GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
7,937 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
21 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Lincoln» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to get a contested area in the first place? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris
United Kingdom
Birmingham
England
flag msg tools
badge
Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars, where you will be forced to drift aimlessly farther into the vast, empty abyss of space until a lack of food, water and oxygen causes you to succumb to Death's cold embrace.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stupid question before a first play... how does it come to pass that an area is contested in the first place? You can't deploy into an area you don't control, and moving units into an area starts a battle immediately... It's blatantly possible from the rules, but I can't see how you end up with contested areas at all?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Stupid question before a first play... how does it come to pass that an area is contested in the first place? You can't deploy into an area you don't control, and moving units into an area starts a battle immediately... It's blatantly possible from the rules, but I can't see how you end up with contested areas at all?


Moving units into an area does not start an attack immediately, Rather, the defender has the option to withdraw into the opposite "half" of the area. The attacker then moves in to their "half" and the area becomes contested.

The attack has to play a card before the withdraw decision is made, so this is an important part of bluff/strategy in thinning out their hand.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United Kingdom
Birmingham
England
flag msg tools
badge
Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars, where you will be forced to drift aimlessly farther into the vast, empty abyss of space until a lack of food, water and oxygen causes you to succumb to Death's cold embrace.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MattDP wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Stupid question before a first play... how does it come to pass that an area is contested in the first place? You can't deploy into an area you don't control, and moving units into an area starts a battle immediately... It's blatantly possible from the rules, but I can't see how you end up with contested areas at all?


Moving units into an area does not start an attack immediately, Rather, the defender has the option to withdraw into the opposite "half" of the area. The attacker then moves in to their "half" and the area becomes contested.

The attack has to play a card before the withdraw decision is made, so this is an important part of bluff/strategy in thinning out their hand.


OK, super. So the split line is irrelevant until you are attacked having full control, and you withdraw into the half of the location they didn't enter through? Whilst you previously controlled the whole thing, the battle, of ALL chits, potentially excluding the fort if its on the wrong side of the line, battle in the half that the attacker entered through.

When the area is no longer contested, you once again would control the entire thing, and the line again no longer matters?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
OK, super. So the split line is irrelevant until you are attacked having full control,


Not quite. It does matter which have of the split you place a fort, but not for anything else.

TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
and you withdraw into the half of the location they didn't enter through?


Yes. You no longer control the location for the purposes of Deployment, Union VP or Confederate bonus spaces on the Europe track but you can still trace a supply line through the half you occupy.

TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
When the area is no longer contested, you once again would control the entire thing, and the line again no longer matters?


Yes, again with the exception for which side of the line a fort is placed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar

Firstly, many thanks to the contributors here and in other threads trying to fathom out how to play this game properly. Or "playtesting", as I think it's usually called.

A picture tells a thousand words, as they say. So presumably, it would be possible to end all confusion if some kind person was prepared to illustrate the various stages of movement/deploy/withdraw/attack etc, with a few simple diagrams? Presumably also, this will require the input of someone in authority who can address the uncertainties already raised?

I consider myself to be above average when it comes to rules understanding and explaining. In the case of this game, I'm totally defeated.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Highland Cow wrote:
A picture tells a thousand words, as they say. So presumably, it would be possible to end all confusion if some kind person was prepared to illustrate the various stages of movement/deploy/withdraw/attack etc, with a few simple diagrams? Presumably also, this will require the input of someone in authority who can address the uncertainties already raised?


I'm pretty sure I understand how to play the game correctly, so I could potentially do this. However, the key thing is, as you say, someone in authority. There's not a lot of point in me essentially doing a pictorial rules rewrite if I'm wrong about my understanding. And if the publisher steps in to clear things up, I probably don't need to.

I tried to explain (in words) how I think it works in this thread (read the whole thread):
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2094228/control-and-com...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
MattDP wrote:
There's not a lot of point in me essentially doing a pictorial rules rewrite if I'm wrong about my understanding. And if the publisher steps in to clear things up, I probably don't need to.

Let's hope for the best, although I note that the publisher didn't step in to clear up such ambiguities reported during the KS campaign.

I have since located this runthrough video, which features a representative of the publisher. I didn't get far with it though, since a rules blunder at around 4:30ish (trashing the wrong cards), makes me doubt whether the publisher knows how to play properly.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Thrower
United Kingdom
Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Highland Cow wrote:
I have since located this runthrough video, which features a representative of the publisher. I didn't get far with it though, since a rules blunder at around 4:30ish (trashing the wrong cards), makes me doubt whether the publisher knows how to play properly.


Didn't see that error
OP points out below there is certainly an error - you trash the 3-recruit card, not the cards you use to "pay" for it.

There are certainly errors in the first few minutes. The Confederate hand size is not "always 5" but depends on the blockade (they correct this later on). And changing the blockade is not something "only the Union can do" as there's at least one blockade card in the Confederate deck.

Watching more, they forget to move the Europe track after the first battle. The Confederates should have gained three spaces: two for the two Union casualties and one for taking a Union controlled space. I also noticed the Europe marker doesn't start on the right space (it should be where the S is).

This is exceptionally poor. I'm really worried now about how well the game was tested and checked. It seems tough on the Union but I had presumed that was just a learning curve but based on this evidence it's quite possible the game is almost impossible for the Union and no-one thought to check.

At several points they say "discard" when they mean "remove" but they do put the cards in the right pile. I find it much easier to put removed cards back in the box to avoid confusion.

Stopped watching at about 20 minutes. Have mailed the publisher to suggest they just remove this video as it's only going to add to the confusion.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Schmitz
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They were also not moving the Europe tracker as battles were won/lost which is a rule that I find is easily overlooked.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
MattDP wrote:
At one point the gentleman says "discard" when he means "remove" but he does put it in the right pile. I find it much easier to put removed cards back in the box to avoid confusion.


They played the game trashing cards which are supposed to be discarded and discarding cards that are supposed to be trashed.

To be honest, I don't understand why all those one-use cards don't bear a suitable icon (a red banner or something) to reinforce this critical rule. How else are you supposed to teach new players which cards have a once-only ability?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
PSC games
msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hi James,

We apologize for the errors in the video. We are going to review this video and film a new one new week.

Thanks,

Katie.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Schmitz
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Highland Cow wrote:

To be honest, I don't understand why all those one-use cards don't bear a suitable icon (a red banner or something) to reinforce this critical rule. How else are you supposed to teach new players which cards have a once-only ability?


I think for the most part, the trashing rules are simple - if you use it for the deploy icon, unless it is a unit of 1 strength, you'll end up taking the card out of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
pscgames wrote:
Hi James,

We apologize for the errors in the video. We are going to review this video and film a new one new week.

Thanks,

Katie.


Thank you. Whilst start-to-finish runthrough plays can be enjoyable to watch, might I suggest that the focus of your new video should primarily concentrate on teaching the rules. What's needed is a step-by-step explanation of every possible player action, reinforced by close-up demonstrations of what's taking place on the board.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.