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Subject: Ban Kickstarter Games from the Recommendations Forum rss

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This film's crap, let's slash the seats
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It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.
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Bryan Thunkd
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But maybe the Kickstarter game is the exact blend of theme and mechanisms that matches the person’s taste.
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Thunkd wrote:
But maybe the Kickstarter game is the exact blend of theme and mechanisms that matches the person’s taste.


That could well be what is promised, but you can't know until you've actually played it several times.

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Damo
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.


The Recommendations Forum is for “post requests for game recommendations, information, and make game suggestions here.”

Kickstarter recommendations seem to tic the boxes.
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A bunch of them put up print and play files as a part of the campaign. I've played a Kickstarter game several times that way before deciding whether or not to back it.
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Bryan Thunkd
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lucky henry wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
But maybe the Kickstarter game is the exact blend of theme and mechanisms that matches the person’s taste.


That could well be what is promised, but you can't know until you've actually played it several times.
I can’t know that any game is a good fit for someone else regardless of how much I like it. A recommendation is simply a suggestion that you think will work for the other person.
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Mitch Harding
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And in most cases the person on the receiving end of the recommendation will understand that the game isn't released yet (or else they'll find out quickly when they try to get it), so they'll know to take any such recommendations with that in mind.
 
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This film's crap, let's slash the seats
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Damjon wrote:


The Recommendations Forum is for “post requests for game recommendations, information, and make game suggestions here.”

Kickstarter recommendations seem to tic the boxes.


The General Forum is for "General discussion about the gaming hobby" but Kickstarter hype still isn't allowed in there.
 
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Russ Williams
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.

FWIW in some cases you can be pretty confident, if it's a reprint of an existing game which you've played.
 
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Damo
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Damjon wrote:


The Recommendations Forum is for “post requests for game recommendations, information, and make game suggestions here.”

Kickstarter recommendations seem to tic the boxes.


The General Forum is for "General discussion about the gaming hobby" but Kickstarter hype still isn't allowed in there.


So? That’s a specific forum rule. No rules against Such posts in Recommendations unless otherwise stated by the Admins.

Have the Admins said thus?






 
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Thunkd wrote:
lucky henry wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
But maybe the Kickstarter game is the exact blend of theme and mechanisms that matches the person’s taste.


That could well be what is promised, but you can't know until you've actually played it several times.
I can’t know that any game is a good fit for someone else regardless of how much I like it. A recommendation is simply a suggestion that you think will work for the other person.


True, but I still couldn't honestly recommend a game I have never played because it's not even published yet.

 
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Michael Debije
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.


Man, I am so with you, but as expected, the Kickstarter devotees will be out en masse to shout you down.
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Damo
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mi_de wrote:
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.


Man, I am so with you, but as expected, the Kickstarter devotees will be out en masse to shout you down.


Bah, I’m no fan-boy, but in the interests of full-disclosure, I have kick started.

If you can’t give recommendations for a game unless you’ve played it, the forum rules should say so. Though that situation would be a tad ridiculous.
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Russ Williams
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Indeed, I don't think you have to have played a game to recommend it. E.g. (to give a pretty obvious example) if someone says they are curious about these new-fangled "legacy games", and that they enjoy coops and have enjoyed playing Pandemic, it doesn't require personal experience with Pandemic Legacy for me to say "Hey, you should probably have a look at Pandemic Legacy, it's a popular well-regarded legacy game."
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This film's crap, let's slash the seats
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Damjon wrote:


So? That’s a specific forum rule. No rules against Such posts in Recommendations unless otherwise stated by the Admins.

Have the Admins said thus?


Obviously not. Hence I'm suggesting that rule is extended. (There wouldn't be much point in making a thread about a policy already in place).
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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russ wrote:
Indeed, I don't think you have to have played a game to recommend it. E.g. (to give a pretty obvious example) if someone says they are curious about these new-fangled "legacy games", and that they enjoy coops and have enjoyed playing Pandemic, it doesn't require personal experience with Pandemic Legacy for me to say "Hey, you should probably have a look at Pandemic Legacy, it's a popular well-regarded legacy game."
Or if someone who rated Patchwork highly was looking for recommendations for other two player games, I’d suggest Cottage Garden, despite having never played it.
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Désirée Greverud
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Damjon wrote:


So? That’s a specific forum rule. No rules against Such posts in Recommendations unless otherwise stated by the Admins.

Have the Admins said thus?


Obviously not. Hence I'm suggesting that rule is extended. (There wouldn't be much point in making a thread about a policy already in place).

I assume you mean Kickstarters that are upcoming or current? I wonder why KSes in particular as opposed to "games not yet available for purchase". But then what about "out of print" games? should we ban recommending those too? "Available for immediate purchase" is not a requirement and no reason it should be.

This seems more ideological rather than a well-considered policy recommendation.
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Liam
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Just another user I have no further say in site changes:

I don't really think this is necessary. When someone does recommend a crowdfund it almost never gets any traction because it's generally not a good recommendation.

It also comes with the caveat: "There's a game coming out that sounds like it matches your requirements... I've never played it, but it could be with you at a minimum of 6 months time but probably way way longer". Um yeah thanks .

It sort of the same when folk recommend the same games regardless of what someone asks for or goes for a OOP or super rare game or seemingly ignores the recommendation request and just picks something at random. No thumbs, no +1, nothing - it just dies on the vine.

The other thing is such a recommendation needs to be careful of the Rules on promotion. Please flag direct crowdfund links or suspect repeated promotion of the same crowdfund in recommendations.

This said I'm also aware that once in a blue moon someone asks about cool zombie miniatures and someone replies X,Y or Z but also if you were interested and could wait there is this CMON crowdfunding game - link to the game's record on BGG. We as gamers do still want to talk about games, crowdfunded or not.
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Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
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Damjon wrote:
If you can’t give recommendations for a game unless you’ve played it, the forum rules should say so. Though that situation would be a tad ridiculous.
Yeah! And while we are at it, you shouldn’t rate a game unless you have played it! More than once even!!
<<ducks to avoid flung game pieces>>
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Pete
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Even if banning kickstarter games from Recommendations was preferable...

...how would you do it?

Pete (sees a giant waste of moderator time)
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Grant
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
It's not being released yet. You can't possibly know if it's any good. And you backed it anyway, so it's motivated purely by self interest.

Creating rules that are technically and practically unenforceable is not only an exercise in futility, but it undermines the other rules that are actually important. So, this doesn't really seem like a very good idea.
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Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
Indeed, I don't think you have to have played a game to recommend it. E.g. (to give a pretty obvious example) if someone says they are curious about these new-fangled "legacy games", and that they enjoy coops and have enjoyed playing Pandemic, it doesn't require personal experience with Pandemic Legacy for me to say "Hey, you should probably have a look at Pandemic Legacy, it's a popular well-regarded legacy game."
Or if someone who rated Patchwork highly was looking for recommendations for other two player games, I’d suggest Cottage Garden, despite having never played it.

And you'd be doing them a disservice.
 
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chearns wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
Indeed, I don't think you have to have played a game to recommend it. E.g. (to give a pretty obvious example) if someone says they are curious about these new-fangled "legacy games", and that they enjoy coops and have enjoyed playing Pandemic, it doesn't require personal experience with Pandemic Legacy for me to say "Hey, you should probably have a look at Pandemic Legacy, it's a popular well-regarded legacy game."
Or if someone who rated Patchwork highly was looking for recommendations for other two player games, I’d suggest Cottage Garden, despite having never played it.

And you'd be doing them a disservice.


It does say Recommendations, it doesn't say Good Recommendations.
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Pete
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Damjon wrote:
chearns wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
russ wrote:
Indeed, I don't think you have to have played a game to recommend it. E.g. (to give a pretty obvious example) if someone says they are curious about these new-fangled "legacy games", and that they enjoy coops and have enjoyed playing Pandemic, it doesn't require personal experience with Pandemic Legacy for me to say "Hey, you should probably have a look at Pandemic Legacy, it's a popular well-regarded legacy game."
Or if someone who rated Patchwork highly was looking for recommendations for other two player games, I’d suggest Cottage Garden, despite having never played it.

And you'd be doing them a disservice.


It does say Recommendations, it doesn't say Good Recommendations.
That would be a pretty quiet forum.

Pete (thinks you can probably rename that forum to "What's Your Favorite Game?")
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chearns
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plezercruz wrote:
you can probably rename that forum to "What's Your Favorite Game?"

Yes, I stopped visiting it years ago as it really attracts the most ignorant users on this site in terms of knowledge of the breadth of games that exist. And, the users who do know something are routinely ignored as they aren't merely recommending whatever is currently hot.
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