Jon Purkis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
youtube.com/c/actualol
badge
Actualol Board Game Videos
Avatar
mbmb


As a direct result of customer feedback, Fog of Love, the romantic comedy board game, is launching two new covers to celebrate LGBTQ relationships. And there’s a new expansion in the pipeline, created in collaboration with prolific games designer, Nikki Valens, which focuses on telling stories about queer relationships.

The two new covers help celebrate the diversity of relationships that the game – and life – has to offer.

Fog of Love hired Nikki Valens – designer of Eldritch Horror, Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition and Legacy of Dragonholt – as a consultant to check every card and scenario, with the aim of ensuring the core game does the very best job of representing LGBTQ relationships. Her perspective as a member of the queer and transgender communities has ensured that scenes are more reflective of LGBTQ relationships.

The changes she has made are subtle but important and will be included in all future copies of the game – no matter the cover.

Nikki Valens says:
“When I first heard about Fog of Love, I was very intrigued. Romance is my favorite genre to read or watch, and I was excited to see how board games could approach the subject. The game really manages to capture the feeling of a romantic comedy or drama, but after playing the first time, something felt a bit ‘off’ to me. There were minor details that didn’t sit right with me. Not enough to make me not enjoy the game, but enough to make me feel uncomfortable. It was as if the game was meant for someone else.

I was excited for the chance to dig deeper and bring some of my experiences into the game, experiences that I know are shared by other members of the queer and trans communities. I’m happy with the changes we’ve made, and I think they make the game more inclusive for a queer audience.”


Fog of Love’s designer, Jacob Jaskov says:
“We wanted to make the original game as inclusive as possible. However, I’m a heterosexual male and no matter how much I tried, there were a few details I was bound to miss or be inadvertently blind to. When we launched the game last year, people loved that we’d made queer relationships possible in the game through the gender neutrality of characters, but feedback suggested that some elements felt awkward. When we initiated the reprint, we saw a chance improve on this…

Getting Nikki on board was a huge learning experience for me. Initially it was challenging to see our work dissected in such a way, but then, as we worked together to resolve the issues, I could clearly feel how the game improved due to the subtle changes we introduced. I’m thankful for the constructive criticism Nikki gave us and am confident the end result is a truly inclusive tabletop gaming experience for everyone.”


Nikki is currently also designing an upcoming expansion for Fog of Love that will focus on telling stories about queer relationships. And she will be showing her prototype for this at SHUX and Spiel 18 in Essen.

The new edition of Fog of Love in all three covers will be available in the coming weeks.
68 
 Thumb up
8.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dennis _
Germany
Halle
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Love is for everyone. Except for Germans.
Still no publisher interested? Hopefully, you'll find one at Spiel!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Purkis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
youtube.com/c/actualol
badge
Actualol Board Game Videos
Avatar
mbmb
Affensohn wrote:
Love is for everyone. Except for Germans.
Still no publisher interested? Hopefully, you'll find one at Spiel!

We do have plans in motion for a German version of the game. We expect to have it released next year.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Will there be any kind of upgrade kit that those of us who purchased an original kickstarter copy can use to get the new cards, versus having to buy an entire new base game?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Purkis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
youtube.com/c/actualol
badge
Actualol Board Game Videos
Avatar
mbmb
jda1974 wrote:
Will there be any kind of upgrade kit that those of us who purchased an original kickstarter copy can use to get the new cards, versus having to buy an entire new base game?

We are looking into the option of an upgrade kit.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des T.
Germany
flag msg tools
This user optimizes his gaming experience.
badge
This user might be a mutant in hiding.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Will the Queer Expansion also include the asexual/aromantic spectrum, or would that bloat it too much?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zerth
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
It is I.
badge
The blade will not exist if it is taken from me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Have the cards in the three expansions that were part of the original KS been updated as well? Or there was nothing to change there?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kissgg wrote:
Have the cards in the three expansions that were part of the original KS been updated as well? Or there was nothing to change there?

There was at least one card in one of the expansions that had errors (not LGBTQ related), so hopefully that one gets an update at some point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paris

Monforte de Lemos
LUGO
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is so wonderful, I can't express how much my heart is exploding over this. Thank you for being a guiding light in the future of board gaming.

I would love to hear some behind the scenes stuff about the conversations around these changes, what kinds of changes were made.

Any which way, you have greatly inreased my chance of getting a hold of this game. Thank you thank you thank you.

<3

Paris
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paris

Monforte de Lemos
LUGO
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Any hints as to when these new revised versions are coming out?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
pacemaker 67
United States
Naperville
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Serious question if you can answer for the US version(s):

Did you get any resistance from Walmart about this? IIRC, they have been less than great in the past about carrying certain albums or DVDs. Or is Walmart out of the picture now?

edit: It's good to see this at the website :

https://www.walmart.com/browse/pride-shop/c2hlbGZfaWQ6NzQzOQ...

But Walmart is still asking for some CD edits; not sure about other creative content..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des T.
Germany
flag msg tools
This user optimizes his gaming experience.
badge
This user might be a mutant in hiding.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jda1974 wrote:
Will there be any kind of upgrade kit that those of us who purchased an original kickstarter copy can use to get the new cards, versus having to buy an entire new base game?

I asked that question in Essen, and upgrade kits will be a thing.

That being said, I've been at roughly twenty expos, mostly Essen Spielt and the Frankfurt Book Fair, working on stands at roughly half of them. Meeting Nikki and Jacob provided for one of the most memorable and touching moments I've experienced at any of them.

If you get a chance to meet them, you should.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
U. N. Owen
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I posted this in the "General" forum but wanted to list it here as well.

I checked Walmart's website here in the US this morning and they are listing all alternative covers as available:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fog-of-Love-Board-Game/520738534
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paris

Monforte de Lemos
LUGO
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ATTWNFan wrote:
I posted this in the "General" forum but wanted to list it here as well.

I checked Walmart's website here in the US this morning and they are listing all alternative covers as available:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fog-of-Love-Board-Game/520738534

Any word on the European market?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
U. N. Owen
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
patrocles wrote:
Any word on the European market?

Nothing as of yet, unfortunately. I checked the game's website and found this list. Hope this helps!

https://www.fogoflove.com/buy
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sami Niromaa
Finland
Akaa
-
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
patrocles wrote:
ATTWNFan wrote:
I posted this in the "General" forum but wanted to list it here as well.

I checked Walmart's website here in the US this morning and they are listing all alternative covers as available:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fog-of-Love-Board-Game/520738534

Any word on the European market?

In Finland I've seen the alternate covers in boardgame stores.

S.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Malloy
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is sooooooo huge! Thank you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James J

Texas
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I normally roll my eyes a bit when I hear the old "this gender/race/religion/etc should be represented in a game and can only be designed/written/drawn/etc by a person from that group". I guess I've been lucky to grow up around diverse peoples and values, so I take it for granted. And some diversity measures these days are decidedly ham-fisted. But Fog of Love occupies a unique space where having that tailored perspective is valuable. As an original Kickstarter backer, I don't know that I'd buy additional expansions/upgrade packs. But I'd love to see a breakdown (if Ms. Valens has the time) of some of the changes/corrections and the thinking behind them. I think that would be a fascinating read.

One thing I did point out to my spouse with a rueful chuckle was the new alternate covers. I was one of the many backers who spoke out against the change from the prototype cover, which depicted an energetic, bubbly couple. The change to static poses, in opposite colors, facing away from each other was clearly adversarial. No doubt part of the advice given to Jacob was that the LGBTQ covers better show much more affectionate poses or face a potential firestorm of criticism. The difference in body language across the 3 covers is so striking it's hilarious. If there is more to it than a pre-emptive PR deflection, that's another conversation I'd find fascinating. I don't recall the exact reason for the original change, but I thought it had something to do with making the game stand out on the shelf. Maybe marketing gurus suggested that implied conflict would draw in traditional couples? And if the 180 degree change to super affectionate poses isn't just to avoid criticism, maybe it suggests LGBTQ couples don't enjoy conflict as much? (That's not to say games with conflict wouldn't appeal to that group but that a game about relationships with conflict wouldn't appeal as much, possibly because such relationships have been historically much more difficult from the start due to societal pressures of the past.) I'm spitballing here, but you get my gist. The visual change is dramatic and undeniable. Understanding the reason for that change would be educational.

Apologies for the wall o'text, but I think about where we are heading and the best way to get there quite often. And as much as "yay! queer corrections/artwork!" is a definite step forward, digging a little deeper is far more likely to further our collective understanding and growth. I sincerely hope nobody takes something out of context and gets upset. I do like to poke a wry bit of fun at all sides, but that sometimes doesn't read well, particularly if a keyword immediately paints me as some intolerant, frothing monster. LOL. Nope. Mixed-race marriage, both of us having lived all over the US and abroad, and both with lots of queer loved ones (in both of our immediate families and our friends). I grew up loving Disney and musical theatre and was often targeted as gay due to my lack of machismo and effeminate mannerisms. So while I myself may not be gay, I've taken more than one sucker punch to the face for appearing like one. Intolerant a-holes and "the enemy of my enemy" and all that...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
japester1 wrote:
I normally roll my eyes a bit when I hear the old "this gender/race/religion/etc should be represented in a game and can only be designed/written/drawn/etc by a person from that group". I guess I've been lucky to grow up around diverse peoples and values, so I take it for granted. And some diversity measures these days are decidedly ham-fisted. But Fog of Love occupies a unique space where having that tailored perspective is valuable. As an original Kickstarter backer, I don't know that I'd buy additional expansions/upgrade packs. But I'd love to see a breakdown (if Ms. Valens has the time) of some of the changes/corrections and the thinking behind them. I think that would be a fascinating read.

One thing I did point out to my spouse with a rueful chuckle was the new alternate covers. I was one of the many backers who spoke out against the change from the prototype cover, which depicted an energetic, bubbly couple. The change to static poses, in opposite colors, facing away from each other was clearly adversarial. No doubt part of the advice given to Jacob was that the LGBTQ covers better show much more affectionate poses or face a potential firestorm of criticism. The difference in body language across the 3 covers is so striking it's hilarious. If there is more to it than a pre-emptive PR deflection, that's another conversation I'd find fascinating. I don't recall the exact reason for the original change, but I thought it had something to do with making the game stand out on the shelf. Maybe marketing gurus suggested that implied conflict would draw in traditional couples? And if the 180 degree change to super affectionate poses isn't just to avoid criticism, maybe it suggests LGBTQ couples don't enjoy conflict as much? (That's not to say games with conflict wouldn't appeal to that group but that a game about relationships with conflict wouldn't appeal as much, possibly because such relationships have been historically much more difficult from the start due to societal pressures of the past.) I'm spitballing here, but you get my gist. The visual change is dramatic and undeniable. Understanding the reason for that change would be educational.

Apologies for the wall o'text, but I think about where we are heading and the best way to get there quite often. And as much as "yay! queer corrections/artwork!" is a definite step forward, digging a little deeper is far more likely to further our collective understanding and growth. I sincerely hope nobody takes something out of context and gets upset. I do like to poke a wry bit of fun at all sides, but that sometimes doesn't read well, particularly if a keyword immediately paints me as some intolerant, frothing monster. LOL. Nope. Mixed-race marriage, both of us having lived all over the US and abroad, and both with lots of queer loved ones (in both of our immediate families and our friends). I grew up loving Disney and musical theatre and was often targeted as gay due to my lack of machismo and effeminate mannerisms. So while I myself may not be gay, I've taken more than one sucker punch to the face for appearing like one. Intolerant a-holes and "the enemy of my enemy" and all that...

As a gay man, I can tell you I noticed the differences of the poses on the covers immediately and found it an interesting design choice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zerth
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
It is I.
badge
The blade will not exist if it is taken from me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know if you have tried the game - I have played it a lot already (and it's brilliant). It starts off like those happy LGBTQ couples on the alternative covers. But as you move on into deeper territory, it devolves into what the straight couple depicts on the old cover, and with the new expansions it ventures into even more cruel territories. (Emotional harrassment, manipulation, toxic expectations, conditional love, dirty secrets, nasty games people play with each other, even emotionally abusive/controlling relationships.) I have slowly realized that I had been lied to, it is not a "romantic comedy board game", but a relationship simulator, with all its ups and downs.

At this point (especially with expansions Fog of Love: It Will Never Last and Fog of Love: Trouble with the In-Laws), it definitely helps if you feel secure with the person you are playing with - because it is super easy to get triggered. I hope I have not scared you away from the game - trust me, this is truly brilliant. Just don't use it for one of your first dates, that's probably a very bad idea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des T.
Germany
flag msg tools
This user optimizes his gaming experience.
badge
This user might be a mutant in hiding.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kissgg wrote:
..., and with the new expansions it ventures into even more cruel territories...

Partial disagree.

Whenever I play with my neighbor, we play games where the partners do their best to make each other miserable, for no other reason than "for the lulz".

On the other hand, when I play with my wife, the games are more often about two people fighting for their relationship. In all our games, we've never played an "abusive relation".

I agree that the game has the potential to go down some nasty roads. I also mostly agree that, once you know the mechanics of the game by heart and can focus on telling a story, it does sometimes feel like "Relationship Simulator - The Board Game".

But I absolutely disagree with the game going to "dark topics" being the rule instead of the exception. I'm pretty sure that it's a case where the player shapes their game experience, perhaps even projecting their own experiences/wishes/expectations.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zerth
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
It is I.
badge
The blade will not exist if it is taken from me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DeS_Tructive wrote:
kissgg wrote:
..., and with the new expansions it ventures into even more cruel territories...

Partial disagree.

Whenever I play with my neighbor, we play games where the partners do their best to make each other miserable, for no other reason than "for the lulz".

On the other hand, when I play with my wife, the games are more often about two people fighting for their relationship. In all our games, we've never played an "abusive relation".

I agree that the game has the potential to go down some nasty roads. I also mostly agree that, once you know the mechanics of the game by heart and can focus on telling a story, it does sometimes feel like "Relationship Simulator - The Board Game".

But I absolutely disagree with the game going to "dark topics" being the rule instead of the exception. I'm pretty sure that it's a case where the player shapes their game experience, perhaps even projecting their own experiences/wishes/expectations.
You have phrased it much better than I did, and I pretty much agree with everything that you wrote (even the projection part). BTW, it has just come to my mind that even with the base game, we (my partner and I) managed to venture into darker territories when one of us decided to firmly aim for the "Dominance" destiny ... based on your personal vulnerabilities and past experiences (and especially on how secure you feel with the person you are playing with, as I wrote earlier), the game can hurt sometimes. (There goes the projection.) It does not make the game worse in my eyes, on the contrary!

A question (may or may not be related): when you are playing a Scene, do you expose the possible outcomes to the other player, or do you only read out the possible choices? We do only the latter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des T.
Germany
flag msg tools
This user optimizes his gaming experience.
badge
This user might be a mutant in hiding.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kissgg wrote:

A question (may or may not be related): when you are playing a Scene, do you expose the possible outcomes to the other player, or do you only read out the possible choices? We do only the latter.

We reveal what effects the choices will have. Anything else would be unfair (given that I have a very good memory for these kinds of things and the wife doesn't). Also, once you're playing with expansions (Especially PR and In-Laws), the game is already pretty challenging.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zerth
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
It is I.
badge
The blade will not exist if it is taken from me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DeS_Tructive wrote:
kissgg wrote:

A question (may or may not be related): when you are playing a Scene, do you expose the possible outcomes to the other player, or do you only read out the possible choices? We do only the latter.

We reveal what effects the choices will have. Anything else would be unfair (given that I have a very good memory for these kinds of things and the wife doesn't). Also, once you're playing with expansions (Especially PR and In-Laws), the game is already pretty challenging.

I see your point. For us, it's not unfair, as both of us have pretty bad memory for this kind of data. We prefer to play this game role-playing style, trying to react in a way the character with those traits/objectives/destinies would react (and I try to ignore the symbols on the scene card as I am reading it out myself). Likely, especially with the expansions, we end up in dramatic situations more often because we play this way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des T.
Germany
flag msg tools
This user optimizes his gaming experience.
badge
This user might be a mutant in hiding.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kissgg wrote:

I see your point. For us, it's not unfair, as both of us have pretty bad memory for this kind of data. We prefer to play this game role-playing style, trying to react in a way the character with those traits/objectives/destinies would react (and I try to ignore the symbols on the scene card as I am reading it out myself). Likely, especially with the expansions, we end up in dramatic situations more often because we play this way.

Interesting. We enjoy the heavy decisions involved when you're weighing up the attributes you need vs. what the partner needs vs. what the character should do (and the parents want, and the PR thing). I'd be missing something if it was only "what the character would do".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls