Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
136 Posts
[1]  Prev «  2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6  Next »  [6] | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Complaint Department

Subject: Deleted Posts rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lemur wrote:
Octavian wrote:
You were moderated twice. In the first you called another user "dumb". In the second you made a political joke in a non-political thread. Both resulted in a one day suspension.

The discussion you are citing happened after the second incident. The discussion did not happen both times, and the second violation would normally have resulted in a one day suspension anyways.





Correct. The first time - I received a message that if I removed my post (where I quoted someone who insulted me) that I would have my suspension removed/reduced - or, at the very least, it would be expunged from my record.

Having never received even a warning, I was shocked. I did the deletion. Of course, I never heard anything back until after the suspension had completed; and - clearly - it wasn't expunged.

You're right - the second incident was the one I was quoting. Again, I'll quote:

ME: #2: Warnings could be issued, rather than just one-day suspensions

YOU: I completely agree with #2 - that was a mistake. We will sometimes jump someone up a step in severe cases, but yours was by no means a severe case.


So ... if you DIDN'T mean it shouldn't have been a suspension, what did you mean by "it was a mistake?"


This is all, mostly, secondary to my OP, but I think it does speak to the concern some have (including me) - that moderation now will be even less measured than previously.


If this were a classroom, you would be the student arguing why they didn't get a 100 on their spelling test, when they scored a 98... all the while, the rest of us have Fs.
8 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Ronkonkoma
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darthhugo wrote:
Lemur wrote:
Octavian wrote:
You were moderated twice. In the first you called another user "dumb". In the second you made a political joke in a non-political thread. Both resulted in a one day suspension.

The discussion you are citing happened after the second incident. The discussion did not happen both times, and the second violation would normally have resulted in a one day suspension anyways.





Correct. The first time - I received a message that if I removed my post (where I quoted someone who insulted me) that I would have my suspension removed/reduced - or, at the very least, it would be expunged from my record.

Having never received even a warning, I was shocked. I did the deletion. Of course, I never heard anything back until after the suspension had completed; and - clearly - it wasn't expunged.

You're right - the second incident was the one I was quoting. Again, I'll quote:

ME: #2: Warnings could be issued, rather than just one-day suspensions

YOU: I completely agree with #2 - that was a mistake. We will sometimes jump someone up a step in severe cases, but yours was by no means a severe case.


So ... if you DIDN'T mean it shouldn't have been a suspension, what did you mean by "it was a mistake?"


This is all, mostly, secondary to my OP, but I think it does speak to the concern some have (including me) - that moderation now will be even less measured than previously.


If this were a classroom, you would be the student arguing why they didn't get a 100 on their spelling test, when they scored a 98... all the while, the rest of us have Fs.



Touche

Interestingly - I once DID complain about getting a 98 on a paper when in grad school.

My professor said, "Well, God gets a 100; and I get a 99; so the most anyone else can get is a 98."

ME: "That's ridiculous!"

HIM: "Besides the fact, you also started at least two sentences with the word 'But' - and everyone knows you can't do that! So, if nothing else, I dinged you two points just for that."

ME: "Actually, you can begin a sentence with 'but' or 'and.' The problem is most times people aren't creating full sentences, they're just fragments. But, if you create a full sentence, it's perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with the word 'but' (as I just did)."

HIM: "Irregardless."


So, yes, I have a history of questioning things I feel are capricious and unfair I make a lot of unpopular decisions in my own life, but no one has ever accused me of being unfair.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I was teaching math, the most-complained-about grade -- by far -- was a 99.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete
United States
Northbrook
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eric Brosius wrote:
When I was teaching math, the most-complained-about grade -- by far -- was a 99.
Any mathematician worth his salt would lose his mind over that 1%.

Pete (finds that funny)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So as this thread is currently demonstrating, an undesirable consequence of deleting posts in a controversial thread is the large number of people who inevitably begin to comment and complain about the deleted posts in said thread, which only continues (and even intensifies) the derailment.

Maybe if mods simply removed posts without leaving an empty placeholder it might minimize this problem?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
So as this thread is currently demonstrating, an undesirable consequence of deleting posts in a controversial thread is the large number of people who inevitably begin to comment and complain about the deleted posts in said thread, which only continues (and even intensifies) the derailment.

Maybe if mods simply removed posts without leaving an empty placeholder it might minimize this problem?



Meh... that will go down, once it becomes the norm.

Give it time... don't push the "App Button Must Solve All Problems Immediately" approach.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Ronkonkoma
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I *suspect* one of two things:

1 - it can't be done, with the current way the DB is structured; or

2 - it would lead to people asking, "Hey, where did that post go?" (which is just a different kind of derailment).

I'm probably wrong; but 1 would certainly prove a difficult challenge; and 2 is just human nature :/
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lemur wrote:
I *suspect* one of two things:

1 - it can't be done, with the current way the DB is structured; or

2 - it would lead to people asking, "Hey, where did that post go?" (which is just a different kind of derailment).

I'm probably wrong; but 1 would certainly prove a difficult challenge; and 2 is just human nature :/


#1 can be done, as it has happened before several times (in RSP it has happened when a user broke the hardline rules about nudity/sexual content and the mods had no problem simply deleting posts)

#2 wouldn't happen nearly as often if people never saw (or don't remember) the deleted post. Having a placeholder saying "THIS POST WAS DELETED" only draws attention to its absence.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Ronkonkoma
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Lemur wrote:
I *suspect* one of two things:

1 - it can't be done, with the current way the DB is structured; or

2 - it would lead to people asking, "Hey, where did that post go?" (which is just a different kind of derailment).

I'm probably wrong; but 1 would certainly prove a difficult challenge; and 2 is just human nature :/


#1 can be done, as it has happened before several times (in RSP it has happened when a user broke the hardline rules about nudity/sexual content and the mods had no problem simply deleting posts)

#2 wouldn't happen nearly as often if people never saw (or don't remember) the deleted post. Having a placeholder saying "THIS POST WAS DELETED" only draws attention to its absence.




Can't disagree with you then (didn't know/remember about #1) -- but #2 has to happen FAST; or it's already too late.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Désirée Greverud
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
Keeper of the Sacred Aardvark
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Lemur wrote:
I *suspect* one of two things:

1 - it can't be done, with the current way the DB is structured; or

2 - it would lead to people asking, "Hey, where did that post go?" (which is just a different kind of derailment).

I'm probably wrong; but 1 would certainly prove a difficult challenge; and 2 is just human nature :/


#1 can be done, as it has happened before several times (in RSP it has happened when a user broke the hardline rules about nudity/sexual content and the mods had no problem simply deleting posts)

#2 wouldn't happen nearly as often if people never saw (or don't remember) the deleted post. Having a placeholder saying "THIS POST WAS DELETED" only draws attention to its absence.


as someone involved in the discussions leading to the new policy, I feel I can safely say that reason for leaving the post but removing the content is in case a comment is removed in error, it can be restored. no solution is perfect, but I'm quite happy with how it's been working so far
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is like leaving a head on a pike, but removing all the distinguishing marks... makes the userbase that skews towards intentionally disruptive realize that if they want to leave a mark, their efforts are going to be immediately laundered out, leaving an anonymous trace of their once, disruptive presence. It is a sign to them, that no matter what they think they are going to produce, nothing will come of it.

So far, this is working out great.

This isn't about clean lines or non-distraction (empty placeholders), but user behavior modification.

Although, I can see if one is prone to OCD and unclutter, this may cause some discomfort.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
This film's crap, let's slash the seats
United Kingdom
Huddersfield
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The one thing I would say that we've learnt from the thread is that the red x system is really prone to abuse. At the very least, falsely flagging posts you disagree with as rules violations should be looked at.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
The one thing I would say that we've learnt from the thread is that the red x system is really prone to abuse. At the very least, falsely flagging posts you disagree with as rules violations should be looked at.


Trying to manually judge on a case-by-case basis whether someone red-x-ed sincerely or just because they disagreed with someone saying their favorite game is boring sounds very difficult (and labor-intensive).

So I wonder whether the following technical idea would be a workable easy way to automate that terrible-sounding task:

For each user, the system could automatically track of what proportion of the comments which they red-x-ed as a violation were later judged to indeed be violations by an admin. And then the "weight" of their "vote" when they red-x comments could be inversely proportional to that. Thus people who tend to give many "false alarms" would be increasingly ignored: in the extreme case, a user who flagged only falsely would contribute zero to collapsing future posts: i.e. their red-x-ing would have no effect as long as they continued to bogusly flag.

And a user who very reliably only flagged clear violations which were always recognized as such by admins would have their flagging contributing a full vote, like (apparently) everyone does in the current system.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fambans wrote:
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
The one thing I would say that we've learnt from the thread is that the red x system is really prone to abuse. At the very least, falsely flagging posts you disagree with as rules violations should be looked at.


You've just learned there's abuse of the red-x now? Seems to me, it's been that way for a long time. Otherwise it wouldn't say in the rules:
Quote:
Do not moderate maliciously or label something as a Rules Violation simply because you disagree with it; instead use the Personal hide option.


If you get red X'd, but didn't do anything wrong/broke any site rules, you aren't getting moderated.

If you get modded, you deserved it. Quite simple.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
darthhugo wrote:
If you get red X'd, but didn't do anything wrong/broke any site rules, you aren't getting moderated.

Right, but your post might still be unjustly hidden (from people who have their account set to hide red-x-ed posts).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
If you get red X'd, but didn't do anything wrong/broke any site rules, you aren't getting moderated.

Right, but your post might still be unjustly hidden (from people who have their account set to hide red-x-ed posts).


but what penalty is that... it just harvests out the lazy. If one can't click an up arrow on a few comments, then one isn't worthy of reading my well structured prose.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Johnson
United States
Azusa
California
flag msg tools
One of Alabama 3's finest songs, especially the versions on the single this image is from...
badge
Sweet Pretty M*th*rf*ck*ng Country Acid House Music - All night long!
Avatar
Malicious red-x-ing can and will drop initial posts off of the front page.

Malicious abuse of this has been a long-standing issue, as it takes shockingly few red-xes to hide posts.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
This film's crap, let's slash the seats
United Kingdom
Huddersfield
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Should just bring back downvoting instead. It's a lot more honest and doesn't allow these kinds of exploits.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant
United States
Cuyahoga Falls
Ohio
flag msg tools
One of the best gaming weekends in Ohio since 2010. Search facebook for "BOGA Weekend Retreat" for more info!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I've just discovered that your post will be deleted for quoting an offensive post, even if you remove the offensive text (or all text, for that matter) from the quote block.

I wonder how this will work if the person you're quoting has made other posts that aren't being deleted, and it's not entirely clear which one you're actually quoting?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant
United States
Cuyahoga Falls
Ohio
flag msg tools
One of the best gaming weekends in Ohio since 2010. Search facebook for "BOGA Weekend Retreat" for more info!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Should just bring back downvoting instead. It's a lot more honest and doesn't allow these kinds of exploits.

I wish I had a quick and convenient way of disagreeing with this sentiment.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Ronkonkoma
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grant5 wrote:
Well, I've just discovered that your post will be deleted for quoting an offensive post, even if you remove the offensive text (or all text, for that matter) from the quote block.

I wonder how this will work if the person you're quoting has made other posts that aren't being deleted, and it's not entirely clear which one you're actually quoting?



It really doesn't matter anymore (to quote SNL).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I've always appreciated BGG's longtime policy of not deleting offending post. It really set it apart from other online communities where you just have to *hope* the mods are doing a good job. Here we had transparency. Now it's gone.

The community seems to support the change. Okay, that's fine. Just makes BGG a little less unique and me a little more skeptical of moderation.

But on that recently locked thread about Signum, a post was outright deleted, with no "This post was removed" marker. Perhaps it wasn't from moderation, maybe the user deleted it themselves. Or maybe the account was nuked?

But if not, the post was deleted without even the marker that a post was removed. That's worrisome.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The account was deleted - consistent with how we handle suspended users posting under alternate accounts.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Octavian wrote:
The account was deleted - consistent with how we handle suspended users posting under alternate accounts.


So it is the official policy to ALWAYS leave a post removed marker unless the whole account was removed?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:
Octavian wrote:
The account was deleted - consistent with how we handle suspended users posting under alternate accounts.


So it is the official policy to ALWAYS leave a post removed marker unless the whole account was removed?


Not always - but for most normal instances of forum moderation yes. The stub indicating a post was removed still allows admins to review the removed content and possibly restore it if a mistake is made.

We will continue to outright delete content that we have always deleted - self-promoting, spam, porn, etc
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
[1]  Prev «  2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6  Next »  [6] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.