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Subject: Deleted posts rss

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Marion
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Is it new policy now to just delete posts "by administrator" when they got enough "x", or maybe even without ?
Instead of having those posts still "available to read" if one clicks "show" (as it was before).
Just asking.
Not judging.

I'm not sure if one is better than the other.

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One of the new functions implemented on the site is the ability for a moderator to obliterate the text of a message. It's not an automatic thing, and it's not necessarily tied to the amount of 'x's that message got (for example, some messages could be 'x'ed for reasons not necessarily tied to the provocative nature of the post). It's true that the fact that we had a message is visible, but on the other hand the removed content will prevent the thread for being flamed further / at a later time.
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Derry Salewski
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Or the fact that noone can see what was deemed bad will make people repeat the mistake over and over again...
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Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
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I was just about to start a thread asking the same thing, as today was the first time I saw “This post has been removed by a moderator.” So I was going to ask if it was new, and since when.
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J J
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It is new. Octavian started using it on the weekend. Apparently they're still working on things, and there will be an announcement once that's done.
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Ben Kyo
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I looooove this new policy!

They can just excise the drama completely*. It really helps keep thread derailment under control. I had a couple of posts removed for quoting deleted content, and that also makes so much sense. You can be sure I won't be quoting rule-breaking content in future.

Keep up the good work mods!


* well, never completely, but far more effectively
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Ben Kyo
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scifiantihero wrote:
Or the fact that noone can see what was deemed bad will make people repeat the mistake over and over again...

Hah. Nobody "learns" in the time it takes for a thread to implode. As long as the content that required moderation is there, someone will be tempted to comment on it, and round and round the merry-go-round goes.

The offender gets a warning from the mods and time and space to consider whether or not they will heed the warning, the content gets deleted, the replies quoting the content get deleted, everybody (else) wins.

Nobody really benefits from leaving it up.
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Hm.
Still don't know if this is good or bad .....
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Kim Williams
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maho wrote:
Hm.
Still don't know if this is good or bad .....


Me neither.

I can't decide how I feel when I see threads that look like this:



At least you can follow that people stood up against the bad stuff - which is not so apparent when people just quietly red x stuff.

But it does look and feel a bit more Big Brother-ish.
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entwife wrote:

I can't decide how I feel when I see threads that look like this:

The transition period is going to be a bit ugly. Everyone with an ounce of sense has been saying "don't respond, flag" regarding rule-breaking content for a long time, but we've all been guilty of quoting for posterity, responding, etc.

Once the new moderation starts actually changing how people respond to rule breaches, the flood of moderation will slow, and threads will look less ugly.

Lots of sites have been enacting similar policies for years, and they haven't suffered for it. There's no need to fear "chilling effects" as long as the moderators can be trusted. I think Octavian and co. have earned that trust.
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Kim Williams
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Is it weird of me to wonder how many different ways they have of categorising 'bad' posts. E.g in the example above they stated the posts were bigoted (which I agree with, having seen the original posts), but presumably there'll be many different such explanations for deletion. How nuanced will they be?
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J J
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Given what was in those posts, how might you suggest responding in a way that did not immediately derail the thread (and in part validate the racist bullshit by considering it worthy of discussion)?
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Kim Williams
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Given what was in those posts, how might you suggest responding in a way that did not immediately derail the thread (and in part validate the racist bullshit by considering it worthy of discussion)?


But if one completely ignores comments (hoping that moderators will remove them) it might look as if the community implicitly approved of them, or at least tolerated them. At least one person jumping in to say "Hey, that's not OK" lets everyone know that those sort of comments are not being accepted by everyone.

Clearly quoting those comments isn't a good plan (particularly now) but I'd personally rather someone posted something to the effect of "The above comment is hugely inappropriate and I hope the moderators step in to remove it". For instance as a woman reading a thread with a blatantly sexist comment that seems to be being ignored, I wouldn't be able to tell whether that's a) because nobody cared, and didn't see it as inappropriate or b) everybody was appalled, and hoping for it to be deleted.
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entwife wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Given what was in those posts, how might you suggest responding in a way that did not immediately derail the thread (and in part validate the racist bullshit by considering it worthy of discussion)?


But if one completely ignores comments (hoping that moderators will remove them) it might look as if the community implicitly approved of them, or at least tolerated them. At least one person jumping in to say "Hey, that's not OK" lets everyone know that those sort of comments are not being accepted by everyone.


Only until they are deleted. And how did it look in the old regime where anything, no matter how vile (yes, really), was let stand?

Quote:
Clearly quoting those comments isn't a good plan (particularly now) but I'd personally rather someone posted something to the effect of "The above comment is hugely inappropriate and I hope the moderators step in to remove it". For instance as a woman reading a thread with a blatantly sexist comment that seems to be being ignored, I wouldn't be able to tell whether that's a) because nobody cared, and didn't see it as inappropriate or b) everybody was appalled, and hoping for it to be deleted.


But you can tell. Flagging the post in question hides it (when a small handful of people have done so). And there's nothing that keeps anyone from responding indirectly without quoting.
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entwife wrote:
But if one completely ignores comments (hoping that moderators will remove them) it might look as if the community implicitly approved of them, or at least tolerated them.

For attention-seeking posts any reply is a win, so I see that ignoring and flagging and especially not replying is still the best course of action.

If people flagged it, it is collapsed, and you know you're not alone.

I don't think just saying "inappropriate" has much value without explaining why, but a "real" reply very easily results in thread derailment. So, consideration is needed.
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Russ Williams
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JasonJ0 wrote:
But you can tell. Flagging the post in question hides it (when a small handful of people have done so).

Rather, it hides it for people who have their account configured to hide sufficiently-flagged posts.
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Kim Williams
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russ wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
But you can tell. Flagging the post in question hides it (when a small handful of people have done so).

Rather, it hides it for people who have their account configured to hide sufficiently-flagged posts.


I used to have things configured so they appeared hidden, but then I found that I always used to click on them to see what was said, and that they even drew my attention far more (in a morbid, car crash watching sort of wayblush), so now I see it all, and miss out on knowing what's been sufficiently flagged.

Personally I could do with an in between position of having things marked as having been flagged (so I could see other similarly felt a comment was 'bad'), but without hiding it (until a moderator stepped in).

Clearly that's just my own peculiarity though.
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Rich Keiser
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This will prevent continuation / response of the offending behavior/material in follow-up posts/quotes, as you know that your prose will now get nuked with the offending material. In short - self preservation of one's work.
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Big Sean
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Unbalanced moderation on;
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/30104352#30104352

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silverfox63 wrote:
Unbalanced moderation on;

I'm not sure if you wanted to report a problematic moderation. If this is the case, please send a geekmail to the Community Manager to clarify the situation:
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entwife wrote:
Is it weird of me to wonder how many different ways they have of categorising 'bad' posts. E.g in the example above they stated the posts were bigoted (which I agree with, having seen the original posts), but presumably there'll be many different such explanations for deletion. How nuanced will they be?


I've just seen what may be the first "Removed for personal attacks".
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Rich Keiser
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silverfox63 wrote:


Please, do elaborate.
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Alexander Wrede
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silverfox63 wrote:


I agree with you on that. I just sent this mail to Octavian:

Quote:
I'm not sure if I'm right about this, but I wanted to tell you this nevertheless. Please, just decide for yourself.

I want to report problematic, unbalanced moderation in this thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/30104352#30104352

A lot of posts have been deleted already, even those I found to be constructive and topic-related. It's a discussion about "mansplaining". While in fact there were several posts that were probably derailing the discussion, I think that many posts were deleted unjustified.

Some users think that the term "mansplaining" itself is sexist. It should be allowed to state that. To clarify, nobody wants to play down the problem that is called "mansplaining". Men treating women in a condescending way is sexism. But: It should not be allowed to counter sexism with more sexism. Both are wrong. It's not a solution to say that this problem should be discussed somewhere else. If someone uses sexist terms, it can't be a solution to address that problem somewhere else.

Kindest regards
Alex
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silverfox63 wrote:
Unbalanced in the same way that a librarian moderates loud visitors more than quiet ones?

You might not agree with the librarian when she hushes you and feel that there's no reason you need to speak quietly. Regardless of whether you think it's appropriate or not, that space has been established with a particular set of guidelines about what is and what isn't allowed. Either you follow those guidelines or you go somewhere else.
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Bryan Thunkd
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alingex wrote:
Some users think that the term "mansplaining" itself is sexist. It should be allowed to state that.
In discussions about how to handle a problem, stating "There's no problem" or "Prove to me it's a problem" derail the discussion by pushing the topic away from "solutions" to "establish there's even a problem". This has been deemed detrimental to those discussions.

And as those discussions are viewed as being worthwhile discussions, the management has stated many times that they will no longer allow those types of derailments. So no... they are not allowed to state that.
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