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Subject: barrage vs kickstarter rss

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Cory Yates
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Yeah I'm dropping my pledge now. Simply put, there just isn't enough value for the $ at all. Most of the stretch goals should already be included. Custom shapes and metal coins should be a given considering the $112 plus shipping price tag. They're trying to use the excuse metal coins cost a lot to manufacture, but ignoring what they are charging in the first place. This KS is a rip off imo, at least at the top end. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the price.
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Originally the top pledge cost €120 haha.
 
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Bernhard W
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yatescory wrote:
Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the price.

I think the KS price for the base game + expansion is what you'll pay later on from online stores as well (excl. shipping).

The higher MSRP is IMO due to them using 3mm cardboard stock instead of the standard 2mm. That adds production costs, it needs bigger boxes to fit it all which means higher shipping and warehouse rates.

The 3D map is a thing of it's own. My main concern is that it's not proven to work as they hope. If it holds up over months of playtesting, fine. Thing is, they don't have that time if they want to deliver the game in April... Not delivering in April means angry backers who weren't allowed to do group-pledges. I highly doubt they won't sell the game at Spiel if delays push the "6 months exclusive play" until after that.
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Bernhard W
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
bankzzzgtr wrote:
the main reason I'm considering to drop the pledge is that solo mode is way too far to be reached.

...


Also if the solo mode is important to you I recommend you go to these links and share.

http://www.facebook.com/CranioCreations/photos/a.58800993787...

http://twitter.com/CranioCreations/status/105527206068608205...


That is such an odd thing to me, it really bugs me.

Solo players aren't happy that the solo mode isn't included from early on. Why should they spread the word to boost and improve a campaign that is geared for multi-players and adds them as an afterthought.

Moreover, asking to spread the word if nobody knows what that solo-mode is doesn't make sense to me. Is it just another rules section? Do you get extra pieces, a stack of tiles (they don't do cards in Barrage, or will they for solo???) or why, oh why is that SG sooo high?

I understand that recessed boards and custom pieces come with a cost. What do you get with this solo-mode? Not a word about that. But shout it from the roof tops anyway? I'm not happy with that way of handling solo players at all.
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It’s not the most detailed but they say on the campaign page that the solo mode are tile based and designed to automate a player.

I presume it will be a deck of tiles similar to the automas in games like Scythe and Viticulture. I wish they weren’t so against using cards.

If they don’t hit the stretch goal maybe they can throw the solo mode into the KS exclusive box then down the road release it as a mini expansion. It really doesn’t make sense as something that should be in every retail copy if it’s so niche and expensive to produce. Strikes me more as expansion content.
 
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Bernhard W
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
I wish they weren’t so against using cards.

And that's the most silly reason to not include a solo mode, which would attract a fair amount of extra backers.
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Suppadej Mahapokai
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
bankzzzgtr wrote:
the main reason I'm considering to drop the pledge is that solo mode is way too far to be reached.


It's really not, assuming the campaign can recover from its current blunder.

The campaign needs €96,000 over 12.5 days. About €7,700 a day to reach the solo mode and before this slip up it was averaging around that amount and generally campaigns see a surge in the last 3 days that tends to at least double the daily average. This would be enough to put the campaign over the top for the solo mode but in order to get there people need a little faith in the campaign.

Worst comes to worst, if we don't hit the solo mode you can always drop out at the end.

Also if the solo mode is important to you I recommend you go to these links and share.

http://www.facebook.com/CranioCreations/photos/a.58800993787...

http://twitter.com/CranioCreations/status/105527206068608205...



Already retweeted and shared

Actually, I haven't dropped yet. I just reduced my pledge just to observe the campaign a bit futher if it will be more interesting to me again in the coming 2 weeks.
 
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Pep Monné
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I think this KS will reach 328.000 € and contain the solo mode. I've not baked yet but I will do it when the marker reaches 327.950 €.
 
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Bernhard W
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Peperinni wrote:
I think this KS will reach 328.000 € and contain the solo mode. I've not baked yet but I will do it when the marker reaches 327.950 €.

You can do it already before 327.200 € (635 shares on FB, 145 on Twitter).
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Peter Stegemann
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Where can I find some details about the 3D map? I fail to imagine what this actually is.
 
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oriol jauma
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I'm seriously thinking about dropping my pledge.
I love the game, the theme, the mechanics...

However, 60€ + 17€ of shipping = 80€ MSRP. So I don't see any reason why back this project at all instead of waiting a year for it to come to the stores.

I totally don't get the 3D map, as it is not a "fireball island" 3D, and only levels of cardboard which won't be noticeable after all.

However, I'm a sucker for metal coins, and I would have made them an optional buy (same as 3D map). Not a pledge level + SG.


I have the feeling this KS campaign is all over the place and has not been fully thought.

There are still 9 days to go, however, I don't see anything they can add, that could potentially be worth backing (instead of buying it on my LGS, supporting everyone in the process, paying the exact same price).
 
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For me the thing I like about the 3D map is that it has recessed spaces to put your pieces. This seems like a game where things will be easier to bump because much of your components are placed in close proximity to each other.

The tiered water fall aspect I can take or leave.
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Chris Stockdale
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A lot of the individual things have turned me off of the campaign to some degree individually, but it's the cumulation of problems and the disarray in handling things that make me think they have no idea what they are doing. I lowered mine to 1 Euro to watch. If they had created a true deluxe big box edition I would have likely been in.

I kind of wish they should cancel, regroup and relaunch with things completely fixed. They won't though.
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Bernhard W
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
For me the thing I like about the 3D map is that it has recessed spaces to put your pieces. This seems like a game where things will be easier to bump because much of your components are placed in close proximity to each other.

The tiered water fall aspect I can take or leave.

Oh, for some reason I thought the standard board has the recessed spaces too.

I'm too tired of this campaign to check this though. When I find some motivation to think about Barrage again, I will cancel my pledge. But even that is too much effort to do right now.
 
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Nope no recessed areas on the retail map. From what I can tell the 3D board is the most expensive component in the game, that or the metal coins.

If the retail version had a double layered map then the retail version would be €10-€20 more than it already is and the the KS exclusive level would be totally redundant.
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Mitch Harding
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
Nope no recessed areas on the retail map.

In that case, I'm definitely getting the KS version.
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Sander Schippers
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I do think the solo mode will be reached butt......
I don't think the metal coins will be reached. And what follows then is that people are going to drop to the € 79 pledge or pull out completly.
This effect is the worst thing that can happen in the campaign right now.

And this all because they want to deliver it 6 months earlier.
This product could be so much better.

Add-ons metal coins
Deluxe pledge with one box and 3D board.

With removing the metal coins as an Add-on people with only core pledge or core pledge + expansion can pick the metal coins.

And i also think the pledges can be lowered a little €'s.

Also this will allow group pledges.

All this could make this game alot greater then it is now.
And isn't that what we all want after all instead of earlier delivery?


It whouldn't even surprise me that game will be cheaper in retail.
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Gustavo Goncalves
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Rednas79 wrote:

It whouldn't even surprise me that game will be cheaper in retail.


I bet you it will!
 
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Mitch Harding
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I've got plenty of sets of metal coins, so I'm okay reusing one of those if Barrage doesn't have its own. I mean, I'll be happy if it does but it won't affect my decision to pledge or drop my pledge.

I'd be surprised if they don't reach solo mode, although it isn't important to me personally. I also suspect that if they don't reach it during the campaign, they'll make it available somehow. I presume some development work has already been done on it.

All in all, I don't share the doom and gloom attitude shown by some in this thread. But I understand the concerns and I empathize.
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Rednas79 wrote:

And i also think the pledges can be lowered a little €'s.


It's physically impossible to change pledges on kickstarter. What they'd have to do is create new pledges and tell everyone to switch over to those and that would be a huge pain in the butt and would probably piss people off in other ways.


The easiest thing they can do is just print extra metal coins (to get to the economies of scale they say they need to reach) and then sells those at inflated costs (so not to upset backers) on their website or at fairs after the campaign has been filled.

Also as a deluxe backer at €99 I feel like I'm already paying for the metal coins (even if I'm not getting them) so I definitely don't want to pay MORE to get something that I should have already.
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Sander Schippers
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I understand that completly.
The price are weird anyway.
€ 79 for core game + expansion (this is already huge for a core game with a small expansion).

And for € 20 more you can get metal coins, 3D board and another Box?
That is way worth more then € 20.
I am sure if i go for the deluxe pledge i can sell the deluxe box for more then € 20.


The prices they have set doesn't feel right to me.

It feels like they made the first two pledges cost more to lower the exclusive pledge.


I
 
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Chris Stockdale
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I'm confused... Someone actually thinks the Kickstarter box is a good deal? Maybe of all the metal coins were unlocked it would be worth it... But right now it's a terrible deal.

Like all Kickstarters it is going to be much cheaper in retail. A true deluxe version would hold it's value. But this isn't a real deluxe edition.
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Sander Schippers
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So you agree that the Barrage pledge and the Leeghwater pledge are way to expansive right now.
In that way i totaly agree with you.
 
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Bernhard W
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chrisoc13 wrote:
I'm confused... Someone actually thinks the Kickstarter box is a good deal? Maybe of all the metal coins were unlocked it would be worth it... But right now it's a terrible deal.

Like all Kickstarters it is going to be much cheaper in retail. A true deluxe version would hold it's value. But this isn't a real deluxe edition.

Do you think the expansion box is worth spendin 20 Euro on top to get the 3D map? It's a 40 Euro difference to get the KS exclusive box, metal coins aside.
 
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I’d say the expansion has about 1/4-1/5 of what’s in the base game so a good deal for that would be €15 but €20 would be ok if shipping wasn’t higher for the expansion but is so it’s a mediocre deal as far as kickstarters go and it’s a price that’ll be easy to beat at retail.
 
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