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Subject: I'm leaving this forum rss

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Damien Mitchell
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Avin wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
And how about actually giving people time to get used to Cassandra. I was trying to retract my vote one game and it help when people said, "oh he still has his vote on such and such". That's the one thing I think some of the vets here need to learn. You make it we have to be experts at coding regardless if we've played 1 game or 10 games

Hi Raven, I apologize for my part in making you feel unwelcome. It was not my intention to make fun of you at all but I realized after the fact, especially after whirling pointed it out, that it could easily seem that way.

Then don't make fun of people at all then if you want people to stay in this forum.

I'm not sure if you saw my post I made to you shortly after you were just lynched here:

Avin wrote:
whirlingdervish wrote:
Avin wrote:
LOL that Raven is still in line for a hotdog.

It's like his third serious game and everyone spent the last ten minutes yelling that he was evil, but sure, let's laugh at him for not moving?

Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you, Raven. You're not doing anything wrong for a new player. Keep asking questions and learning as you go!

I had just found the imagery amusing that there's a massive lynch mob rioting around you, but you're calmly standing there patiently waiting in line for your hotdog.

It was more of a mental image that I just thought made for a rather amusing scene.

Again. If any of you had noticed, I had tried to retract my vote but didn't know how to. And if you guys actually gave me time to post one thing before a hundred new post came in, you could have let me speak and say something
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Boonta Frederickson
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oh, I can post in here guilt-free now that the game has been called.

I thought you were good in the last game, fwiw, so you tricked at least one person

I do think that it can be tough to break into this community as a newcomer. you're kinda just thrown into the fire right away - that is softened somewhat with Hi! games and some of the other smaller games but big event games are gonna have people at each other's throats, it's just the nature of the game.

Two bits of advice, take them or leave them:

- Seriously, play in a couple smaller games first. Hi!, matrix, other little games are more relaxed, easier to keep up on, and more chill.

- You're gonna have to get used to being under suspicion and sometimes lynched, for no reason or reasons that seem dumb to you. Just the way the game works sometimes.

I hope you stick around, you clearly have some passion for the game and I'd love to play another game with you. Cheers
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:
Because

A) You guys put so many post on there and then blame me for not posting anything after you guys go through 3 pages in under a minute

B) You guys always lynch me on the first lynch regardless if I claimed a role or not.

C) You guys always suspect me in every game because you are comparing me to a previous game that acted like such and such and that it must be he bad or whatever. I try to mix it up but apparently that's must be my worst pokerface then.

Raven, I'm sorry that you have not found enjoyment in our forum. Now that the recent game is over, I wanted to address a few items.

A) Yes, we post quite a bit. With the exception of designated "low posting" games, this is not something that I forsee gaining traction for change. I recognize you feel it is a bad thing.

----

B) You have played 3 games and I've only been a part of 1 of them, so I can't address what happened in the other 2. In the Write Somebody Else's Role game, your opening post read very generically evil. You can say that I should not be able to know this without information - but I do have information - 500 games of experience playing online Werewolf.

I gave you chance to discuss your read on me and your answers further cemented my read on you.

I then MOVED my vote from you in order to relieve you from the pressure that I knew you were feeling. I did this specifically in case I was wrong and being unfair. But also to see what you would do without the pressure. Your actions further looked evil from that point to me.

So yes, I ended up voting to lynch you on D1 because you were my top evil read.

Regarding whether or not you claimed a role - claiming a role is only part of the overall decision. And in this case, you claimed a role and then somebody countered you in a more believable manner.

---

C) This is a game centered around suspecting others. And comparing people to their norms is the easiest way to determine somebody's alignment in my opinion.

I find it ironic that you are complaining about us comparing you to a previous game when your defense of your vote on me was trying to falsely compare myself to previous games.

---

You are an inexperienced player. I'm always willing to help somebody try to learn the game. I tried very hard to answer every question that you had in the game. I enjoy playing with new players and helping them learn.

I'll try to respond to some of your other points separately. I'm not trying to harass you or even say you are wrong. But I do want to offer you my point of view on some of your issues.
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:

Yeah, because all of you are vets from other forums that are now inactive. But you guys treat it as harassment. Which why I'm leaving. Learn how to treat newbies better and they'll be more likely to stay


I'm not a vet from any place else. I tried a couple of other sites and found other places to be hostile environments.

Sure, I was suspected here (and I still am) but other places would allow people to cuss you out as part of everyday behavior.

I was a newbie here and stayed because of the loving people in this community.

Obviously, if you don't feel welcomed, I'm not going to force you to stay - nor could I.

Werewolf is a very antagonistic game though. I've found myself in tears of anger and rage over some games and interactions with players. But afterwards, we talked through each others points of view (as both were completely valid) and I've created even stronger friendships with certain people as a result.
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
why does this need to be an announcement? is this an incentive to get people to change play styles? part of werewolf is that everyone gets accused of being a werewolf at some time ... I would worry if there was a player that everyone trusted no matter what each game

Yeah but if I'm one who gets accused at every first lynch, then I feel like it's harassment

Some of our more frequent players are constant d1 lynches or at least were at one time. Smugs, Amekins, Samool, Kortemaki.

I don't devalue the awful feeling it can create being ran up on D1. But it is certainly not isolated to new players.

It frequently strikes those players that have a hard time defending themselves or feeling comfortable in the flow of the game. I acknowledge that new players often fit this mold - but this is why we established the "Hi" series - to make a better entry point for new players.

I understand that you want to play with unique roles as that interests you. But I think if you are interested in playing more here, that you should try a few more Hi games first?
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:
And how about actually giving people time to get used to Cassandra. I was trying to retract my vote one game and it help when people said, "oh he still has his vote on such and such". That's the one thing I think some of the vets here need to learn. You make it we have to be experts at coding regardless if we've played 1 game or 10 games

I definitely agree that the mechanics of our system are hard to get used to.

I still mess them up sometimes and I play WAY too much.

Somebody normally helps with voting errors - but in the hectic pace that was the last 15 minutes or so of that game, nobody did. I definitely agree that we could have and should have done better there.
 
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
shawnad2006 wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
shawnad2006 wrote:
Raven, I'm sorry you've had a rough time.
I don't know all the specifics, but I feel like we should reflect on this as a community and see how we can improve to be more welcoming for newcomers.
We can be a pretty intimidating group, from my perspective at least.

How about stopping with the whole entire "reads" thing? Because that is the thing that screws people over. Let alone that it could lead to bias in a few ways.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Werewolf is a game based on giving opinions/reads of people and whether they are good or evil.

Yeah but by feeling or actual proof(like info)? Because players having a feeling that someone is good or bad promotes bias

sounds like good special hunting to me

You might not have, but there's R.A., Rahob or Rohab(forgot which one is correct) and a few others

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you are saying here about bias?

Do I have biases? Yes. We all do, it is an inherent flaw of most humans.

But I believe that I found information on you through pressuring you and seeing your responses. You might not understand how I can be so sure, but it comes from experience. And I do recognize that I can be wrong in accusations sometimes too - but that is also part of the game.
 
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Terri K
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RoyalApe wrote:
Some of our more frequent players are constant d1 lynches or at least were at one time. xand, Smugs, Amekins, Samool, Kortemaki.
fyp
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Scott Horn
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I really don't know how to respond to someone who literally walked in like Steve Buscemi - I didn't post that meme as a joke, that was literally what it felt like to me. So then I'm suspicious all day, and when that same person goes and claims my exact role, and they expect not to get lynched?

I'm certainly not apologizing for that.
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Damien Mitchell
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Then goodbye then. If I can't be treated fairly here then why should I bother playing with you guys.
 
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mfl134
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Raven1207 wrote:
Then goodbye then. If I can't be treated fairly here then why should I bother playing with you guys.

If people gave you a different standard than others because you are new, would that be "fair"?
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Damien Mitchell
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FGJustice wrote:
So then I'm suspicious all day, and when that same person goes and claims my exact role, and they expect not to get lynched?

No it's because I die so early in almost every game I've been in that it didn't seem like I had a fighting chance
 
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Raven1207 wrote:
Then goodbye then. If I can't be treated fairly here then why should I bother playing with you guys.

Hello Raven, I want to be amenable to your concerns and I've found people here surprisingly amenable too when things are brought to their attention. Sure, at times the group mores can be justifiably questioned due to certain habits, but mostly (and for sure relatively to other places) they are fairly healthy. Just playing their version of Werewolf.

I show that in your games that were fairly normal Werewolf, you lived through a whole games, were nightkilled early in one, were voted off on D2 in another (though you got heat on D1), and then in this one voted off D1. This last game has been shown to mostly been artificial with someone having extra info on you.

I'm having some difficulty knowing why you're so aggrieved at the results, with one early vote off in a legitimate game. I see maybe it's just the interactions with people during the days? I think it's possible that over time people can get to know each other better and this will be lessened. However, if you're offended at being an early vote off in a single legitimate game, it may mean that this game as a whole is not the best match for you. Not the community, but the game as a whole. Cheers.
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I was lynched D2 in my first three games, even while being the seer in one of those. I did not really enjoy those games. Lots of people were lynched often in the first few games they played, so that happening to you is not because we specifically have it out for you. Stick around and it'll get better, I'm sure of that. Or just leave the ww forum now.
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Scott Horn
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Raven1207 wrote:
FGJustice wrote:
So then I'm suspicious all day, and when that same person goes and claims my exact role, and they expect not to get lynched?

No it's because I die so early in almost every game I've been in that it didn't seem like I had a fighting chance
You don't have a fighting chance because you don't do the things required to give you a fighting chance.

Honestly, I'm trying not to go off on you because I don't want to be hypocritical. I had a lot of issues with the community here early on. I was frustrated often. I quit for two years because of it. I came back a couple months ago, and it has been better. Part of it is the community, and part of it is me changing my attitude and approach to the game. I've actually survived seven of the nine full games I've played since I came back, after starting off as a pretty easy lynch target.

So... either you put in some work, change your approach and attitude, and get better, or you throw a fit like this and quit. Your choice, and it's on YOU, not us.
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Damien Mitchell
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FGJustice wrote:
So... either you put in some work, change your approach and attitude, and get better, or you throw a fit like this and quit. Your choice, and it's on YOU, not us.

Didn't I already make that choice
 
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Scott Horn
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Raven1207 wrote:
FGJustice wrote:
So... either you put in some work, change your approach and attitude, and get better, or you throw a fit like this and quit. Your choice, and it's on YOU, not us.

Didn't I already make that choice
Stop responding then. Or delete the thread. Otherwise, you're just being an attention whore.
 
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Kevin
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Raven1207 wrote:
FGJustice wrote:
So... either you put in some work, change your approach and attitude, and get better, or you throw a fit like this and quit. Your choice, and it's on YOU, not us.

Didn't I already make that choice

By continuing to post, it has appeared to me that you DO want to remain here.

For those in our community that have tried to discuss this openly with you, I think that shows that at least some in the community care about your concerns and your feelings.

If you choose to stay, I'll continue to discuss things with you and offer my point of view on things.

If you choose to leave, I understand and I wish you the best in life.
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Kirk Monsen
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FGJustice wrote:
Raven1207 wrote:
FGJustice wrote:
So... either you put in some work, change your approach and attitude, and get better, or you throw a fit like this and quit. Your choice, and it's on YOU, not us.

Didn't I already make that choice
Stop responding then. Or delete the thread. Otherwise, you're just being an attention whore.

Don't delete the thread .. this is not facebook .. that doesn't work here ... it only deletes the original post making the rest of the thread confusing.
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Raven, I'm not sure you've really answered the question about what fair treatment is. The game of Werewolf is about trying to find players who are werewolves and killing them. Sometimes people are right and sometimes people are wrong. What do you think treating you fairly in these games should look like?
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I think this is strange. What's so bad about being voted off D1? It gives you time to step back and reflect on the game a bit and then you can join another one if you really want to keep playing. It allows you to play in more games with a smaller time commitment. I've come to consider an early death in a game to be a gift.
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Smugs wrote:
Raven, I'm not sure you've really answered the question about what fair treatment is. The game of Werewolf is about trying to find players who are werewolves and killing them. Sometimes people are right and sometimes people are wrong. What do you think treating you fairly in these games should look like?

The part I don't understand is that in both games where Raven was lynched early, he was evil.
I'm not sure what the solution would be to this if this is the problem
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Scott Horn
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Vanderscamp wrote:
Smugs wrote:
Raven, I'm not sure you've really answered the question about what fair treatment is. The game of Werewolf is about trying to find players who are werewolves and killing them. Sometimes people are right and sometimes people are wrong. What do you think treating you fairly in these games should look like?

The part I don't understand is that in both games where Raven was lynched early, he was evil.
I'm not sure what the solution would be to this if this is the problem
The solution is obviously practice, which he refuses to do because he's leaving instead, so [shrug emoji that apparently doesn't exist here].
 
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