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Subject: What to do as Vagabond if nobody is crafting? rss

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Lord Loki
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I find myself always picking the Tinker because people are always afraid to craft when the Vagabond is in the game.

It's also helpful having three hammers and being able to play favor cards, and also dig out ambush cards later in the game.

That said, do people have much success playing as say the Ranger or Arbiter? What do you do if people refuse to craft items?
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MCLondon wrote:
I find myself always picking the Tinker because people are always afraid to craft when the Vagabond is in the game.

It's also helpful having three hammers and being able to play favor cards, and also dig out ambush cards later in the game.

That said, do people have much success playing as say the Ranger or Arbiter? What do you do if people refuse to craft items?


Threaten to hit people unless they craft for you? Individually, crafting is good for them since they get VP and a card back, and the vagabond is more likely to help them out to keep them crafting. All you need is one defector and you'll be alright.
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Michael Ptak
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MCLondon wrote:
I find myself always picking the Tinker because people are always afraid to craft when the Vagabond is in the game.

It's also helpful having three hammers and being able to play favor cards, and also dig out ambush cards later in the game.

That said, do people have much success playing as say the Ranger or Arbiter? What do you do if people refuse to craft items?


You aren't doing well enough by pursuing your quest cards?

I find that's how Vagabonds win more often than not. Excavate the ruins, go on quests, win because hardly anyone wants to take the effort to attack you.
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Ben Turner
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Yep, if they are giving up the VPs they'll get from crafting, you should have a great time running up your quests.

And you can still get extra VPs from aiding other factions (don't need to wait for an item in return; giving away 1 card for 1VP is still a great exchange!)

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Lord Loki
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Norsehound wrote:
MCLondon wrote:
I find myself always picking the Tinker because people are always afraid to craft when the Vagabond is in the game.

It's also helpful having three hammers and being able to play favor cards, and also dig out ambush cards later in the game.

That said, do people have much success playing as say the Ranger or Arbiter? What do you do if people refuse to craft items?


You aren't doing well enough by pursuing your quest cards?

I find that's how Vagabonds win more often than not. Excavate the ruins, go on quests, win because hardly anyone wants to take the effort to attack you.


You need items to do quests. If you have no items you can't really rack up quests
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Ren
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Tinkerer is imho the strongest Vagabond because of the starting hammer. But if the others aren't crafting, you still have a couple of viable strategies.

Explore Ruins, search for Hammer, craft items yourself.

Give people cards for points, even if no crafted items are available. Good especially if you have the Thief -- steal a card then give it back! A faction that's struggling for cards might even start crafting to get you to aid them instead of another.

Make deals! Threaten to attack them if they won't craft. Offer the Eyrie a card of the suit they need for their decree.
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Doug DeMoss
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Ren3 wrote:
Tinkerer is imho the strongest Vagabond because of the starting hammer.


That'll depend on your group. Nobody will take the Tinkerer in my group, because we KNOW he'll be hammered mercilessly while he can't strike back.
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Lord Loki
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Ren3 wrote:
Tinkerer is imho the strongest Vagabond because of the starting hammer. But if the others aren't crafting, you still have a couple of viable strategies.

Explore Ruins, search for Hammer, craft items yourself.

Give people cards for points, even if no crafted items are available. Good especially if you have the Thief -- steal a card then give it back! A faction that's struggling for cards might even start crafting to get you to aid them instead of another.

Make deals! Threaten to attack them if they won't craft. Offer the Eyrie a card of the suit they need for their decree.


In all honesty I don't think people have enough incentive to craft items. They're often better off crafting effects or using the cards for other things. Bringing the vagabond into the mix just incentivises them to craft even less.
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William Minsinger
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Quote:
In all honesty I don't think people have enough incentive to craft items. They're often better off crafting effects or using the cards for other things. Bringing the vagabond into the mix just incentivises them to craft even less.


I don't know about that; I've seen several games clinched with a couple of VP from crafting; the +3 VP cards end the game a turn early.

-Will
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J. "Ponder" Rummy
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MCLondon wrote:
Ren3 wrote:
Tinkerer is imho the strongest Vagabond because of the starting hammer. But if the others aren't crafting, you still have a couple of viable strategies.

Explore Ruins, search for Hammer, craft items yourself.

Give people cards for points, even if no crafted items are available. Good especially if you have the Thief -- steal a card then give it back! A faction that's struggling for cards might even start crafting to get you to aid them instead of another.

Make deals! Threaten to attack them if they won't craft. Offer the Eyrie a card of the suit they need for their decree.
In all honesty I don't think people have enough incentive to craft items. They're often better off crafting effects or using the cards for other things. Bringing the vagabond into the mix just incentivises them to craft even less.

take a lesson from the Cave in Vast: support the weak against the strong. sometimes you'll want a stronger vagabond just because the players who were starving him may feel compelled to deal with him (and thereby spend less actions dealing with you). it can be a fine line, these forest politics.
 
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In my second game of Root, I played Woodland Alliance and was hemmed in by the Marquise and Eyrie (Cat would periodically attack my sympathy, and Bird just avoided my sympathetic clearings and stacked three warriors to block my expansion). I turned to the Ranger-Vagabond and crafted whenever I had a card that wasn't useful for spreading sympathy or creating a base. That gave me VPs and incentivized the Vagabond to help me.

Of course, that also led to a Vagabond with a lot of items and high scoring potential! The cat and bird players were warned that WA and Vagabond both had explosive VP growth, but they still overlooked the "drunk hobo". Despite starting as Ranger, he spent the early game questing and exploring ruins (the player did decry his lack of a hammer!) and only went on the offense toward the end game, scoring points by killing cats. He ended his turn at 29 points and was only prevented from winning because there were no more swords left for him to craft.

WA ended up winning the game, but it was a close match, with Vagabond, Cat, and WA all within a single turn of victory.
 
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Lord Loki
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wminsing wrote:
Quote:
In all honesty I don't think people have enough incentive to craft items. They're often better off crafting effects or using the cards for other things. Bringing the vagabond into the mix just incentivises them to craft even less.


I don't know about that; I've seen several games clinched with a couple of VP from crafting; the +3 VP cards end the game a turn early.

-Will


Sorry I was referring to crafting items in the early game. Late game it's not really an issue as the vagabond won't get much/any use from these items.
 
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Game Guy
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From my experience playing both as and against the Vagabond, having the other players refuse to craft basically reduces him to an average faction. The items from the Ruins will inevitably include at least one sword or hammer. So even without helpful crafting by others he will be able to either fight or craft if not both. From there, the combination of points for giving cards and points from finishing quests make a tenable strategy. When the other players lose their minds and make a bunch of craft items early, the Vagabond is pretty overpowering.

One tactic I had some success with was showing the Eyrie that I had bird cards to give. I then handed him a craft card to score a diplomatic point, then made a real diplomatic point by telling him I would give him a bird for his tableau but only when buying the crafted item. The Eyrie is susceptible to this sort of bribery because wildcards are so much more important to him then any other faction. Having more than four or five orders which must be executed sequentially each in a specific clearing type is incredibly hard to keep up for more than a turn or two. The next most likely taker for bird card bribes is the Marquise.
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Lord Loki
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TerrapinStation wrote:
From my experience playing both as and against the Vagabond, having the other players refuse to craft basically reduces him to an average faction. The items from the Ruins will inevitably include at least one sword or hammer. So even without helpful crafting by others he will be able to either fight or craft if not both. From there, the combination of points for giving cards and points from finishing quests make a tenable strategy. When the other players lose their minds and make a bunch of craft items early, the Vagabond is pretty overpowering.

One tactic I had some success with was showing the Eyrie that I had bird cards to give. I then handed him a craft card to score a diplomatic point, then made a real diplomatic point by telling him I would give him a bird for his tableau but only when buying the crafted item. The Eyrie is susceptible to this sort of bribery because wildcards are so much more important to him then any other faction. Having more than four or five orders which must be executed sequentially each in a specific clearing type is incredibly hard to keep up for more than a turn or two. The next most likely taker for bird card bribes is the Marquise.


On the other, the birds hate crafting (only 1 vp) and the cats are terrible crafters (need workshops at the expense of saw mills and recruiters).

I think the strongest crafters are probably WA and River Folk company
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Marcus Kielly
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I think this is partly down to the meta on the table. There's room for negotiation and deal-making in this game. As the Vagabond you have to give increasing numbers of cards away in order to get the items - all the other players would appreciate getting a three card buff as much as you would like to get an additional item. A canny player might even go after specific items the Vagabond wants in order to draw that co-operation.
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Byron S
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sunwukung wrote:
I think this is partly down to the meta on the table. There's room for negotiation and deal-making in this game. As the Vagabond you have to give increasing numbers of cards away in order to get the items - all the other players would appreciate getting a three card buff as much as you would like to get an additional item. A canny player might even go after specific items the Vagabond wants in order to draw that co-operation.

The Vagabond only ever needs to Aid with one card to get an item from another player. They only need to Aid multiple times with multiple cards to increase their standing on the Relationship track.
 
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Geoff C
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I think Marcus' point was that players may hold back valuable items until they are up in the 3 card range.

I would hold them right up until the endgame frankly.
 
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Byron S
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Talonz wrote:
I think Marcus' point was that players may hold back valuable items until they are up in the 3 card range.

I would hold them right up until the endgame frankly.

There's no such thing as 'the 3 card range.' One Aid with one card gets one item, always.
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Doug DeMoss
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...but it doesn't always get VP. Thus, the "three card range."
 
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Geoff C
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runtsta wrote:
Talonz wrote:
I think Marcus' point was that players may hold back valuable items until they are up in the 3 card range.

I would hold them right up until the endgame frankly.

There's no such thing as 'the 3 card range.' One Aid with one card gets one item, always.


If there is an item crafted....our point is that players may withhold crafting certain items until a substantial aid effort has been made, either as part of a negotiation or not. What that range is for players may vary.
 
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Andy Jarvis
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My daughter played vagabond today. She won by doing Quests. And once you start getting quests of the same animal type the VPs accumulate, it was close but she won with this strategy
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Mendon Dornbrook
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Agree that quests and hostility are the obvious alternative. Especially vulnerable are Woodland Alliance and Marquis de Cat that tend to have to leave their buildings and resources weakly defended to achieve their objectives.
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