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Subject: Stealing from Booths rss

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Michelle Ridge
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Just saw this:



This is my first Spiel and I’m shocked that this seriously happens every year? I just don’t understand why. People buy tickets to attend. It’s a con about playing games, connecting and buying. At the end of the day you’re paying for someone’s dedication, time, and passion. And at the end of the day anyone living in the modern era needs to pay bills. Money to pay them doesn’t just magically appear.

This type of thing doesn’t support gaming in any sense. So... why? And is it possibly staff of the convention center doing it?
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Julien K
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Unfortunately, there is surely about as much people stealing money in board gaming as there is in the general population. In a large crowd such as the Essen Spiel fair, I'd guess that's not few.

Not to mention, this could be the work of people who have no interest in boardgaming, but only know that there is lots of money flowing around and too many people to notice one stealing money.

Be careful with your money/credit card/... in the Essen crowd, people.
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Eric Brosius
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And I'm told that most vendors don't take anything but cash, which heightens the exposure.
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James C
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jujulautre wrote:
Unfortunately, there is surely about as much people stealing money in board gaming as there is in the general population. In a large crowd such as the Essen Spiel fair, I'd guess that's not few.

Not to mention, this could be the work of people who have no interest in boardgaming, but only know that there is lots of money flowing around and too many people to notice one stealing money.

Be careful with your money/credit card/... in the Essen crowd, people.

Spot on. Stealing happens everywhere.
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Ole Enes Ebbesen
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feaien wrote:
And is it possibly staff of the convention center doing it?
Why on earth would you throw out suspicion like that with absolutely no evidence to back it up?
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Ole Enes Ebbesen
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jujulautre wrote:
Unfortunately, there is surely about as much people stealing money in board gaming as there is in the general population.In a large crowd such as the Essen Spiel fair, I'd guess that's not few.
I am guessing it IS a few. since there about 150 000 visitors to the Spiel, and very few (albeit some every year) reports of stealing.

After all, most people in the general population (including gamers) does not steal money.
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Kasper Kristoffersen
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Eric Brosius wrote:
And I'm told that most vendors don't take anything but cash, which heightens the exposure.

Yeah, it baffles me that hardly anyone takes credit cards. It feels like being back in the 90s.
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J J
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LIIT wrote:
Eric Brosius wrote:
And I'm told that most vendors don't take anything but cash, which heightens the exposure.

Yeah, it baffles me that hardly anyone takes credit cards. It feels like being back in the 90s.

Well, when my local game seller does it from a marquee at the local farmer's market with a device that fits entirely in the palm of the hand and his phone, I have to wonder just what it is that leads people to choose not to do this.
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
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LIIT wrote:
Yeah, it baffles me that hardly anyone takes credit cards. It feels like being back in the 90s.
The need to use cash is my biggest annoyance when going to Essen, I mean the whole southern Germany. (In Scandinavia it almost seems suspicious to use cash instead of chip-card, app or contact-less solutions unless you are a tourist or homeless.)

Here in Noway, the smart-phone payment app Vipps is so ubiquitous that even kids selling cake lottery tickets use it. And even the smallest shop usually has a credit card reader - if nothing else, an iZettle device connected to a tablet with a POS app on.
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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feaien wrote:
Just saw this:



This is my first Spiel and I’m shocked that this seriously happens every year? I just don’t understand why. People buy tickets to attend. It’s a con about playing games, connecting and buying. At the end of the day you’re paying for someone’s dedication, time, and passion. And at the end of the day anyone living in the modern era needs to pay bills. Money to pay them doesn’t just magically appear.

This type of thing doesn’t support gaming in any sense. So... why? And is it possibly staff of the convention center doing it?

I'm honestly surprised you're surprised.
It's just... Human nature.
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Leslie King
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JadedGamer wrote:
LIIT wrote:
Yeah, it baffles me that hardly anyone takes credit cards. It feels like being back in the 90s.
The need to use cash is my biggest annoyance when going to Essen, I mean the whole southern Germany. (In Scandinavia it almost seems suspicious to use cash instead of chip-card, app or contact-less solutions unless you are a tourist or homeless.)

Here in Noway, the smart-phone payment app Vipps is so ubiquitous that even kids selling cake lottery tickets use it. And even the smallest shop usually has a credit card reader - if nothing else, an iZettle device connected to a tablet with a POS app on.

I can see why they do it though, especially smaller companies. Every card reader has to be leased, for every transaction the bank or card company takes a not insignificant percentage. It all adds up and taking everything into account can easily add 20% or more to costs. For smaller companies especially this can easily wipe out any profits made from attending.
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Olaf Slomp
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20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.
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Mr Stonemountain
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I wouldn't be surprised if some pickpockets just buy a ticket for 13€ and are wandering around the halls to pick some purses from careless visitors and even a cash register if opportunity rises.
There is so much cash floating around on these 4 days...

It sucks, but it's a risk we take everytime were visiting a crowded public place.
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Chris in Kansai
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Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.


Accepting cash is free.
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Chrysm wrote:
Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.


Accepting cash is free.

It cost Hub games 3000 euros!
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Richard Dewsbery
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This did not happen 5+ years ago. I think that the first time I was aware of it was 2 years ago, when three vendors' cash boxes were stolen in quite quick succession. There were more thefts last year, and its disappointing (but perhaps not surprising) that it's happened again this year.

Remarkably there appears to be very little "pilferage" of stock from the stalls - although a few retailers have clearly upped their vigilance (and added some anti-theft measures) over recent years.

I also know someone who lost his wallet & passport at the show; he thinks he just dropped them, but TBH I would think that a pickpocket is more likely.

I suspect that the cash box thefts are the work of just a small number of people who have realised that Essen is a "target rich environment" - lots of cash, lots of bustle.
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Richard Dewsbery
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Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.

But you will also need both electricity and a wifi connection at your booth - both of which are charged for by the Messe. And it will slow down sales; if you've got 50 people queuing up, eager to pay you cash, you don't want to make them wait in line while you muck about with electronics, that inexplicably don't work because the wifi has stopped working.

Problems that I suspect will be solved by the fair and by society over the next 5+ years, of course.
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Michelle Ridge
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Ebbe wrote:
feaien wrote:
And is it possibly staff of the convention center doing it?
Why on earth would you throw out suspicion like that with absolutely no evidence to back it up?

The way Hub describes it, they took all the necessary precautions from noticing past incidents. I mean, I’ve even had things taken out of safes in nice hotels I’ve stayed at, which seems to suggest that staff can be suspected of foul play in settings where money or valuables are around. Not considering that as a potential culprit and not taking precautionary measures against it increases vulnerability to such things.
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Eric Overkamp
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Let me be the first person to say I'm sorry to hear that money was stolen. It's extremely troubling and upsetting for those who lose money to this kind of theft. Be extra vigilant!
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James Clarke
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feaien wrote:
And is it possibly staff of the convention center doing it?
It was the Butler.
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Michelle Ridge
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Also:
Suspicion definition: the act or an instance of suspecting something wrong without proof or on slight evidence

So there’s that.

But I’m not here to lawyer through “who” and mostly I’m just shocked at “why”. Didn’t even consider that people would buy a ticket just to take advantage of the bustling crowd.
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J J
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RDewsbery wrote:
Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.

But you will also need both electricity and a wifi connection at your booth - both of which are charged for by the Messe. And it will slow down sales; if you've got 50 people queuing up, eager to pay you cash, you don't want to make them wait in line while you muck about with electronics, that inexplicably don't work because the wifi has stopped working.

Problems that I suspect will be solved by the fair and by society over the next 5+ years, of course.

See my post above - it already has been solved.
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James Parker
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Chrysm wrote:
Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.


Accepting cash is free.

Until you want to bank it then you have the charges for doing so which won't be much short of what you would pay to take a credit card.

At the moment if you would have a low transaction volume and so want to avoid fixed costs then I would look at the more modern phone or tablet linked options with costs as low as 1.69% with an initial £19 purchase for the hardware:
https://www.mobiletransaction.org/square-vs-izettle-vs-sumup...

If your transaction volume is higher then a conventional mobile card machine might be a better option with monthly rental of ~£30 and transaction costs <1% depending on your buying power.
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Torn
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Chrysm wrote:
Olafslomp wrote:
20% cost increase ???

Not sure about Germany, but in the Netherlands you can rent a pinmachine for 19 EUR a day, and transactions cost between 0,07 and 0,20 cents. Germany is probably similar.


Accepting cash is free.

Exactly. I do not like the concept of paying for my payment. Why would I want some bank to make profit on a deal between you and me? In the end I as a customer have to pay that fee by paying the higher price. Although I do not like to have my bank account going through everyone’s fingers. That opens up a ton of ways for fraud, once those banking tools are properly hacked. Why should I trust my bank account to any foreigner I meet? Why would I want a record of anything I pay somewhere out in the network? Especially since I work for bank IT I would never trust their security. People make mistakes. Data gets robbed.

And finally I just like cash, especially when paying for a service. It is more like paying respect for a service well done, but maybe that is just me being romantic. Some places will not be the same when cash is replaced by card payment. I like vinyl. I like photographic film. I am a dying breed, I know.

And on topic: I despise stealing.
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Michi Hostettler
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I was also kind of surprised when I learned that many sellers accepted nothing but cash. I actually learned it the hard way, as I had to search for a working (!) ATM for like two hours. I'm not used to walk around with more than a few CHF and EUR in coins ... Paying by card is not only more convenient but also much faster with the right (contactless) terminals.

I'm not surprised by this happening. Unfortunately. Yet the solution could be so simple...

While it may be true that the merchant pays a 1-2% fee, they get guaranteed payments without the hassle (and risk) of handling cash.
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