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Heroes of Terrinoth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some Nemesis Questions rss

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Cygnus Crux
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Like a few other gamers here, I am a bit confused as to how the game mechanics work when a nemesis is defeated. So here I am hoping that some others more knowledgeable than myself can help me (and anyone else with these questions) out.

1) To the best of my knowledge it is not explicitly stated where the nemesis goes when it is defeated. I have been playing it that they go into the never mentioned "nemesis discard pile" that is just the nemesis card face down in the nemesis area next to the quest card. Is this right?

2) What (if anything) happens when you roll a skull face on the enemy die once the nemesis is defeated? Is the skull effect for that quest static and stays in place whether the nemesis is still undefeated or not? We have been playing that once the nemesis is defeated, the skull die no longer resolves the nemesis skull action (I mean they're defeated/dead, right? How can they still attack the party?). I assume that since this tends to make the game much easier once the nemesis is gone, it probably isn't legit...

3) When an event on the peril track indicates that the nemesis should leave the lair and engage a hero, how does having already defeated the nemesis affect this? Do the nemesis re-spawn to accomplish this?

Hopefully some answers to this will improve my group's enjoyment of the game as it seems like the big sticking point is how the nemesis is supposed to behave.

Cheers!

 
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T France
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Not sure of 1 and 3 but there is this in the rulebook:


• A faceup Nemesis can resolve a threat (skull) regardless of whether they are engaged with a hero, in the shadows, in the nemesis lair, exhausted, have counterattacked that action, etc.

Makes me think the skull can be ignored once defeated...
 
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Walt MacEachern
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I've played (in WHQ) that he just goes back to the lair and his power is always in play if rolled.
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Larry Romine
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1. The rules state that “Nemeses follow the same rules as other enemies with the following exceptions” (page 11). The rules then list 4 exceptions which do not state what happens to a nemesis that has been defeated. That would mean that the Nemesis follows the same rules as other enemies and goes into the enemy discard pile after it has been defeated. The rules for regular discarded enemies are found on pages 9 and 12.

2. You are playing this correctly. The rules state that “if one or more threat results are rolled, the active hero resolves all threat effects on quest sheets, faceup cards in play, and faceup cards in the nemesis lair” (page 6). After a Nemesis is defeated, it goes into the enemy discard pile and is no longer “in play” so the threat effect on this card is not resolved. If there are any other cards with the threat symbol that are face up and in play, then you would resolve the threat effects on each of those cards.

3. A defeated nemesis is in the discard pile and not in the lair, so nothing would happen.

Until FFG releases an FAQ, that is how the rules are being interpreted by people on other threads. Having the Nemesis in the enemy discard pile poses some other problems. For example, what happens to a nemesis when the enemy discard pile has to be shuffled to create a new deck? (page 12)

I prefer the idea that the nemesis is face down in a special nemesis discard pile because that solves so many problems. Unfortunately, there are only three discard piles mentioned in the rules, and a Nemesis Discard Pile isn't one of them. It is possible that there was an intention to have a nemesis discard pile that did not materialize.

Also, a defeated nemesis does not mean that it is dead. Splig speaks in the victory text after you win The Goblin Problem, and you have to defeat him to beat that quest. So it may be possible that the Nemesis can come back from the discard pile. The question is, how?
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Carlo Tibaldi
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Mmmm ... I expect a Nemesis goes back faceup in their Lair when defeated. I didn't find anything in the rules against this interpretation.

The reasoning is simple: Nemesis are always there in their Lair to damage the heroes. Sometimes they become engaged and defeating them you just send them back to their Lair where they were before becoming engaged.

This will allow an easy management of the threats and, probably, the scenarios become "less" easy, which is a general feeling that, I suppose, is mainly due to a heroes favorable interpretation of the rules :-)
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T France
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tibia wrote:
Mmmm ... I expect a Nemesis goes back faceup in their Lair when defeated. I didn't find anything in the rules against this interpretation.

The reasoning is simple: Nemesis are always there in their Lair to damage the heroes. Sometimes they become engaged and defeating them you just send them back to their Lair where they were before becoming engaged.

This will allow an easy management of the threats and, probably, the scenarios become "less" easy, which is a general feeling that, I suppose, is mainly due to a heroes favorable interpretation of the rules :-)


But you can’t base your expectations on what’s NOT in the rules. RAW it would go to the Enemy discard pile...
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Walt MacEachern
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Unless it’s said in the rules there is no Nemesis discard pile, but plenty of implication that the Nemesis goes back the lair. In the first mission of WHQ, which this game is based on, the Nemesis routinely gets defeated and back the the lair as part of the Peril track, so there’s that to back up keeping him there in HoT.
 
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John Buczek
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While not explicitly answered, it seems clear based on RAW that the Nemesis is discarded like any other enemy. While the game is based on and heavily inspired by the previous WHQ game it is NOT a sequel or new version of it. We need to start every rules discussion or clarification with what HoT rules are published. You can certainly house rule however you like for your group. That's the strength of board games like this. We can all adjust difficulty every time we play. But RAW while not explicit do seem clear enough.
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D
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is the nemesis always considered faceup in the nemesis lair by default?
 
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Graham Martin
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This is also discussed in this thread.

I have submitted to FFG and will post in that thread when they respond.
 
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Cygnus Crux
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Many thanks to all of you whom replied with your answers.

Even though it doesn't appear as if anything "concrete" has emerged, it opened up a few new suggestions as to how I can house rule the nemesis actions until a more official (or at the very least less vague) ruling by FFG is established. Hopefully something will come through the FFG pipeline and a definitive series of answers can be established to satisfy the rules sticklers around, such as those in my play group.

I'm always open to hearing new interpretations though, so keep 'em coming!

Thanks!
 
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Larry Romine
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I've posted this in the other Nemesis thread, but I'll post it here as well. I hope this helps.

FFG had a gameplay livestream for HoT and addressed this rule.

Here is a link to the YouTube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtZt3XwjINw

At 31:18 the question was asked:
“When you kill the nemesis, does he go into the normal discard pile (and thus has a chance to respawn) or are they dead permanently?”

Brandon Perdue a board game developer who worked on HoT said:
“They go in the normal discard pile unless otherwise stated.”
 
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