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Subject: "HI, I want to play Werewolf online." - #209, for the new and the improving! rss

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Day (she/her)
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Level 1 suggests Noob. Paper and Farren were voting to save him on D1. Paper called Noob clear and the Wolves knew who the real Seer was, when I still believed it to be more likely to be Paper. These are pretty damning things for Noob.

Also, Dusty voted Farren yesterday and his vote there was pretty much the only reason I went to Farren. I wanted to vote outside of the Seer claims and no one joined me on Dejo. So Dusty is kind of directly responsible for getting Farren run up.
 
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Day (she/her)
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In Noob's favour are his Villager claim D1, when he was the opposite train to the "Seer". Wolf Noob could have died there and then, and would have likely brutalled his Sorc, so that would be bold. That said, he possibly thought the trade of a Wolf for an unguarded kill of the Seer might be worth it.

Also, Dusty's Seer claim yesterday (and on D1) kind of threw off a lot of our momentum. But I still don't understand why Dusty does it. If he's a Wolf, he sees Lime losing the Seer battle and thinks "I'll get in on this"? If Dusty is the Wolf, he and Farren didn't know who was real. But both were doing fine, why do it?
 
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Day (she/her)
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Farren is on Ryagic before Noob is ever even in contention, so the idea of that as a save vote is false (except for not moving elsewhere. Paper also moves there with Noob on 1 vote, so that narrative is kind of false.

I'm re-reading the chaos to see if Farren and Paper are directing traffic.

Oh wait, Paper moved off and moved back to Ryagic after Noob got put up.

Noob really was nearly killed, wow. He self-saved in a cross post with Samool that switched LHLV.
 
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Day (she/her)
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Paper softly pushes Noob and Farren on D1, including them in his would vote list. Dusty is not in that and is maybe Good. Ryagic was also in his list though, so going to Ryagic over Noob is not damning.
 
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Day (she/her)
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At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

:/

[Vote Noob] but I'm certainly not finished thinking yet.
 
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VOTE TALLY

Player (3/11) - # - Voted by

FATNOOB - 2 - Dusty534*(2), Smugs(4)
Dusty534 - 1 - FATNOOB*(3)
Smugs - 0 - FATNOOB(1)

Not Voting: N/A


Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 2:30 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 3:30 PM BGG

---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

Dusty534 - 1 - FATNOOB*(2)
FATNOOB - 2 - Smugs(1), Dusty534*(3)
Smugs - 1 - FATNOOB(4)

Not Voting: N/A
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs, I'll be more active in a little bit. Hit me with any questions you got.
 
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Dustin F
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Smugs wrote:
In Noob's favour are his Villager claim D1, when he was the opposite train to the "Seer". Wolf Noob could have died there and then, and would have likely brutalled his Sorc, so that would be bold. That said, he possibly thought the trade of a Wolf for an unguarded kill of the Seer might be worth it.

Also, Dusty's Seer claim yesterday (and on D1) kind of threw off a lot of our momentum. But I still don't understand why Dusty does it. If he's a Wolf, he sees Lime losing the Seer battle and thinks "I'll get in on this"? If Dusty is the Wolf, he and Farren didn't know who was real. But both were doing fine, why do it?

Lime was dying, cast reasonable doubt to save him. Protect the super good. Protect our strongest.
 
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Day (she/her)
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FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.

I dunno man. The two of them just bussing each other when the Sorc and the Seer are right there?
 
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Day (she/her)
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FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.

Can you provide examples?
 
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Day (she/her)
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A lot of my evidence for Noob Wolf is circumstancial, nothing really about Noob himself. My evidence for Dusty Wolf is more based on his actions.

I think I need to fully ISO read both before deciding.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Back too. Sorry, morning stuff took longer than I thought.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.

Can you provide examples?

I'm specifically thinking of evil-Farren going out of his way to lay down false trails:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/30052464#30052464 - Fake News - outing himself as aux evil right before he dies.

Here is wolf-Farren D1 world-crafting and pushing his wolf-buddy in a no-reveal game:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29895023#29895023
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.

I dunno man. The two of them just bussing each other when the Sorc and the Seer are right there?

That is the perfect time to bus. Not a half-hearted D1 push, or just tossing them in the "well dusty/farren could be evil". Farren/Dusty already got one mislynch on D1, they aren't under tons of suspicion, they know they won't be targeted for a brutal because Paper/2millionlimes are sitting right there.

I think they knew hard bussing each other right there likely wins them the game.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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While Dusty's fake Seer claim looks good (seer cover and all that jazz) - the reality is that because of it, we spent essentially the entire day sorting through the seer claims and zero time actually hunting.
 
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Day (she/her)
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FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Smugs wrote:
At work now, but I also don't think Farren comes up with a huge post and justification about why we should kill Dusty if Dusty is a Wolf.

Have you played with Farren? That's exactly what he does.

Can you provide examples?

I'm specifically thinking of evil-Farren going out of his way to lay down false trails:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/30052464#30052464 - Fake News - outing himself as aux evil right before he dies.

Here is wolf-Farren D1 world-crafting and pushing his wolf-buddy in a no-reveal game:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29895023#29895023

Okay, that bus against Beren was pretty big. He did come off it though, but only right before Dusk. Hmmm.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs, I got just over half an hour for any other questions you've got.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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I keep coming back to "how did the wolves know to brutal 2mil and not paper"? Reading through Paper's posts:

PaperF wrote:
Dusty534 wrote:
P.S. - The person who claimed seer is lying, but I want to lynch Noob before I vote for them.
We have two seer claimants. You will be the third one.

This reads like "hey wolf, back off" - which dusty does when he's back in thread

PaperF wrote:
Smugs wrote:
PaperF wrote:
The world where Lime is a wolf and Im the sorc doesn't makes sense. For that to be true, why would lime claim seer if I'm already defending him? He can just go with a villager claim and stay under cover.

Same goes for lime sorc and wolf me. Why would lime claim seer if he's just going to get lynched or get me lynched?

Point is, Lime claiming seer doesn't makes sense for both of us being evils. Lime had to claim there because he's the sorc.

I mean, this bit is fine. I agree, this is where I was. But then why has Dusty claimed?
I have no idea, honestly. I MIGHT believe that he's doing a play, but he's claiming a hit on my clear, so if he's a wolf, is a benefit to the evil team. Is my only clear anyways, so we will go into a:

Lynch NOOB, NK me. Down to 7. 4 vs. 3

Lynch Dusty (brutal) a good, NK another good

We go down to a final 4 with LHLV, assumming they don't hit the hunter. They have two chances of hitting the hunter with the brutal and Nk. We no clears, the hunter will have to aim into the large villy pool, so yeah, they kind of have the advantage.

I think they also could have picked up on Paper never even had sorc-Dusty as a scenario. Assumes Dusty is a wolf without even considering the sorc option.

I also don't even know if it matters - farren dead, brutals one of the two who dies, then they NK the other. Even if they brutaled sorc-2mil and Paper was the Seer, they're down to 2 wolves in a F6 with one living clear. That's still a great scenario to be in.
 
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Day (she/her)
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Okay, finished work, I'm going to read both isos, but probably not ask too many questions. If I have time, I'll reread Paper and Farren too, as the informed ones.

I still think it's more likely Noob. The correctly aimed Brutal is kinda compelling.
 
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Day (she/her)
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FATNOOB wrote:
I keep coming back to "how did the wolves know to brutal 2mil and not paper"? Reading through Paper's posts:

PaperF wrote:
Dusty534 wrote:
P.S. - The person who claimed seer is lying, but I want to lynch Noob before I vote for them.
We have two seer claimants. You will be the third one.

This reads like "hey wolf, back off" - which dusty does when he's back in thread

PaperF wrote:
Smugs wrote:
PaperF wrote:
The world where Lime is a wolf and Im the sorc doesn't makes sense. For that to be true, why would lime claim seer if I'm already defending him? He can just go with a villager claim and stay under cover.

Same goes for lime sorc and wolf me. Why would lime claim seer if he's just going to get lynched or get me lynched?

Point is, Lime claiming seer doesn't makes sense for both of us being evils. Lime had to claim there because he's the sorc.

I mean, this bit is fine. I agree, this is where I was. But then why has Dusty claimed?
I have no idea, honestly. I MIGHT believe that he's doing a play, but he's claiming a hit on my clear, so if he's a wolf, is a benefit to the evil team. Is my only clear anyways, so we will go into a:

Lynch NOOB, NK me. Down to 7. 4 vs. 3

Lynch Dusty (brutal) a good, NK another good

We go down to a final 4 with LHLV, assumming they don't hit the hunter. They have two chances of hitting the hunter with the brutal and Nk. We no clears, the hunter will have to aim into the large villy pool, so yeah, they kind of have the advantage.

I think they also could have picked up on Paper never even had sorc-Dusty as a scenario. Assumes Dusty is a wolf without even considering the sorc option.

I also don't even know if it matters - farren dead, brutals one of the two who dies, then they NK the other. Even if they brutaled sorc-2mil and Paper was the Seer, they're down to 2 wolves in a F6 with one living clear. That's still a great scenario to be in.

He couldn't consider Sorc Dusty, Lime had to be Sorc for Paper to be real. But this is some good stuff.
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Boonta Frederickson
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Smugs wrote:
Okay, finished work, I'm going to read both isos, but probably not ask too many questions. If I have time, I'll reread Paper and Farren too, as the informed ones.

I still think it's more likely Noob. The correctly aimed Brutal is kinda compelling.

I don't. Totally biased obv but I don't.

Suppose they have no idea which one is real (I think Paper hints a couple times, but even throwing that out).

Farren's brutal's gotta go somewhere. He can either:

- aim it into the pool. Will be down to 6 or 7 the next day. 7 knowing their sorc, or 6 if they get the Seer. Dusty is super well read by the village, but MIGHT get viewed by the actual Seer, especially after fakeclaiming all day D2 and very hard-softing Seer D1.

- take out a Seer claimant. Best case is what happens, you hit the Seer, frame Noob, and can NK the actual clear, leaving a F6, where we are. Worst case, you hit your Sorc, who actually dies, NK the Seer, and are left with a F6, no views, and a living Dusty who nobody is reading as evil.

I think Farren has to aim it at the Seers to make sure Dusty doesn't get viewed, because that's game over. Every other situation, they are in good shape.
 
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Dustin F
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I'll remind you that I was the one that pushed HARD for both Farren and Paper. Well, I pushed hard for Farren, but I mentioned paper too. I also said I believed Lime was the seer before it was revealed, which means I wasn't full of shit when I said I was protecting him.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Dusty534 wrote:
I'll remind you that I was the one that pushed HARD for both Farren and Paper. Well, I pushed hard for Farren, but I mentioned paper too. I also said I believed Lime was the seer before it was revealed, which means I wasn't full of shit when I said I was protecting him.

This is not accurate.

I pushed Paper HARD D1. You did not even express suspicion there, or vote there. You bussed Farren D2.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Alright, I'm out for real. [vote nightfall] just to be sure.

Smugs, I'm sending you good-decision vibes from across the planet.

Dusty, hope you stick around for more.
 
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