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Hand of Fate: Ordeals» Forums » General

Subject: What is this company doing? rss

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King Maple
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This game - with its so-called 'exclusives' - has been available to buy in retail, yet backers have nothing and company is not addressing majority of questions backers have.

I've experienced my fair share of badly run Kickstarters (looking at you, FunForge and Lone Shark Games), but this is getting close to sharing that dishonor.
 
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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Slashdoctor wrote:
This game - with its so-called 'exclusives' - has been available to buy in retail, yet backers have nothing and company is not addressing majority of questions backers have.

I've experienced my fair share of badly run Kickstarters (looking at you, FunForge and Lone Shark Games), but this is getting close to sharing that dishonor.

From what I know Rule & Make didn’t give exclusives to retailers. And they set an official street date for the game, to be sold AFTER all backers have theirs. So whatever you have seen, chances are good that this retailer was a backer and simply used their pledge level rewards for sales. Backers first has definitely been Rule & Makes‘ motto when they talked to me.
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Joshua V
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snake2shake wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
This game - with its so-called 'exclusives' - has been available to buy in retail, yet backers have nothing and company is not addressing majority of questions backers have.

I've experienced my fair share of badly run Kickstarters (looking at you, FunForge and Lone Shark Games), but this is getting close to sharing that dishonor.

From what I know Rule & Make didn’t give exclusives to retailers. And they set an official street date for the game, to be sold AFTER all backers have theirs. So whatever you have seen, chances are good that this retailer was a backer and simply used their pledge level rewards for sales. Backers first has definitely been Rule & Makes‘ motto when they talked to me.


According to the designer in the comments section in the Kickstarter the exclusives getting sent to retailers (miniature market, CSI, and Cardhaus at least) was a mistake by the distributor. As for releasing it into retail after backers have their product, they definitely sent it out to retailers for sale before US backers have it, which is a big foul IMO.
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Daniel Davis
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I went to my LGS last night, and they had 3 copies and some extras. I asked when they got it, and they said that morning from their distributor. I didn't even know the game was close to being shipped.
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Jerrod Warr
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How can you tell of a copy has exclusives or not?
 
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Joshua V
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mercopparis wrote:
How can you tell of a copy has exclusives or not?


The exclusives version is called "Special Edition" vs just Hand of Fate: Ordeals and then the Royalty expansion. The Special Edition has the kickstarter extras (dealer mode, Kallas token, etc.) and is supposedly only supposed to be sold at conventions, special events, etc. but not open for regular retail sale. Allegedly....
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Colin Cherry
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Shaftwindu wrote:
mercopparis wrote:
How can you tell of a copy has exclusives or not?


The exclusives version is called "Special Edition" vs just Hand of Fate: Ordeals and then the Royalty expansion. The Special Edition has the kickstarter extras (dealer mode, Kallas token, etc.) and is supposedly only supposed to be sold at conventions, special events, etc. but not open for regular retail sale. Allegedly....


It doesn't have all of the Kickstarter exclusives. The company actually decided most of those things wouldn't be Kickstarter exclusives after the campaign without telling anyone.

From the publisher:

"All backers will be getting both the Kallas Idol and the Pathfinder Token.

The Pathfinder Token is packed in the Kickstarter Exclusive Pack and the Kallas Idol is packed in the Special Edition box."

So they basically made another version that included some of what was promised to be Kickstarter exclusive and called it Special Edition which is available in retail. The stuff they left as Kickstarter exclusive comes only in that Kickstarter Exclusive Pack (which no longer contains the Kallas Idol).

Basically lots of...questionable...choices by the company.
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King Maple
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Problem is that they prioritized deliveries to distributors before Kickstarter backers. No matter that mistakes were made to release early, they had them and made sales. Same with Essen.

Backers didn't.
 
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Dave Scott
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Hi folks, in case you missed it, our latest Kickstarter update goes into further detail about the concerns some of our backers have raised, see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chaoticpattern/hand-of-....

We definitely understand that the pointy-end of this campaign has made some people unhappy, and for that, we’re very sorry.

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Daniel L
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I'm a little confused on retail vs special edition. To the best of my knowledge, there's retail, which has, well, the base game stuff. THEN there's the special edition which includes a bunch of stuff like new modes (dealer mode, hard mode etc) and encounters. It does not (?) include a few exclusive things like better metal chips and such.

But, now i'm hearing it DOES, accidently? So, my question is, is the special edition overall a mistake, or only the "few exclusive things"? As in, can i, as a retail customer, get the extra encounters but not the few exclusives, or can i just ONLY get the base game without extra modes and such?
 
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Joshua VanBooven

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from what i read i got the understanding that they are just calling the version coming to the backers the special edition. So the only way to get the special edition was to back it on ks or maybe grab it at a con.
 
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Daniel L
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But the special edition has been available to pre order in multiple places for at least a month or two now. How would they not know?
 
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Colin Cherry
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crazyfacestu wrote:
from what i read i got the understanding that they are just calling the version coming to the backers the special edition. So the only way to get the special edition was to back it on ks or maybe grab it at a con.


This is false.

Allen has said that there are three relevant items here:

- Retail Game
- Special Edition
- Kickstarter Exclusive Pack

The backers will be getting the Special Edition PLUS the Kickstarter Exclusive Pack. The problem is that things, like the Kallas Idol, that we were promised to be Kickstarter Exclusives were added to the Special Edition and Rule and Make didn't tell anyone until they got caught. You see Miniature Market posts a component list for all of their products and I, and other backers, saw the Kallas Idol, etc. and called Rule and Make out on it. They then said "oh yeah, remember the random gifts we announced? That was because we took a bunch of your exclusives and put them in the Special Edition without telling you...didn't you get the memo?"

They are claiming that these Special Editions got into the wild "by accident". Personally I feel like that's a little suspect - so far two US retailers, Miniature Market and Cool Stuff, Inc. have games in hand and are selling them. I suspect they put fulfillment to backers on the back burner to get games out in retail and didn't expect the level of blowback that they ended up getting. Now they are doing damage control.

I can almost hear Allen saying "Don't you all have phones?"
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Joshua V
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Batariel wrote:
crazyfacestu wrote:
from what i read i got the understanding that they are just calling the version coming to the backers the special edition. So the only way to get the special edition was to back it on ks or maybe grab it at a con.


This is false.

Allen has said that there are three relevant items here:

- Retail Game
- Special Edition
- Kickstarter Exclusive Pack

The backers will be getting the Special Edition PLUS the Kickstarter Exclusive Pack. The problem is that things, like the Kallas Idol, that we were promised to be Kickstarter Exclusives were added to the Special Edition and Rule and Make didn't tell anyone until they got caught. You see Miniature Market posts a component list for all of their products and I, and other backers, saw the Kallas Idol, etc. and called Rule and Make out on it. They then said "oh yeah, remember the random gifts we announced? That was because we took a bunch of your exclusives and put them in the Special Edition without telling you...didn't you get the memo?"

They are claiming that these Special Editions got into the wild "by accident". Personally I feel like that's a little suspect - so far two US retailers, Miniature Market and Cool Stuff, Inc. have games in hand and are selling them. I suspect they put fulfillment to backers on the back burner to get games out in retail and didn't expect the level of blowback that they ended up getting. Now they are doing damage control.

I can almost hear Allen saying "Don't you all have phones?"


It's not the Kallas figurine that gets me, it's the fact it's available for retail and backers don't have the game yet. From the Kickstarter FAQ:

"Is this game going to be available at retail? How much will it cost and how long after Kickstarter backers receive their copies will it become available?
The final MSRP has not been determined just yet but it will be higher than the Kickstarter pledge amount. Additionally, the retail version will not include any Kickstarter exclusive rewards. We will be working with Passport Game Studios to bring the game to the retail market worldwide. In terms of retail release, we don’t have a hard date yet but it will be some months after the Kickstarter backers receive their copies that you will start to see it on store shelves."

Kick in the balls...
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Steve Crane
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Batariel wrote:
I can almost hear Allen saying "Don't you all have phones?"


He's not on Activision/Blizzard's payroll is he?!

If a KS creator does this sort of thing I just blacklist them for any future Kickstarters, knowing that I'll be fine getting it at Retail. Simply means they get less money from backers in the future. I've got several creators on that list who have shipped out KS exclusives to everyone and it's ended up being cheaper at retail, especially when factoring in KS "shipping charges" vs actual retailer delivery charges, if any

Doing these favours for retailers / distributors is stupid, because the kind of discount they give usually means a loot less earned anyway

Rule and Make could make it right with the backers. Question is, will they?

I still don't even have the game!
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Thomas Elder
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"If a KS creator does this sort of thing I just blacklist them for any future Kickstarters, knowing that I'll be fine getting it at Retail. Simply means they get less money from backers in the future."

And if the kickstarter gets less money from backers in the future then you won't be able to buy the game in retail because the game won't get funded.
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Colin Cherry
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Thomas Elder wrote:

"If a KS creator does this sort of thing I just blacklist them for any future Kickstarters, knowing that I'll be fine getting it at Retail. Simply means they get less money from backers in the future."

And if the kickstarter gets less money from backers in the future then you won't be able to buy the game in retail because the game won't get funded.


Very true. Maybe the creator should have thought of that before so casually discarding their backers as money already in the bank.

I know I'm extremely unlikely to back another game from Rule and Make. And I made a point of telling this story to as many people as I could at PAX Unplugged, particularly if they were eyeing up or playing Hand of Fate: Ordeals. People should know the business practices of companies they give money to. And they should consider if they really want to support said companies.
 
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