that fully depleting any area you have just lost is the way to go in most cases. Seems a bit cheesy to me. Any thoughts?


Its legit and even mentioned in one of the tips. The drawback is that if you want to reclaim the area later, it would be worthless.


I read the tip to mean you should consider proactively depleting an area. Not reactively. I am hard pressed to explain why the Ultralisks that have successfully invaded are not only allowing my workers to continue mining, but also allow them to leave when they are done.

-MMM
 
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Ernesto Cabrera
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Someone please summon Corey Konieczka or an FGG responsible...

I dont know the right spells...

This thing is bugging me, I just can't wait to play Starcraft...
 
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Marc Mistiaen
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To add to Mike's comment, I want to say that it is a perfectly legit and possibly smart move to do so, but is in no way a no brainer.
The reason is I find that the game is very dynamic, so that areas switch back and forth between players through the course of the game, this ballet being paced by the incessant aggressions players perpetrate upon each other. So you have to be aware that an area you lose now might just be yours again very soon. Even, it is not unusual to conquer back a territory you've been thrown off in the very same turn.
You may think that if you fully deplete it, then you're still not losing more than your opponent, as no one will have it while both could benefit from it if you hadn't, which should be equivalent. However, it is situational as well. Consider a case where it is a vespene gas producing area you're fighting over: if the other player is rich in gas, he won't mind too much that you deplete it, while you may be very interested in keeping the area mineable if you are yourself rather short of the precious material.
 
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Brian
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Octavian wrote:


I read the tip to mean you should consider proactively depleting an area. Not reactively. I am hard pressed to explain why the Ultralisks that have successfully invaded are not only allowing my workers to continue mining, but also allow them to leave when they are done.

-MMM


See, I more think of it as a matter of timing. Your ultralisks are still killing defenders while the strip mining continues. If they don't get the workers out of there quickly, e.g end of the turn, then your ultralisk will turn and destroy them.

Of course, this doesn't carry too much water as it implies the Ultralisk is busy the whole turn, while it could still potentially act.

I do like the idea of strip mining though. You are some what limited on when you can do it, as you need to have an approriate action left over. I think the idea that you might retake it is also big consideration. Is the territory in the direction of your expansion and what not.

Slightly off topic, but do you all know if all the races have the same permanent. resources? I wonder how much that might play into overall strip mining strategies if not.
 
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The way the rules are stated, it's clear that the workers would survive. If this is a big problem for your group you could always make a house rule that they are destroyed, or even that you can't mine an area with enemy units in it.

I think the general consensus is that workers are cheap enough that saving them won't be the deciding factor in choosing to deplete the resource. It's much more important to consider whether you intend to retake this area later. Still, saving the workers is an odd bonus.
 
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Chris Hinkes
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
dypaca wrote:
I think the general consensus is that workers are cheap enough that saving them won't be the deciding factor in choosing to deplete the resource. It's much more important to consider whether you intend to retake this area later. Still, saving the workers is an odd bonus.

On the contrary, saving your workers is extremely important! Resources are very tight in this game, especially if you are in constant battle with someone. Workers are even tighter! Losing workers is a serious setback. Not only do you have less workers to use next turn, but you now have to use those workers just to make new workers which take another turn to actually arrive. In a game that lasts 4 to 6 turns, that's huge.

When I first read this rule I figured it was just an oversight and the workers should die. In that situation I would almost never sacrifice *more* workers just to fully deplete an area of resources. I think that would hurt me more than it would hurt them. However, I could see that fully depleting an area to save your guys could have been a design decision. It isn't a guaranteed save, you need the extra workers to do so. It would actually make depletion a larger aspect of the game, in a good way I think. And if everyone knows they can do it it is perfectly fair. People will work a lot harder to prevent the enemy from having a base on any of the minerals on their planet. Also the mechanic could easily be explained as sending in more workers to help finish off the resources so they can go home early before they get attacked.

This is one of those rules that we could really use an official clarification on. =-)
 
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Justin Hwang
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
MrSkeletor wrote:
I didn't end up trying it tonight - didn't want to turn anyone new off the game which doing this just might.
Just to be 100% clear I do not have a problem with strip mining an area you are set to lose - what I don't like is that your workers survive if you do it!

All races have the same permanent resources.


What about this justification?
You are sending extra workers to warn the workers already busy mining. They receive the warning and flee the mine before Hydralisks kill them, of course with bag full of resources.
Had they not be warned, they would have had no idea Hydras were outside waiting to kill them.
 
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Mike zebrowski
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Zeromus wrote:
This is one of those rules that we could really use an official clarification on. =-)


Uh, what needs clarification? The rules are pretty darn clear that it is a legit move.
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Mike Zebrowski wrote:
Zeromus wrote:
This is one of those rules that we could really use an official clarification on. =-)


Uh, what needs clarification? The rules are pretty darn clear that it is a legit move.

Clarification that it wasn't an oversight. There is no example in the book or mention that over-mining is a good way to save your workers from being destroyed. Rules mistakes happen all the time and it isn't a big deal. I would just like to make sure that it was the intention of the designer that fully depleting a resource location is a valid *intended* method of saving your workers from inevitable destruction (versus using a rules loophole), that's all.
 
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Brian
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It is a tip to consider strip mining if you're about to lose a resource card. If the intent was to lose workers to strip mine a location I don't think it would ever be that worth it as you lose resources at the same time as making sure you'll never get those resources again. All to withhold them from an enemy you'll probably be fighting anyways.

Doesn't seem like much of a oversight to me is all I'm saying. Seems like the better way to make it work.
 
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Gergely Orsó
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
This may be a little off-topic, but I wonder if depleted resource areas still count for Raynor's victory condition. If no, that makes it the only faction in the game that can be permanently "locked" from achieving his secondary objective.
 
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Corey Konieczka
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
MrSkeletor wrote:
Ok, I have an area with 2 minerals in it (lets call it area P). I have 'spent' the 2 minerals on it (so 2 of my works are on the P card.)...

...the next order I turn over is technology upgrade. I decide that when I buy my tech I am going to fully deplete P so that it is now a useless area and my opponent cant use it.

So I put 2 workers onto it fully depleting the area. According to page 20, the resource card is immediately removed from the game, and the assigned workers are moved to the 'unavailable workers' pool - which means that during the regrouping phase, I will no longer lose those workers as they are no longer on a resource card I have lost!


This is a perfectly legitimate strategy.
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Corey Konieczka
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Lord Vetinari wrote:
This may be a little off-topic, but I wonder if depleted resource areas still count for Raynor's victory condition. If no, that makes it the only faction in the game that can be permanently "locked" from achieving his secondary objective.


A depleted area still counts for Raynor's victory condition.
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Lord Vetinari wrote:
This may be a little off-topic, but I wonder if depleted resource areas still count for Raynor's victory condition. If no, that makes it the only faction in the game that can be permanently "locked" from achieving his secondary objective.


Yeah, I was wondering this for a while. Someone also asked the question on the FFG forums as well. I was of the opinion that it would be a bit more fair for it not to matter if the territory is strip mined or not.

Also makes sense from a simple visual point of view. I mean, you look at the map and count the spaces with resources that have blue units. As opposed to having to worry about which places are strip mined and such.

I'm definately not an authority on the subject though!

Corey beat me and he is an authority!
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Mendosa wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Ok, I have an area with 2 minerals in it (lets call it area P). I have 'spent' the 2 minerals on it (so 2 of my works are on the P card.)...

...the next order I turn over is technology upgrade. I decide that when I buy my tech I am going to fully deplete P so that it is now a useless area and my opponent cant use it.

So I put 2 workers onto it fully depleting the area. According to page 20, the resource card is immediately removed from the game, and the assigned workers are moved to the 'unavailable workers' pool - which means that during the regrouping phase, I will no longer lose those workers as they are no longer on a resource card I have lost!


This is a perfectly legitimate strategy.

There you have it! Fully depleting a resource makes the workers that were in that area immune to destruction that turn! =-) Thanks for the "reassurance" Corey!

In fact I'm glad it was designed this way. I think it will make for even more brutal combat and tactics. I haven't been playing that way so I can't wait to introduce and try it next game! =-)
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
Zeromus wrote:
In fact I'm glad it was designed this way.


Corey said, yes, that's the rule. Which we already knew from reading it. I thought you wanted to know if this was an intentional feature of the design. That we will probably never know.
 
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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Why did depleting save the worker : easy.

When the mine is depleted there is nothing more to mine so the worker are back from work earlier.

When the mine is still active the worker are actively working there and so are present to be destroyed.

Think about it, it make sense. In the computer game it is something you do too : send a large pack of worker to deplete a middle map ressource then withdraw them to safety letting just an empty shell of a base.

And I think a player using this strategy too much would face trouble. His opponent will launch more attack on his ressource just to have him burn his own planet then withdrawn and letting him fest on ashes.
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
IKerensky wrote:


And I think a player using this strategy too much would face trouble. His opponent will launch more attack on his ressource just to have him burn his own planet then withdrawn and letting him fest on ashes.


That's a good point. However presumably a player would recognize the danger in depleting their last few locations. The other balancing mechanism is the fact that the resources are only indirectly improving my conquest point total. If I rush the resource areas with the intention of draining them when challenged and my opponent rushes the conquest point areas...

I still don't buy the thematic explanation, though I understand that it is something you CAN do in the PC game, but the ordering of how it can play out in the boardgame is funky. You aren't draining the resources before they get there or even while the battle is going on. You are draining the resources AFTER the battle is over and leaving unmolested.

You can say the workers actually got home before the battle started if you like, but fact is that the player likely doesn't deplete the mine unless the battle actually does occur and he loses. Otherwise he holds onto the area for more resources the next turn (unless he anticipates another attack this round occurring after his final chance to spend the resources). It's like time-travel or ESP or somethin'.

I'm fine with it as a game option and am not opposed to some sacrifice in narrative if it improves the game play. Just sayin'

-MMM
 
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Jay T Leone
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I agree with Octavian. It feels odd how fast a prestine resource can be stripped in a single turn right before an enemy invasion. And to suffer no casualties; it doesn't make that much sense.

But I guess it works for play mechanics and balance.
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
jtrleone wrote:
I agree with Octavian. It feels odd how fast a prestine resource can be stripped in a single turn right before an enemy invasion. And to suffer no casualties; it doesn't make that much sense.

But I guess it works for play mechanics and balance.


Oh, I've got no problem with it being stripped before an invasion. I have a problem (thematically) with it being stripped AFTER an invasion succeeds AND allowing the workers to return home safely. If the workers could return home safely, but not strip mine that would be one thing. Likewise, if they could strip the area of resources at the cost of their lives, again that would make more thematic sense.

But if it is important for balance reasons then I can make that small sacrifice.

-MMM
 
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Re: [-]Scotched[/-] Scorched earth tactic - Legit or Cheesy
MrSkeletor wrote:
I have played the game a few times now and this 'tactic' is not as easy to pull off as I first suspected. I'll be leaving these rules as is for now,


Thanks for the update, however this begs the question of where you session reports are....

I'M STARVIN'!!!!

-MMM
 
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