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Subject: The Vagabond's Relations With Other Factions rss

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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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I really like the dynamics that emerge out the vagabond and the other factions. With respect to the core game:

The Marquise is the natural target for aiding in the early game. The cats are everywhere, so they’re available for easily handing cards to, and going hostile against them makes moving around much harder, so you don’t want to do that. They’re also a bit low on the power curve, and could definitely use the help, but handing them non-bird cards is not actually that useful, so you don’t need to worry about over-buffing them.

The Eyrie instead is a natural target for going hostile against. They tend not to craft much, so that removes incentive to want to aid them, and they’re present enough that you can easily get to one of their clearings to beat them up, but not so omnipresent that it makes life hard for you. A typical tactic is to slip into their clearing, fight on favorable terms, then use a boot to retreat back behind the Marquise’s lines to help avoid retaliation on their turn.

The Woodland Alliance doesn’t have enough early board presence to make much interaction attractive, but they do spread eventually. The Vagabond is well suited to killing their sympathy, as the Vagabond can enter their clearings at no cost and only pays a card for destroying their token. This leads to the hilarious “frenemies” dynamic of the Vagabond repeatedly entering a sympathetic clearing, handing over their matching cards via Aid for some points, then attacking the undefended Sympathy for a point and revealing a hand depleted in that suit to avoid losing cards for no benefit.
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Mathis Lurtz
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Quote:
This leads to the hilarious “frenemies” dynamic of the Vagabond repeatedly entering a sympathetic clearing, handing over their matching cards via Aid for some points, then attacking the undefended Sympathy for a point and revealing a hand depleted in that suit to avoid losing cards for no benefit.

shouldn't he be hostile after the first token-removal and therefore get no VPs for the help actions the following turns? So this would work exactly once and not repeatedly.
 
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Andrea Mezzotero
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Yoven wrote:
Quote:
This leads to the hilarious “frenemies” dynamic of the Vagabond repeatedly entering a sympathetic clearing, handing over their matching cards via Aid for some points, then attacking the undefended Sympathy for a point and revealing a hand depleted in that suit to avoid losing cards for no benefit.

shouldn't he be hostile after the first token-removal and therefore get no VPs for the help actions the following turns? So this would work exactly once and not repeatedly.


Nope, you go hostile on removing a warrior of the target faction.
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Mark Watson
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Santiago wrote:

The Marquise is the natural target for aiding in the early game. The cats are everywhere, so they’re available for easily handing cards to, and going hostile against them makes moving around much harder, so you don’t want to do that.

I think the main benefit of aiding Cat is that she's usually the least in need of cards, so feeding her the items you want crafted can pay dividends. The problem of course is if the player is familiar with the mechanics - they also understand how painful it is for the vagabond if they turn hostile, and they've the least to lose by doing so.
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Ed Hughes
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Depends a lot on which vagabond you are.

The badger is a natural ally to he woodland alliance. Just park yourself on a sympathy token and defend it against attacks for free vp.

The wolf is best off killing cats because they’re such plentiful targets.



 
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Lord Loki
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themanfromsaturn wrote:
Depends a lot on which vagabond you are.

The badger is a natural ally to he woodland alliance. Just park yourself on a sympathy token and defend it against attacks for free vp.

The wolf is best off killing cats because they’re such plentiful targets.



Isn't the Vagabond the natural enemy for WA? Can enter clearings with sympathy without losing cards. Can rack up some easy victory points by attacking WA.
 
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Matt R
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MCLondon wrote:
themanfromsaturn wrote:
Depends a lot on which vagabond you are.

The badger is a natural ally to he woodland alliance. Just park yourself on a sympathy token and defend it against attacks for free vp.

The wolf is best off killing cats because they’re such plentiful targets.



Isn't the Vagabond the natural enemy for WA? Can enter clearings with sympathy without losing cards. Can rack up some easy victory points by attacking WA.


Not necessarily. Depends on how much of a beating they are receiving from the other factions, plus, they can craft pretty easily sometimes so they may do a lot of crafting that the Vagabond could benefit from. There's a lot of "meta" gaming that goes along with Root so there isn't always a correct way of handling something - it's very situational.
 
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Lord Loki
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Santiago wrote:
I really like the dynamics that emerge out the vagabond and the other factions. With respect to the core game:

The Marquise is the natural target for aiding in the early game. The cats are everywhere, so they’re available for easily handing cards to, and going hostile against them makes moving around much harder, so you don’t want to do that. They’re also a bit low on the power curve, and could definitely use the help, but handing them non-bird cards is not actually that useful, so you don’t need to worry about over-buffing them.

The Eyrie instead is a natural target for going hostile against. They tend not to craft much, so that removes incentive to want to aid them, and they’re present enough that you can easily get to one of their clearings to beat them up, but not so omnipresent that it makes life hard for you. A typical tactic is to slip into their clearing, fight on favorable terms, then use a boot to retreat back behind the Marquise’s lines to help avoid retaliation on their turn.

The Woodland Alliance doesn’t have enough early board presence to make much interaction attractive, but they do spread eventually. The Vagabond is well suited to killing their sympathy, as the Vagabond can enter their clearings at no cost and only pays a card for destroying their token. This leads to the hilarious “frenemies” dynamic of the Vagabond repeatedly entering a sympathetic clearing, handing over their matching cards via Aid for some points, then attacking the undefended Sympathy for a point and revealing a hand depleted in that suit to avoid losing cards for no benefit.


I disagree. The cats are terrible crafters. You're giving them cards in exchange for nothing. They make for a poor ally in that sense.

The WA is probably the player that should be buttering you up the most. You don't have to give him cards when entering his clearings, which makes you very good at dealing with WA. Also they are good crafters, so there may be some synergy there. Plus they need cards badly.
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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MCLondon wrote:
I disagree. The cats are terrible crafters. You're giving them cards in exchange for nothing. They make for a poor ally in that sense.

The WA is probably the player that should be buttering you up the most. You don't have to give him cards when entering his clearings, which makes you very good at dealing with WA. Also they are good crafters, so there may be some synergy there. Plus they need cards badly.


Most of the time, you're not giving cards for items; you're giving cards for points. If you're playing right, you'll have way more cards available than other people are crafting items. The goal is to turn them into points, while also shoring up the factions in the back to help them attack the leader (other than yourself).

The cats are a great place to turn your early hand into points, and if you push them all the way to allied, you have a rather large army at your command. The Woodland Alliance is great at crafting, but tends to have poor board presence until late game, and you need to be careful to not just hand them an explosive victory.
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Lord Loki
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Santiago wrote:
MCLondon wrote:
I disagree. The cats are terrible crafters. You're giving them cards in exchange for nothing. They make for a poor ally in that sense.

The WA is probably the player that should be buttering you up the most. You don't have to give him cards when entering his clearings, which makes you very good at dealing with WA. Also they are good crafters, so there may be some synergy there. Plus they need cards badly.


Most of the time, you're not giving cards for items; you're giving cards for points. If you're playing right, you'll have way more cards available than other people are crafting items. The goal is to turn them into points, while also shoring up the factions in the back to help them attack the leader (other than yourself).

The cats are a great place to turn your early hand into points, and if you push them all the way to allied, you have a rather large army at your command. The Woodland Alliance is great at crafting, but tends to have poor board presence until late game, and you need to be careful to not just hand them an explosive victory.


That's why you have to be careful what you give WA. The issue with giving cats cards is that you can't give them to someone else that is crafting items. And until you get coins you are drawing one card per turn.So I think giving cats cards is frankly not worth the victory points, unless maybe you are playing Tinkerer and aren't relying on others for items.
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