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Subject: BGG community/administration. Good friends or worst enemies? rss

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Bryan Thunkd
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
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Yes, that is clearly the only possible explanation. It couldn't have anything to do with you bullying and/or annoying them into submission. Nope. Can't be that.


We just very different. If I claimed someone in proved violation, and they will bullying me for that, I would rather prove their violation and fight against that instead of accepting and hiding like a coward.
Someone backing down from the threat of legal action isn't an admission they're wrong. It's just a sign that they don't want to get involved in the hassle and cost of defending themselves against a lawsuit. You, as part of a company, have more incentive and financial motivation to engage in a lawsuit. And you're using that as a cudgel to threaten and bully people.

Arguing with people in this thread and insulting them, like calling them cowards, is a horrible PR move. You're just engendering animosity and making yourself look bad. It's not professional. Every comment you make here is hurting you. Your best option is to just walk away and say nothing more.

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Dennis McCarthy
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Kaixo wrote:
If I went to your game's page and saw a singular negative comment, I, and most people, would have probably written it off as a possible troll or as someone with a grudge. It would have ment very little here at BGG.

How you're handling this is bad. It makes me think one of two things is happening:

1. You might be innocent, but you have bad judgement and no ability to handle yourself professionally. Why would I choose to give money to someone with bad judgement?

2. Maybe the commenter is correct.


This. So very much this.

You are very much dipping into the Streisand effect again.

This is one of the worst possible ways you could have gone about garnering public support for your cause. You are coming off as a bully and a blowhard. Bringing this argument back to the forefront and defaming BGG site administration is only going to develop negative reactions towards your company and product into full-fledged animosity.

Stop this discussion. Apologize for behaving badly and go back to trying to make you game better.

A game that I will not be buying at this point. If you are the face of the company, you are doing naught but proving that your studio exercises extremely poor judgement.
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
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If I went to your game's page and saw a singular negative comment, I, and most people, would have probably written it off. It would have ment very little here at BGG.

How you're handling this is bad. It makes me think one of two things is happening:

1. You might be innocent, but you have bad judgement and no ability to handle yourself professionally. Why would I choose to give money to someone with bad judgement?

2. Maybe the poster is correct.


Sometimes one bad comment about violating intellectual properties is enough
I doubt that this is unprofessional to fight against someone who tell the fake information about your campaign..
There is a proverb (it is translated from the Russian and it could sounds not exactly): If you will ignore a little evil made to you, you will not be prepared to a big one.



You can make a press release with professional wording. For example:

"Recently, there has been a singular unsubstantiated allegation claiming that we violated another company's intellectual property rights. This is false. We are currently working to clear our name. We thank our loyal customers for their support during this time. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to direct them to: email@email.com"

It would address with the issue with the BGG community without making you look unstable.

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Thunkd wrote:
LegendsOfSignum wrote:
Quote:
Yes, that is clearly the only possible explanation. It couldn't have anything to do with you bullying and/or annoying them into submission. Nope. Can't be that.


We just very different. If I claimed someone in proved violation, and they will bullying me for that, I would rather prove their violation and fight against that instead of accepting and hiding like a coward.
Someone backing down from the threat of legal action isn't an admission they're wrong. It's just a sign that they don't want to get involved in the hassle and cost of defending themselves against a lawsuit. You, as part of a company, have more incentive and financial motivation to engage in a lawsuit. And you're using that as a cudgel to threaten and bully people.

Arguing with people in this thread and insulting them, like calling them cowards, is a horrible PR move. You're just engendering animosity and making yourself look bad. It's not professional. Every comment you make here is hurting you. Your best option is to just walk away and say nothing more.


Don't listen to him, Legends! Your righteous outrage at your enemies and detractors is TOTALLY justified, and all of your responses to them are VERY sympathetic. Keep on fighting the good fight!!1! Don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise. I'm with you!
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Legend Signum
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For all the rest I could answer only one thing. You just read the post inattentively.
About things that I insulting someone - I don't know where you find the insult. If "like a coward" is an insult, than ok.
Is it a bullying to stand against the trolls? Ok, well then. I'm surprised I'm here alone and noone is on my side.
The people are glad to tell everybody about a bad judgement until they will face something which touch particularly them or their family.


First time I see the whole community defend trolls and violators.
Did I tell them about sue and the like? Does it matter?
You like to see to the one who bullying the violators who deserves it and ignore the problem of inactive administration on that issue and spreading/ignoring the trolls and provocators.

I guess I speak with the people who would rather do the same defamation posts instead of peace - it's really first time I see that.

In one of my posts i made suggesting frase "With such approach this community will wither and rot after all, it will became full of trolls and aggressive persons. It's your decision to have the community you think you deserve."
And probably it already is...
 
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Legends of Signum,

Designing, playtesting, developing, and ultimately publishing a good game is really hard. Like, it involves literally dozens of skills, none of which are taught in either primary or secondary education.

All this thread does to me is demonstrate that you very likely have none of or very few the skills required, based on how you're handling this situation.

I am very sad for the people who gave you money during your Kickstarter campaign.
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Legend Signum
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Legends of Signum,

Designing, play testing, developing, and ultimately publishing a good game is really hard. Like, it involves literally dozens of skills, none of which are taught in either primary or secondary education.

All this thread does to me is demonstrate that you very likely have none of or very few the skills required, based on how you're handling this situation.

I am very sad for the people who gave you money during your Kickstarter campaign.


As I told before, this community full of trolls.
After reviewing this conversation you make a conclusion about game developing process which has nothing in common in between.

I wish you will never face defamation in your life, especially in difficult moments, but this is the only way you will see on yourself handling this situation.

I am very sad this community turned into something evil and agressive.
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
I'm surprised I'm here alone and noone is on my side.


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Bryan Thunkd
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
For all the rest I could answer only one thing. You just read the post inattentively.
So the problems you're running into here... are everyone else's fault. Got it.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
About things that I insulting someone - I don't know where you find the insult. If "like a coward" is an insult, than ok.
If you want to sell this you have to give it 110%. It's not enough to pretend you don't understand that this is an insult. You have to claim that it's a compliment!

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
Is it a bullying to stand against the trolls?
Not if you did it the way Katie suggested above. But when you threaten people with legal action, hoping that they won't be willing to fight a lawsuit... yeah, that's bullying. You're forcing people to kowtow to your whims because they're not in a position to stand up to your threats. That's literally the definition of bully.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
Ok, well then. I'm surprised I'm here alone and noone is on my side.
Which speaks to your judgement and why continuing to defend yourself is just going to dig you deeper into the hole you've been digging for yourself. Seriously, you aren't doing yourself any favors here. Cut your losses before you make it worse.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
The people are glad to tell everybody about a bad judgement until they will face something which touch particularly them or their family.
Should such a thing happen to me, I'll try not post argumentative, insulting, whining posts about it, but rather strive for a professional decorum. (Again, see Katie's post above for an example of how you should have handled this.)

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
First time I see the whole community defend trolls and violators.
And yet publishers coming in and complaining about ratings and comments happens on a frequent basis and almost always ends in this exact same way. Maybe you should engage with a community and understand it before you come in and recreate a rant we see every couple of months.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
Did I tell them about sue and the like? Does it matter? You like to see to the one who bullying the violators who deserves it and ignore the problem of inactive administration on that issue and spreading/ignoring the trolls and provocators.
So here's the thing... random people on the internet misbehaving risk little. Sure, they might damage their reputation, but who cares? When someone who represents a company comes in and behaves poorly they're risking their companies reputation. And the answer to "Who cares?" in that case is every potential customer on BGG who sees your bad behavior and thinks poorly of your company. So, even if you are in the the right here, how you present yourself matters. And you're doing a real job of mucking it up. There are few worse ways you could have presented your case here. You really need to step back and have someone who has some perspective step in and say "From a PR perspective, what's the best way to respond?" Because I guarantee, what you're doing right now isn't good for you.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
I guess I speak with the people who would rather do the same defamation posts instead of peace - it's really first time I see that.
You're obviously outside your area of familiarity. That should be a signal that you might not know the best way to proceed. And that you should figure out the best course of action before you respond and make things worse yet again.

LegendsOfSignum wrote:
In one of my posts i made suggesting frase "With such approach this community will wither and rot after all, it will became full of trolls and aggressive persons. It's your decision to have the community you think you deserve."
And probably it already is...
What's more likley... that BGG is just a haven of bad people who are actively looking to cause problems for publishers, i.e. there's a giant conspiracy at work here, or that this is just a regular community and you've been a bit too aggressive and argumentative and thus brought this reaction on yourself?

Try this... call a PR firm and explain to them that someone posted something factually untrue about your company online and that you threatened to sue them, complained to the site administration and when that didn't work you started a post complaining about the site on the site itself and then proceeded to get into arguments with people on the site... after which many users started giving your products bad ratings and comments. Ask them if your actions were good PR moves and whether you should continue in this manner.
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
...could make bad first impress and scare the people who probably were interested in our game. ...

This and your other thread in the complaints department were my first exposure to your company. They gave me the worst possible impression of you and your team.
You're actually really lucky that both threads got moved here since it's one of the more obscure corners of the geek.

I'm sure to never buy anything from your company and will suggest the same to others.

Oh, and if you seriously want to go on in this business you will need a strong publicity team.
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
Quote:
Legends of Signum,

Designing, play testing, developing, and ultimately publishing a good game is really hard. Like, it involves literally dozens of skills, none of which are taught in either primary or secondary education.

All this thread does to me is demonstrate that you very likely have none of or very few the skills required, based on how you're handling this situation.

I am very sad for the people who gave you money during your Kickstarter campaign.


As I told before, this community full of trolls.
After reviewing this conversation you make a conclusion about game developing process which has nothing in common in between.

I wish you will never face defamation in your life, especially in difficult moments, but this is the only way you will see on yourself handling this situation.

I am very sad this community turned into something evil and agressive.
You make a good point. Game design in a team sport. It's very possible you have people on your team who know how to make a game. Maybe you should consider asking them to handle PR too.
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cbazler wrote:
You want to crowdfund? Get ready for the crowd.

Also: Be careful of what you wish for. This could backfire. The more you push this issue and try to micromanage what strangers on the internet say about you or your game, threatening vague and legally tenuous litigious action, the more likely you are to annoy even more bystanders who won't hesitate to give your game a "1" rating for no reason.



EDIT: And I see it is already happening


I've never rated a one before, but this may well be my first.
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Bryan Thunkd
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
I am very sad this community turned into something evil and agressive.
Ask yourself why this community doesn't respond this way to every publisher and every kickstarter that comes along. If this was really an evil and aggressive community then you'd expect them to target everybody... so why is it that you're running into this problem when many publishers and kickstarters don't. The reason is because the way you're presenting yourself.

And here's the perfect example... why did you post saying that you're sad that the community here is evil and aggressive? How can that possibly help you? If it's true, you're just egging the community on and giving them yet another reason to target you. Maybe it made you feel a little better to lash out back against the people who you feel are attacking you? But attacking people and arguing with them in public isn't a good move for you. It doesn't look good. You gained nothing with that statement. You encouraged more people to argue with you. And by engaging in an argument and making hurtful comments you look childish, not professional.

Someone at your company needs to step in and stop you immediately. The actions you are taking are damaging your companies' reputation. And you're too close to the issue to see it, or too emotionally involved to be able to objectively stand back and choose the appropriate responses.

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bongoHerman wrote:
cbazler wrote:
You want to crowdfund? Get ready for the crowd.

Also: Be careful of what you wish for. This could backfire. The more you push this issue and try to micromanage what strangers on the internet say about you or your game, threatening vague and legally tenuous litigious action, the more likely you are to annoy even more bystanders who won't hesitate to give your game a "1" rating for no reason.



EDIT: And I see it is already happening


I've never rated a one before, but this may well be my first.


I've only given a single game a one. It was based on, what I felt was, an extremely bad design and implementation. I put in my comments everything that I felt was wrong with it.

I don't agree with people that rate a game a one without having played it. I will never do that personally, but there is nothing against the site policies that forbids people from doing this.

There are, however, rules forbidding name-calling, insults, and other poor behavior of that nature. Yevhenii, you have repeatedly broken those rules. Does that seem like you are interested in getting buy-in from the community on your position?

...or does that scream of a bit of narcissism and bad judgement?

Katie did her best to suggest, very politely, better courses of action. Her suggestion was meant to help redirect you into being an asset to your company. You responded to her in what could easily be taken as a rather sententious fashion. You lumped her in with the rest of an "evil and aggressive" community.

That was extremely poor form.

Thunkd and others have pointed out that if the majority of the community disagrees with you, that maybe the community isn't the problem. Maybe your attitude and actions toward that community may be problematic.

Yevhenii... Step away from the keyboard. Pass the community handling off to someone else. You are not doing your studio any favors here.
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Hey Legend,

Do you think you did a good job or a bad job in this thread?
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I almost feel sorry for him. I think he is legitimately trying to "right a wrong" and doesn't realize he is just digging a hole. Maybe I'll rate it a ten just for kicks.

What if I comment, I don't know anything about the game, but this guy needs a pity ten.
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Syvanis wrote:
I almost feel sorry for him. I think he is legitimately trying to "right a wrong" and doesn't realize he is just digging a hole. Maybe I'll rate it a ten just for kicks.

What if I comment, I don't know anything about the game, but this guy needs a pity ten.


I'd agree if he didn't already give himself a pity ten.
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I don't know if someone leaving a comment of "This company violates intellectual property, their Kickstarter was stopped. Avoid." and a 1 rating will push people away from your games, but i do know that this post will push me to avoid your games. Bad form. Learn to live online.
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It's almost always bad PR to threaten to sue any individual. You just shouldn't do it. There's no real upside to such a meaningless and empty threat.

A fairly well known publisher threatened to sue me a while back for a comment I posted online. Granted, my comment was incorrect and after checking I amended it, but I probably would have done that anyway if the guy simply told me I was wrong, without the absurd threat. My opinion of the guy has been negative ever since.

Pete (still buys his company's games, though)
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Dude, just stop. Stuff like this is what turns communities against publishers. It doesn't matter what issues you had with Kickstarter, you've handled the fallout incredibly poorly on BGG, and people remember that when evaluating this game and any future ones you may try to put out.
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LegendsOfSignum wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
I dunno, maybe this whole game creation gig isn't really for you...


I doubt I would name you a bully.
...5 minutes later...
LegendsOfSignum wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
I am very sad for the people who gave you money during your Kickstarter campaign.


As I told before, this community full of trolls.

I am very sad this community turned into something evil and agressive.
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Clyde W
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But to answer the OP's question.

Definitely good friends!
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
I've rated you a 1. Go on then, take me to court.


That’s not what the issue is.

cbazler wrote:
You want to crowdfund? Get ready for the crowd.


This is what the issue is.
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This is a joke, right?
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J J
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Just in case you were wondering what he is referring to, and you don't frequent the Complaints Department: Legends of Signum on BGG, problem with administration
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