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Subject: 11er and Betterer 4: I wanna get better (SWF) rss

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Boonta Frederickson
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Farren wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Farren, I have no idea how to read you this game. You still spooked me earlier, I think I was okay with your explanation though. Pointing out that both Seer claims sucked is something, I don't know if it's good or bad.

Why are you good?

I'm frustrated and tearing my hair out trying to figure out which world we're in, and the competing claims has not shed any light on anything.

I think Vanders has the honest claim here.

[vote oldhoss]

you voting here gives me the heebie-jeebies
 
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Farren Bronaugh
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And I sure as hell don't kill cvb. That's the Ape/Noob clear world, and for all I know there's a living Priest that can confirm that world.
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Boonta Frederickson
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Farren wrote:
And I sure as hell don't kill cvb. That's the Ape/Noob clear world, and for all I know there's a living Priest that can confirm that world.

It can be you and violin too with sorc-hoss/VC, or you and hoss/VC with sorc-violin. I'm not super-attached to the Felice-Farren world.
 
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Boonta Frederickson
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Gun to your head, who do you think it is, Farren?
 
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Farren Bronaugh
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FATNOOB wrote:
Gun to your head, who do you think it is, Farren?

Besides oldhoss?

I'd flip a coin between you and Samool. If the gun's loaded and I had to decide now ... you.
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FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
NOOB, what are your thoughts on everyone here?

I just gave them while you and hoss were bickering like an old married couple:

FATNOOB wrote:
Ape makes me a bit nervous right now, because

a) He is pretty clearly pushing the violin-good, felice-wolf world where he is conveniently a clear

b) I thought Samool could have been NKed D1 for softing Seer w/ Ape clear. I buy the "Majai was killed for acting nervous/GS-y" argument, but that kill is a lot easier to make if you know Samool isn't actually the Seer.

Talk to me, ape. Why you good?

FATNOOB wrote:
I still feel pretty good about Samool on a reread. Softing Seer straight out the bat, he had solid responses to some D2 questions, and that weird prescient "I bet Felice is brutal" post is pretty ballsy if Felice is his co-wolf.

FATNOOB wrote:
Farren, I have no idea how to read you this game. You still spooked me earlier, I think I was okay with your explanation though. Pointing out that both Seer claims sucked is something, I don't know if it's good or bad.

Why are you good?

TLDR: I don't want to lynch Samool, have no idea on Farren, and feel worse about Ape than I did before.

Why is the fact that Royal is a clear in the world he's pushing a point against him?
Evils are going to be incentivised to push worlds where they look good obviously, but why is it inconsistent with goodRoyal believing in the seerViolin world where he happens to be a clear?

If you had to give a team of two, what would it be?

I don't think it's inconsistent with good-Royal strongly believing the seer-Violin world. It's more that he is barely considering Felice being the real seer, and I think good-Royal would at least put some consideration into that world (because it's def possible imo). And the world he's believing in is very convenient for him if he's evil.

It could also be normal Royal paranoia because I thought he was pretty solid good earlier.

Why do you think he's good?

GTMH I say Felice and Farren wolves, with hoss sorc. Willing to bet I'm wrong on one of Felice/violin and you/hoss.

I don't have a problem with his evaluation of Felice or violin, I think he was making good points. Even if Felice was real, she was making pretty objectively weird stances on the game and her reads and it still wouldn't make Royal necessarily evil.
Like, if Royal had not commented or pushed against her D1 read progression of him, I would read that as an evil tell. Similar logic with him questioning her about her stance that I was bussing violin, if he were evil, especially with violin, and saw reads like that, I think he'd be a lot less likely to push back on it.

I don't think Royal has sounded evil at all this game basically, I've agreed with a large amount of his analysis.
I initially read him as good because I think when he gives strong (by early D1 standards) evil reads on me, he's more likely to be good. I see him do it as good a medium amount early on, usually correctly re-evaluating on me if I am good, but pretty rarely if he's evil. He will go after me hard when he's evil sometimes but this is usually in situations where he's heavily incentivized to do so, an obvious example being when I'm pushing hard against him mid or late game. I don't think he likes to go out of his way to make an enemy of me if he doesn't need to.
Mostly though I've liked what he's said, and I think I read him pretty accurately. I don't think I read a lot of people this game accurately, particularly the alive people, but I feel more comfortable in my Royal read than on my Farren read for example
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Samool wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
NOOB, what are your thoughts on everyone here?

I just gave them while you and hoss were bickering like an old married couple:

FATNOOB wrote:
Ape makes me a bit nervous right now, because

a) He is pretty clearly pushing the violin-good, felice-wolf world where he is conveniently a clear

b) I thought Samool could have been NKed D1 for softing Seer w/ Ape clear. I buy the "Majai was killed for acting nervous/GS-y" argument, but that kill is a lot easier to make if you know Samool isn't actually the Seer.

Talk to me, ape. Why you good?

FATNOOB wrote:
I still feel pretty good about Samool on a reread. Softing Seer straight out the bat, he had solid responses to some D2 questions, and that weird prescient "I bet Felice is brutal" post is pretty ballsy if Felice is his co-wolf.

FATNOOB wrote:
Farren, I have no idea how to read you this game. You still spooked me earlier, I think I was okay with your explanation though. Pointing out that both Seer claims sucked is something, I don't know if it's good or bad.

Why are you good?

TLDR: I don't want to lynch Samool, have no idea on Farren, and feel worse about Ape than I did before.

Why is the fact that Royal is a clear in the world he's pushing a point against him?
Evils are going to be incentivised to push worlds where they look good obviously, but why is it inconsistent with goodRoyal believing in the seerViolin world where he happens to be a clear?

If you had to give a team of two, what would it be?

I don't think it's inconsistent with good-Royal strongly believing the seer-Violin world. It's more that he is barely considering Felice being the real seer, and I think good-Royal would at least put some consideration into that world (because it's def possible imo). And the world he's believing in is very convenient for him if he's evil.

It could also be normal Royal paranoia because I thought he was pretty solid good earlier.

Why do you think he's good?

GTMH I say Felice and Farren wolves, with hoss sorc. Willing to bet I'm wrong on one of Felice/violin and you/hoss.

Why was Felice trying to get the priest to view her?
It could be read as two ways, felice taking the lynch as the actual seer and hoping that the priest will solve the battle, or brutal wolf felice taking the lynch knowing that this is her chance to take out the seer without having to worry about the guard.
I think if Felice had not been brutal actually, I would find her EOD play much less consistent for her to be evil
 
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Farren wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
GTMH I say Felice and Farren wolves, with hoss sorc. Willing to bet I'm wrong on one of Felice/violin and you/hoss.

Yeah, uh, no. I don't keep my vote on Felice for any length of time after her Seer claim - I switch to violin on the spot.

I'm also going to say I don't bus her at all. I know y'all won't believe that given my past history, but it's true regardless.

Why would you not bus her at all?
 
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Farren Bronaugh
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Vanderscamp wrote:
Farren wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
GTMH I say Felice and Farren wolves, with hoss sorc. Willing to bet I'm wrong on one of Felice/violin and you/hoss.

Yeah, uh, no. I don't keep my vote on Felice for any length of time after her Seer claim - I switch to violin on the spot.

I'm also going to say I don't bus her at all. I know y'all won't believe that given my past history, but it's true regardless.

Why would you not bus her at all?

Couple of reasons.

1) After No Reveal XI, I wouldn't want to try the same trick twice.
2) After Rainbow Werewolf 11, being thrown under the bus is annoying.
 
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FATNOOB wrote:
Samool wrote:
Why was Felice trying to get the priest to view her?

I think she knew priest would be viewing there anyways. If she's brutal wolf, a view on her is less useful than a view on violin, because Felice can't be sorc but violin can.

I mean, which seer claim the priest views doesn't matter a ton unless we believe in the world where both seers are evil, which doesn't really make any sense.
I think it's still technically possible?
But it's both incredibly unlikely and stupid
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FATNOOB wrote:
Ape makes me a bit nervous right now, because

a) He is pretty clearly pushing the violin-good, felice-wolf world where he is conveniently a clear

b) I thought Samool could have been NKed D1 for softing Seer w/ Ape clear. I buy the "Majai was killed for acting nervous/GS-y" argument, but that kill is a lot easier to make if you know Samool isn't actually the Seer.

Talk to me, ape. Why you good?

How am I pushing A when I'm also clearly stating that we should play as if neither are confirmed and that puts us both in the pool?

In this set, if I'm a wolf, I kill Samool d1, I either promote him or SHC myself. Pretty easy pickings really.
 
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oldhoss wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
I really want to just vote oldhoss today

Village has to consider that one of us is might promote tonight. If we mislynch today and one of us promotes, we will be at 2 Wolves and 2 Good. Hunter parity is necessary then.

If we mislynch today and one of you promotes, we are at 3 vs 2 tomorrow.

And if Felice is real, one of you is brutal.
 
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oldhoss wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
I no longer really care about you anymore Farren tbh, I just want to get oldhoss lynched today.

No. A mislynch into the HG claims is game over for Good.

this is true ONLY if Felice is real. If Felice was wolf, a mislynched HG brutals the other as they are guaranteed brutal.
 
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FATNOOB wrote:
Farren, I have no idea how to read you this game. You still spooked me earlier, I think I was okay with your explanation though. Pointing out that both Seer claims sucked is something, I don't know if it's good or bad.

Why are you good?

This is the second time you've asked somebody to say why they are good today. While I hate the question in general - why are YOU good?
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
oldhoss wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
I really want to just vote oldhoss today

Village has to consider that one of us is might promote tonight. If we mislynch today and one of us promotes, we will be at 2 Wolves and 2 Good. Hunter parity is necessary then.

If we mislynch today and one of you promotes, we are at 3 vs 2 tomorrow.

And if Felice is real, one of you is brutal.

If Felice is fake you mean?
 
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Kevin
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FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
FATNOOB wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
NOOB, what are your thoughts on everyone here?

I just gave them while you and hoss were bickering like an old married couple:

FATNOOB wrote:
Ape makes me a bit nervous right now, because

a) He is pretty clearly pushing the violin-good, felice-wolf world where he is conveniently a clear

b) I thought Samool could have been NKed D1 for softing Seer w/ Ape clear. I buy the "Majai was killed for acting nervous/GS-y" argument, but that kill is a lot easier to make if you know Samool isn't actually the Seer.

Talk to me, ape. Why you good?

FATNOOB wrote:
I still feel pretty good about Samool on a reread. Softing Seer straight out the bat, he had solid responses to some D2 questions, and that weird prescient "I bet Felice is brutal" post is pretty ballsy if Felice is his co-wolf.

FATNOOB wrote:
Farren, I have no idea how to read you this game. You still spooked me earlier, I think I was okay with your explanation though. Pointing out that both Seer claims sucked is something, I don't know if it's good or bad.

Why are you good?

TLDR: I don't want to lynch Samool, have no idea on Farren, and feel worse about Ape than I did before.

Why is the fact that Royal is a clear in the world he's pushing a point against him?
Evils are going to be incentivised to push worlds where they look good obviously, but why is it inconsistent with goodRoyal believing in the seerViolin world where he happens to be a clear?

If you had to give a team of two, what would it be?

I don't think it's inconsistent with good-Royal strongly believing the seer-Violin world. It's more that he is barely considering Felice being the real seer, and I think good-Royal would at least put some consideration into that world (because it's def possible imo). And the world he's believing in is very convenient for him if he's evil.

It could also be normal Royal paranoia because I thought he was pretty solid good earlier.

Why do you think he's good?

GTMH I say Felice and Farren wolves, with hoss sorc. Willing to bet I'm wrong on one of Felice/violin and you/hoss.

I would like to know where you are gathering anything about me not considering felice as possibly real? I even asked her for reads before she went out.
 
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Farren wrote:
And I sure as hell don't kill cvb. That's the Ape/Noob clear world, and for all I know there's a living Priest that can confirm that world.

This is a very real thing that nobody has mentioned until now. Why kill cvb if violin is real with a potential priest to be able to confirm 2 living clears at that point?
 
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Vanderscamp wrote:
(long royal analysis post)

Scared of being pocketed but damn that felt genuine.

[vote hoss]
 
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VOTE TALLY

Player (6/11) - # - Voted by

oldhoss - 4 - FATNOOB(2), Vanderscamp(6), Farren(7), RoyalApe(8)
Farren - 1 - Samool(3), Vanderscamp(4)
Vanderscamp - 1 - oldhoss(5)
Samool - 0 - RoyalApe(1)

Not Voting: N/A


Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 2:00 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 2:30 PM BGG

---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

Farren - 1 - oldhoss(7)
FATNOOB - 1 - oldhoss(2)
oldhoss - 1 - Vanderscamp(5)
RoyalApe - 2 - Samool(1), oldhoss(8)
Samool - 1 - Farren(3)
Vanderscamp - 2 - Farren(4), oldhoss(6)

Not Voting: N/A
 
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Vanderscamp wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
oldhoss wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
I really want to just vote oldhoss today

Village has to consider that one of us is might promote tonight. If we mislynch today and one of us promotes, we will be at 2 Wolves and 2 Good. Hunter parity is necessary then.

If we mislynch today and one of you promotes, we are at 3 vs 2 tomorrow.

And if Felice is real, one of you is brutal.

If Felice is fake you mean?

Ya.
 
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[unvote farren]
 
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and that's probably it for me today.
 
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Sorc - violin
Brutal wolf - Oldhoss (small mabye vanders)
Normal wolf - Noob

[vote noob]
 
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VOTE TALLY

Player (6/11) - # - Voted by

oldhoss - 4 - FATNOOB(2), Vanderscamp(6), Farren(7), RoyalApe(8)
Vanderscamp - 1 - oldhoss(5)
FATNOOB - 1 - Samool(9)
Farren - 0 - Samool(3), Vanderscamp(4)
Samool - 0 - RoyalApe(1)

Not Voting: N/A


Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 2:00 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 2:30 PM BGG

---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

Farren - 1 - oldhoss(7)
FATNOOB - 1 - oldhoss(2)
oldhoss - 1 - Vanderscamp(5)
RoyalApe - 2 - Samool(1), oldhoss(8)
Samool - 2 - Farren(3), FATNOOB(9)
Vanderscamp - 2 - Farren(4), oldhoss(6)

Not Voting: N/A
 
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[vote royal]

If you think I'm the wolf, vote me. There's probably not much I can do to convince you otherwise.

I think NOOB was a Good cleared by violin whether she was Seer, Sorc or Wolf. I just don't think she parks a vote on an evil there and never comes back to it.

Out of Samool, Royal and Farren. I like Samool the best and don't have strong feelings about Farren. I do like his vote on Violin at the end of the day and his statement that he doesn't care that he was going against the flow. That seemed Good. So leaning good there, but again not strong.

Royal BWW/Vanders Sorc makes the most sense to me.

Of course, if Felice was BWW, then I'm completely flummoxed.
 
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