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Subject: Nother Two Cub Niner rss

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Paper Luis

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And I don't know how else I can convince you, Tokah, I think that I put my heart into trying to make this play where I wanted to take hunter me to the end without claiming. I really wanted to do it. I"ll be popping during the day to make my case, if you can't go back, I"ll be really sad, because I think that I still can provide my case and convince the village that I'm good.

And to be honest, given how things are turning like, evil me would have given up. Maybe there's a chance that evil Paper keeps fighting, but good Paper puts way more into what I have done. I never look for old posts as evil, and saying this hurts my evil games, and maybe I"ll do in a future, but today I'm putting my everything because I'm good and I won't give up on the village.

I have class today, I"ll try to pop in when I can.
 
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Tokah
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PaperF wrote:
I don't know who's good or evil, Tokah, but I think that ortho is more likely evil now because I don't really get how he thinks I'm evil now all suddenly, and he has a lot of experience with good Paper, which surprises me. He isn't trying to solve the game atm, he's just calling me as evil, which is sad.

That's been Ortho all game.
 
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Tokah
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PaperF wrote:
And I don't know how else I can convince you, Tokah, I think that I put my heart into trying to make this play where I wanted to take hunter me to the end without claiming. I really wanted to do it. I"ll be popping during the day to make my case, if you can't go back, I"ll be really sad, because I think that I still can provide my case and convince the village that I'm good.

And to be honest, given how things are turning like, evil me would have given up. Maybe there's a chance that evil Paper keeps fighting, but good Paper puts way more into what I have done. I never look for old posts as evil, and saying this hurts my evil games, and maybe I"ll do in a future, but today I'm putting my everything because I'm good and I won't give up on the village.

I have class today, I"ll try to pop in when I can.

Like I said, btw, Rainbow 7 vibes. The problem, though, is that in a good you world, you've lived to the end of the game without coming off as definitively believable.

You did change my mind, though. I came into today being sure you were evil from your claim and were backing into a Hunter claim to counter a math win, and now I think maybe you really are a hunter who flew too close to the sun.

Your nightfalls have caused a lot of problems, though. I'm here now. Ku is here... sometime? Ortho is probably here before Ku.

So let's say you are good, and I vote Ortho. Ortho can vote you and get LHLV on you at 2 votes if he beats Ku to voting him - leading to you dying at 2 votes, Ortho living at 2 votes, Samool having 1 vote.

I mean, hell, in a good you world, evil HAS LHLV on you. :/

So what you're asking is for me to vote Samool, and that's a very different thing. That's more than just changing my mind, that's a total reversal of my mind.

And without my good buddy to talk to about it, too.

Ugly stuff.
 
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Tokah
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Man, now I wish I'd done that math earlier, actually. I have go really, really soon.
 
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Tokah
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[vote samool]
 
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VOTE TALLY

Player (5/9) - # - Voted by

PaperF - 3 - TFang(1), kuchick(2), ortho_(3), Samool*(4)
Samool - 2 - PaperF*(5), TFang(6)

Not Voting: N/A


Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 3:00 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 3:30 PM BGG

---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

kuchick - 1 - PaperF(2)
ortho_ - 1 - PaperF(3)
PaperF - 1 - Samool*(5)
Samool - 1 - PaperF*(4)
TFang - 2 - PaperF(1), Samool(6)

Not Voting: N/A
 
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Tokah
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Only 60 secs to explain, but sorry Ku!

Paper has gotten to me, and I've realized we can't kill Ortho. I hate leaving (literally) this on you.

I can't explain fast or well why I think Paper is good, and I'm not sure myself - but this is my best guess. I've never seen Paper plead so directly or fight with this kinda vibe as evil in a certain consistency way. I've voted him every other time he's hit this pitch, because I thought his arguments were intellectually flawed and I refused to be swayed by emotion. So I can't blame you if Paper is good and you end up in the same boat.

I've regretted it every time.

And I can't find why I thought Samool was so good. Hopefully Flush was right all along?

I dunno, but I'm goint to be late to work if I type more.

[vote nightfall]

I'll see you all in 13 hours or so.
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VOTE TALLY

Player (5/9) - # - Voted by

PaperF - 3 - TFang(1), kuchick(2), ortho_(3), Samool*(4)
Samool - 2 - PaperF*(5), TFang*(6)

Not Voting: N/A


Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 3:00 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 3:30 PM BGG

---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

kuchick - 1 - PaperF(2)
ortho_ - 1 - PaperF(3)
PaperF - 1 - Samool*(5)
Samool - 1 - PaperF*(4)
TFang - 2 - PaperF(1), Samool*(6)

Not Voting: N/A
 
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Samool wrote:
We have to bear in mind that the cub of Ortho/Tfang wants to get me lynched over Paper otherwise they lose

TFang wrote:
[vote samool]

Tfang has to vote me here as a cub or he loses the game for evil as cub
 
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Paper Luis

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Samool wrote:
Samool wrote:
We have to bear in mind that the cub of Ortho/Tfang wants to get me lynched over Paper otherwise they lose

TFang wrote:
[vote samool]

Tfang has to vote me here as a cub or he loses the game for evil as cub
Explain your case as for who do you think is more likely good vs. evil in Tfang/ortho. If Tfang is the cub, she doesn't knows who is her wolf, same goes for ortho. So your worldview would be appreciated so they can evaluate, even if Tfang nightfell.
 
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If Tfang is acctually good here then its going to be really dissapointing.

He calls me good over Paper up until now and then suddenly gets a change of heart over a few sappy posts from Paper and the boring excuse of 'i wouldnt do that as wolf
 
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PaperF wrote:
Samool wrote:
Samool wrote:
We have to bear in mind that the cub of Ortho/Tfang wants to get me lynched over Paper otherwise they lose

TFang wrote:
[vote samool]

Tfang has to vote me here as a cub or he loses the game for evil as cub
Explain your case as for who do you think is more likely good vs. evil in Tfang/ortho. If Tfang is the cub, she doesn't knows who is her wolf, same goes for ortho. So your worldview would be appreciated so they can evaluate, even if Tfang nightfell.

I think its pretty obvious who is evil out of the two of us.
Your are the one who started the day with 4 votes not me
 
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Paper Luis

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Samool wrote:
PaperF wrote:
Samool wrote:
Samool wrote:
We have to bear in mind that the cub of Ortho/Tfang wants to get me lynched over Paper otherwise they lose

TFang wrote:
[vote samool]

Tfang has to vote me here as a cub or he loses the game for evil as cub
Explain your case as for who do you think is more likely good vs. evil in Tfang/ortho. If Tfang is the cub, she doesn't knows who is her wolf, same goes for ortho. So your worldview would be appreciated so they can evaluate, even if Tfang nightfell.

I think its pretty obvious who is evil out of the two of us.
Your are the one who started the day with 4 votes not me
Is not obvious, I'm the hunter, you're the one throwing shade here.
 
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Like Paper name a similarity between this game and another one of my wolf games...

All you will find is similarities between this and my good games
 
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PaperF wrote:
Samool wrote:
PaperF wrote:
Samool wrote:
Samool wrote:
We have to bear in mind that the cub of Ortho/Tfang wants to get me lynched over Paper otherwise they lose

TFang wrote:
[vote samool]

Tfang has to vote me here as a cub or he loses the game for evil as cub
Explain your case as for who do you think is more likely good vs. evil in Tfang/ortho. If Tfang is the cub, she doesn't knows who is her wolf, same goes for ortho. So your worldview would be appreciated so they can evaluate, even if Tfang nightfell.

I think its pretty obvious who is evil out of the two of us.
Your are the one who started the day with 4 votes not me
Is not obvious, I'm the hunter, you're the one throwing shade here.

They all voted for you without hearing what you had to say beacuse they know your the wolf. Claiming hunter was the only thing you could've done there to get out of being lynched automatically and you know that
 
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Amanda Fabulous
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Sorry guys. Older toddler got sick last night, and we’ve been dealing with it since about 9pm.

I hate to have disappeared in this critical window.. I’m still only on my phone, watching younger toddler while older toddler is at the pediatrician.
 
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TFang wrote:

And I can't find why I thought Samool was so good.

Despite admitting to ISOing me at least twice and saying that he thought i was amazingly shiny both times
 
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Tfang is too good of a player to let all of these (and more):

TFang wrote:


Limez can go to the Samool camp.
TFang wrote:


That's trusting that whyever I read Samool strongly good

TFang wrote:
I by no means believe Paper over Samool, anyhow.
TFang wrote:
I'm sure it isn't Samool, and I'm living in a place where I'd be midly suprised about anyone else?
TFang wrote:

Samool is solid good, I think Ku and Limez are good.
TFang wrote:


I think his thing to Kuchick just now was very good Samoolish, too.

just disappear over some pleading
 
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Key quote:

TFang wrote:
I'm aiming to trust past me regardless, so that's fine.

But he apprently disregards this today?
 
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TFang wrote:
Hopefully Flush was right all along?

a weak D1 read...
 
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Amanda Fabulous
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So it looks like we’re resolving the wolf battle no matter what.

I find paper’s posts persuasive, but I’m not sure they’re persuasive enough to overcome the history.

I need to go back and re-read responses to my slow reveal.

Also re the dake/smug showdown from d2, either Trang is cub or the cub bussed during that close battle. I was kicking myself for viewing tfang in hindsight with that likely fellow cub implication, but then it was a nice surprise that it pushed us into a math win.

A math win that paper has now undone.

So it’s interesting to read to see tfang agonize over who it is...even if evil she legit does not know, and she may not even be the cub!!

What a mess.
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Amanda Fabulous
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So paper or samool was gs hunting with the limes kill choice.

I wonder if limez said something hinty or if it was just poe
 
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Paper being in denial of how evil he looks atm should just soldiify your suspicions
 
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There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it.
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kuchick wrote:
So paper or samool was gs hunting with the limes kill choice.

I wonder if limez said something hinty or if it was just poe

I read over Limeztone and I didn't find anything obvious. But I am also complete garbage at finding GSs.

I don't even think it's going to be apparent how a Seer would be hinting on a D2 when all the evils are alive.


I did eventually see your 'ortho is either a cub or good' post, but that was after you'd already claimed. I missed it the first time around.



Sorry to put it on you here, but I think you're going to have to be the vote. The funny thing is that TFang has no idea who the wolf is. (Same, obviously, would go for me if I were evil)

I think it's telling that TFang 'came around' to voting Samool here. PaperF has fought hard here today, but go back and read everything before that.

He was on a villager claim that came under lynch pressure. The gamestate became such that evil loses the game. He retracted into the only claim possible for the game not to be over.

PaperF can fight hard as evil, especially at must lynch. What he's done here is within his wheelhouse.

I think TFang did what he could to set up a chance for you (Kuchick) to vote Samool. But this is one of those situations where the facts paint a picture that's hard to talk past.
 
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There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it.
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And Kuchick, hopefully you spotted this deft little bit of manipulation from TFang on the way out.

TFang wrote:


And I can't find why I thought Samool was so good. Hopefully Flush was right all along?


He had obviously noted how you had previously mulled over RoyalFlush's read and gave it weight in your thinking.

TFang bringing this up as a parting shot is disingenuous. Because I guarantee that TFang himself doesn't care about the D1 read of someone he has played with all of two times and barely knows. But he knows you do.


Hopefully this day isn't me vs. TFang, because the vote on Samool/paperF doesn't even depend on voting with the good between us. TFang and I might both be wrong here.

But to the extent that you're trying to figure him/me out, pay attention to little things like this. This is how evil!TFang subtly tries to manipulate. Good!TFang doesn't use tricks like this.
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