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Subject: Current Status rss

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Barry Duran
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Full Disclosure: I'm fully backing this game.

So there's concern about the campaign coming to a full stop in new funding/backers. It seems to me these companies are not leveraging recent Kickstarter experiences by other companies as I'm seeing the same feedback from potential backers: Rule book, gameplay videos, robust SGs. Companies who have this up front with a nice SG release design seem to do well and have a continuous upward trajectory - yes, there's the EB lull for them, but they don't stop or reverse. What's worse is if you don't start with making the Rule Book and Gameplay videos available, releasing them later in the campaign doesn't seem to do any good and the bump in backer response is small. So what I'm learning is companies need to have their ducks in a row from the get go and release SGs quickly if they want a huge backer response.

But I'm no expert so I could be wrong and it's simply be there are x number of backers who are interested in this particular game/components/content and that's it, it's only based on how "good" the game is and the KS experience doesn't mean much.

So I guess I'm concluding, this is it, 400k or so may be the ceiling no matter what the creators do and if they don't release the rules/videos soon, they may fall back past the 300k point. So at this point, it's about retention, not advancing as they missed that window of opportunity.

Path for a successful big box miniature game on Kickstarter: Have rules and gameplay videos posted in the Campaign the moment it goes live. Have interesting SGs ( variety of art, upgraded components, new/cool miniatures, new modes of play ) and host live casts as well to engage backers and post Updates at least daily even if no new SG is unlocked ( like clarifying rules/characters/back story/monsters ). If you don't have this stuff ready, what you get after your EB is about what you'll end up with.
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Dave J
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Are the rules still not out? I thought they were supposed to be days ago. (when I dropped out)
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Bram Kok
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typo360 wrote:
Are the rules still not out? I thought they were supposed to be days ago. (when I dropped out)

There is a WIP rulebook, but it's truly WIP
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Thomas M
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There will be some drops since there was an early bird. The campaign will pick up toward the end. 25 to 33% of the money comes in the last 48 hours.
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Justin Boehm
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I think they jumped up SG gaps too soon, if it were 10k up to 200k then 15k up to 350k there'd be more content and likely more perceived value for new backers.
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Thomas M
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Whenever there is an early bird, I lot of people just click it due to FOMO to make sure they get one. Artificially inflates the early totals. Then, those backers come back later and decide whether to keep it.

No matter what Grimlord does, they will not keep all of them. There are a lot of great games on KS right now.
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Josh Worley
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The4thJawa wrote:
typo360 wrote:
Are the rules still not out? I thought they were supposed to be days ago. (when I dropped out)

There is a WIP rulebook, but it's truly WIP


It's not even WIP in the sense of "it's complete but we may make tweaks here and there due to further playtesting/development." It's WIP in the sense of "here are about half of the rules for the game, combat isn't addressed yet***, the victory/failure conditions aren't addressed yet, etc."

They have essentially created an MS word file with a lot of text and a few pictures. No formatting or explanations at all yet. Truly an Alpha rulebook.

***combat rules have been added now, but were not included when the initial draft rulebook was released
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Josh Worley
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I'm still in on the campaign, but at this point it's looking more and more like I will drop my pledge. It's not because there's a ton of awesome projects on KS right now (I'm not interested in most of them, thankfully).

But like the OP said, in this day and age, for a minis-heavy KS project you need to have all of your ducks in a row at the beginning. There's still no gameplay video. There are no paid (or unpaid) previews or reviews. The WIP rules depict clunky mechanics. They launched the campaign too early.

This, combined with lots of other great looking projects right now where the creators/developers DID do their homework in advance and release a proper campaign, has me definitely leaning towards cancelling my Early Bird pledge.

I'm still holding on to it for the time being, though. I love the premise/idea of the game and don't currently have anything like it in my collection. But right now the mechanics seem really clunky and there's just not a lot to go on to determine if I actually *will* like the game.
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Chris Meeusen

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bigvolfan82bg wrote:
There will be some drops since there was an early bird. The campaign will pick up toward the end. 25 to 33% of the money comes in the last 48 hours.


As OP said though, and as I've also noticed the last 2 weeks or so, these bigger end campaigns aren't having/getting the usual 25-30%, more like 5-10% for the most part. We'll have a much larger sample size in the next two weeks as more finish up to see if this trend continues or if it reverts to the way it has been in the past.
 
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John B
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This fall has been brutal on my wallet - or actually, my desire to abuse my wallet.
Agreed with much of the above. There's a lot of competition right now on KS.
I think whether fully ready or not, Grimlord wanted to launch Everrain during the public "splash" of Village Attacks hotness since it's being delivered right now.
I am sure that before going into production the rules will be vetted and proof-read. I'm backing it for the long run however. I know "wait and see" and faith don't help people on the fence and a deadline to pledge or not.
I can see a lot of use for having a $1 pledge on games that have your attention. It's a nice way to stay in the loop, not a big cost, and then after the hype you can go over what the game actually is.
My reasons for backing are based on the good experience I'm having with Village Attacks, and in spite of a crowded KS budget, I like the ideas in this game, the ship crew, the exploration aspect, the openness to the narration mechanic. All good points to me.
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The Rake
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I was so excited for this game and was really hoping to be blown away by the campaign but money is tight and I no longer back any game blindly.

Once it went live I felt the exact same way, this game has not been developed enough yet. It needs more time to be molded into what I was hoping it would be and I feel the campaign has been launched too early.

The story elements appear to be rudimentary at best and really need some more work. No idea how combat is handled. What will player interaction be like. Will the win conditions be fun or just fizzle? These are the things that make or ruin a game for me and they need to be available and clear at the start of the campaign or within the first two or three days at the latest. So while I was really wanting this to be a must back Kickstarter, I've decided to wait and see how this game evolves. I really do not like investing money into something that I feel needs a lot more development to reach greatness and not just be another average game.
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Ville E
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I grabbed an EB on the first day. Even though I dislike them, it doesn't keep me from pledging (I try to look at it as a discount on shipping). I really wanted to like this game, the visual aspect is wonderful and I like the theme. But, as Josh said earlier rules seem clunky to me. I dropped out shortly after the combat update.

I don't mind that we're missing rulebook or getting very early WIP. I don't mind no gameplay vids on launch. I especially don't mind no reviews... You can really work around those things if you want. Cloudspire launched with no rulebook (and we won't get one, it's still in constant flux), no gameplay vids (very basics round overview IIRC) but they have made several gameplay vids since the launch. That shows to me as a backer that the creators are confident enough with their product to showcase it.

Experiences may naturally vary, but I got a really CMON vibe from the campaign. My limited experience with those is that it seems to me they have the campaign pretty much planned and let it roll out on its own weight. They have the fanbase to do that. For Everrain, I would have hoped for a little more reactivity - demand for rules and gameplay vid were there from day 1.

The game is pretty though! If only they had a '1 of everything' pledge for the models only, I would be really tempted.

I had a point when I started posting this... I have no idea what it was.. So I'll just leave this turd-post here. Night shifts are bad for your thinky-parts!
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Mugaaz Zek
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So strange, they're not a new developer, they have made good to great games in the past, and they've done kickstarters before. I still can't understand how they have all the models, components, and very slick KS done....but almost a total zero in terms of gameplay or mechanics. Seriously bizarre. I thought it was was some strange strategy to generate interest a couple days in, but now it just appears to be rushed. I'll hold my EB for a bit longer then pull out if no real gameplay videos.
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Will Baker
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The value is not there. Village Attack had several free expansions chocked with minis. This one replaces existing models. What bothers me is the lack of videos however they are coming. It’s looking more and more I’m going to drop my pledge. Sword and Sorcery will most likely get my pledge.
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N R
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I dropped. I was not impressed with the campaign. I was concerned when it launched without a rule book or game play video. The rule book, when it was finally released, was quite lacking. I held on for a bit longer because I really liked the theme and minis. I found it quite disheartening that up until the day I dropped, I did not know how to actually win the game.

Two things finally killed it for me. First, I remembered Atlantis Rising was coming to Kickstarter. Secondly, seeing the announced add-on. How can I expect to be excited about new components when I don't even know how I win the game?

It's certainly a disappointment. I had high hopes for The Everrain.
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Nick Bos
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OmegaDestroyer wrote:
I dropped. I was not impressed with the campaign. I was concerned when it launched without a rule book or game play video. The rule book, when it was finally released, was quite lacking. I held on for a bit longer because I really liked the theme and minis. I found it quite disheartening that up until the day I dropped, I did not know how to actually win the game.

Two things finally killed it for me. First, I remembered Atlantis Rising was coming to Kickstarter. Secondly, seeing the announced add-on. How can I expect to be excited about new components when I don't even know how I win the game?

It's certainly a disappointment. I had high hopes for The Everrain.


Same here, dropped mine as well. No passion at all from the devs (look at the campaign for Street masters, and their updates for a contrast), nothing in place before the campaign started (rulebook, videos), paid expansions. All kinds of red flags. I was willing to give another try to the dev after the disappointment of Endure the Stars, but seems like I won't after all.
 
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Marco Herreras
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gelaar wrote:
What's worse is if you don't start with making the Rule Book and Gameplay videos available, releasing them later in the campaign doesn't seem to do any good and the bump in backer response is small. So what I'm learning is companies need to have their ducks in a row from the get go and release SGs quickly if they want a huge backer response.


Couldn't agree more.

It happened in Agents of Mayhem and Exo Manking Reborn. You can check both kicktraq daily funding curves or even their KS pages comments: they do not grow agonizingly slow in mid campaign like most (eventually successful) games, they ACTUALLY HAVE A NET LOSS OF BACKERS from day 4-8, and it is because there is not enough ab initio info about the game, more so in a very competitive KS ecosystem.

Yes, SOME EB backers withdraw after perusing available info because they decide it is not for them actually, BUT, if there is no rulebook nor clear gameplay videos from the very beginning, MANY MORE backers will drop. ESPECIALLY in a KS fall like this one with so much competition.
See this BGG thread for further loose discussion: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2089504/remember-5th-novemb...

These net dropoffs in early campaign will cause a snowball effect, making OTHER backers drop at a later stage, feeling *they would not be backing the best possible version of the game, but rather a somehow subpar one*. And even if they believe in the game, they decide to back OTHER games which show a more commonplace healthy path in Kicktraq.
And finally, potential NEW backers will see the red bars from day 3-6 in Kicktraq and will NOT jump in the campaign.
The first net loss of backers is never again recovered, EVEN if the last 48h rush does indeed bring backers, usually because the creators heavily reshape the SGs from mid-campaign to the end.

This is all only personal opinion based on following about 30-40 APPARENT dudes-on-a-map game campaigns, so take it with a grain of salt...

As for The Everrain, I will wait until the very end as I am really intrigued by the game and it looks gorgeous AND somewhat ORIGINAL in its mechanics and embroidering with the theme... BUT, there's Claustrophobia which looks like a no-brainer at 79 USD (not 102 like the core day-1 Everrain), and successfully conveys a great deal of intuition on how the game works, even before reading the rulebook! There's Sword&Sorcery (no rulebook afaik, but several pages on BGG and youtube videos). There's Deep Madness, same case. Edit: The Edge: Dawnfall also!
The fact they are reprints of hugely successful games does not help either.

Right now, the net drop of backers is actually very low imho, especially compared to AoM and Exo, but I fear a critical mass of dropoff backers is a very real possibility, and it would snowball as described.
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michel lebrun
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I dropped too yesterday, I just don't understand the inactivity of the creator, it's all promise and no content, it's a really boring kickstarter all around. I'm gonna wait till it's in retail, see if they actually pull out a good game with the concept, the concept in itself look awesome by the way.
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Martin V
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OmegaDestroyer wrote:
I dropped. I was not impressed with the campaign. I was concerned when it launched without a rule book or game play video. The rule book, when it was finally released, was quite lacking. I held on for a bit longer because I really liked the theme and minis. I found it quite disheartening that up until the day I dropped, I did not know how to actually win the game.

Two things finally killed it for me. First, I remembered Atlantis Rising was coming to Kickstarter. Secondly, seeing the announced add-on. How can I expect to be excited about new components when I don't even know how I win the game?

It's certainly a disappointment. I had high hopes for The Everrain.


+1: I just dropped out, even with my Early Bird pledge. I really wanted to wait a few more days, but just didn't see a reason for it. I really think the creators dropped the ball by not having a better rulebook. That's an expensive pledge for the chance of a good game.

I couldn't believe the posts that said the rulebook was not important. WHAT??? Sure, the art and minis look great, but if there's not a solid rules set then what do you have? Plus, if there's no rulebook, then what possible play-testing could have been done??? Another red flag.

The concept and theme look great, but there's still so much to be worked out. If the game's any good, I'll just pick it up retail in a year. I hope it works out for The Everrain. I just don't have the courage or money to stick with an incomplete KS game.

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Marco Herreras
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Voice of Reason wrote:
OmegaDestroyer wrote:
I dropped. I was not impressed with the campaign. I was concerned when it launched without a rule book or game play video. The rule book, when it was finally released, was quite lacking. I held on for a bit longer because I really liked the theme and minis. I found it quite disheartening that up until the day I dropped, I did not know how to actually win the game.

Two things finally killed it for me. First, I remembered Atlantis Rising was coming to Kickstarter. Secondly, seeing the announced add-on. How can I expect to be excited about new components when I don't even know how I win the game?

It's certainly a disappointment. I had high hopes for The Everrain.


+1: I just dropped out, even with my Early Bird pledge. I really wanted to wait a few more days, but just didn't see a reason for it. I really think the creators dropped the ball by not having a better rulebook. That's an expensive pledge for the chance of a good game.

I couldn't believe the posts that said the rulebook was not important. WHAT??? Sure, the art and minis look great, but if there's not a solid rules set then what do you have? Plus, if there's no rulebook, then what possible play-testing could have been done??? Another red flag.

The concept and theme look great, but there's still so much to be worked out. If the game's any good, I'll just pick it up retail in a year. I hope it works out for The Everrain. I just don't have the courage or money to stick with an incomplete KS game.


Absolutely. As I said, it looks I'll get much more out of current live KS of Deep Madness, Claustrophobia, and Sword&Sorcery... Luckily 2 of them have Pledge Managers
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Alex K
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Right now I'm a Early Bird Backer for Deep Madness and Everrain and I'm also a Backer on Claustrophobia 1643.
I could get all but it would put a ig dent in my wallet and then I couldn't get the upcoming Reichbusters or Assasins Creed game which I'm also quite interested in.
Looking at the games I'm backing Deep Madness seems to offer the most for the money and it looks good. It's also a reprint so you can find infos about the game on the web though I've also read that at the start of the campaign some people just got their pledge or are still waiting, so they probably should have waited a bit before starting the reprint campaign.
The first Claustrophobia seems like a good game and it's the cheapest of the bunch, though now after the campaign has started I'm not as excited as I was before. I would have liked it if there was a gameplay video, the videos they have are only review videos (at least that is what they say hadn't time to watch them yet). I also dislike it that all the normal troglodytes are the same sculpt, I would have liked for around half of them to be an alternate sculpt.
Now to the Everrain, from all of them I like the look and idea of it the most and the minis look great but the infos on the gameplay are surely lacking.
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Ville E
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Iceeagle85 wrote:
The first Claustrophobia seems like a good game and it's the cheapest of the bunch, though now after the campaign has started I'm not as excited as I was before. I would have liked it if there was a gameplay video, the videos they have are only review videos (at least that is what they say hadn't time to watch them yet). I also dislike it that all the normal troglodytes are the same sculpt, I would have liked for around half of them to be an alternate sculpt.


There is a gameplay video, just above the reviews (it's a youtube link, not embedded).

There's a new video on Everrain since I last visited. A whopping 6 minute sneak peek with 0 new info. Golf clap. Maybe I was a Everrain sailor in another life, since I seem to be surprisingly salty about this campaign...
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N R
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Grimlord is trying to staunch further losses with a free expansion to all backers that includes new characters, enemies, and cards. It may be worth your while if you are a backer or on the fence.


I suspect the items are from planned stretch goals that will not be meant at this rate. That said, it's a smart move on Grimlord's part.
 
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Felipe
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I decided to cancel mine and spend extra on Sword & Sorcery.
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Bram Kok
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OmegaDestroyer wrote:
Grimlord is trying to staunch further losses with a free expansion to all backers that includes new characters, enemies, and cards. It may be worth your while if you are a backer or on the fence.

Looks like they took a play from Mythic's Solomon Kane playbook.

But I'm not on the fence due to lack of value (which was a complaint about the SK base game compared to the expansions), but because there's a lack of information about the game(play). And adding more stuff isn't gonna remedy that.

So I'll stay on the fence a little longer, but I think I'll drop once AC and/or Reichbusters goes live on KS.
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