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Lynette
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So this morning one of my FB friends posted about this gem of an article from this past summer.

Should Giving a Woman Oral Sex Be Mandatory for Men?
Canadian feminist Liz Plank has some choice words for DJ Khaled



Of course the outrage gets going without anybody even reading the entire article first. *sigh* But I have higher hopes for here. At least SOME of you will read the article in full.


Anyway I love her closing!

Quote:
Given the current political climate, there is no shortage of concerns for women to fight for. But the crummy state of the world doesn’t make the attainment of sexual satisfaction and well-being a frivolous pursuit, it makes it an even more crucial one. Cunnilingus isn’t optional, it’s political. No equality in the streets if there isn’t equality in the sheets. Besides, if we’re all forced to go through this time in history together, we might as well have great sex while we’re doing it.


To which I say... Huzzah!! Here is modern feminist I can say I share some serious common ground ideology with.


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J.D. Hall
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Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....
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Lynette
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remorseless1 wrote:
Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....


Anybody who has been around here awhile knows you aren't going to get any argument from me about the joys of reciprocity.
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Ray Mac
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I’m also not advocating for anyone to do anything they don’t want to do in bed.


I don't think she really understands what the word "mandatory" means in regards to her article title.


She also claims...

Quote:
#NotAllWomen have trouble achieving orgasms. Only one group of women do: the ones who sleep with men.


This is just incorrect. I've seen letters from women on advice/agony Aunt type letters pages frequently where they've spoken about not being able to achieve orgasms either with or without a partner (male or female) so I wouldn't put much weight in the opinion of anyone who makes brash, unfounded claims like that.
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J.D. Hall
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Meerkat wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....


Anybody who has been around here awhile knows you aren't going to get any argument from me about the joys of reciprocity.


cool

To be honest, I've never been with someone who wasn't interested in reciprocity, thank God.

I do take an issue with the orgasm "gap" thingy. Unless they're tremendous actors, I'd say all of the ladies with whom I enjoyed a relationship usually, uhm, come out ahead on the Big O scoreboard. Not bragging (well, a little), but I've always tried to please my partners. Maybe that's the diff.
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Elias Någonsson
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I'll take this chance to link one of the best songs ever.



If this was something men did
It would be
Such a big thing in pornography
You would see
Girls sucking out the last drop of blood from a dripping dick
Painting lips red like lipstick

So eat me
In the name of equality
Not gonna ask if you're into it
Just wanna know if you swallow or spit
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mortego
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I like to do this to my partner & she seems to enjoy iy but it's never the first thing I do, she likes it be later after touching & groping...
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Lynette
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penfy wrote:
Quote:
I’m also not advocating for anyone to do anything they don’t want to do in bed.


I don't think she really understands what the word "mandatory" means in regards to her article title.


It is clearly meant to be a "shock" title to kick start the conversation.

Especially when she starts out making it clear this article was written in response to the very public comments of a famous man on a radio show.


Quote:
During the exchange, he not only enthusiastically acknowledges, but also justifies never going down on his wife because he’s “the king.” A noteworthy moment is when Khaled fails to notice any glaring inconsistencies with the fact that he refuses to go tongue-fu diving but expects her to because there are “different standards for men.”



She also claims...

Quote:

Quote:
#NotAllWomen have trouble achieving orgasms. Only one group of women do: the ones who sleep with men.


This is just incorrect. I've seen letters from women on advice/agony Aunt type letters pages frequently where they've spoken about not being able to achieve orgasms either with or without a partner (male or female) so I wouldn't put much weight in the opinion of anyone who makes brash, unfounded claims like that.


Again you are ignoring her follow up to her attention getting line.


Quote:
One recent study that looked at 52,000 adults found that 80 per cent of straight women and 91 per cent of lesbian women can reach orgasm through a golden trio of genital stimulation, deep kissing and oral sex,


Yes there are some women who really cannot achieve orgasms at all, but they are a minority.


And yes it is possible for women to enjoy sex even when they do not climax.


But honestly... far too many women think they are part of that tiny minority who literally cannnot, merely because they have not had partners who were genuinely interested in putting in the time and creativity to figure out how to make it happen for them.



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George Haberberger
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Meerkat wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....


Anybody who has been around here awhile knows you aren't going to get any argument from me about the joys of reciprocity.


There is a consent issue, of course. My wife wasn't always ready for me to head downtown, it took years.

It was probably her Catholic upbringing.
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Kevin Salch
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Yeah, it's sad how many couples there seem to be out there who don't have mutually good sex. I really don't get it. It may be that we have seen sex as "conquest" or as "gift" - The statement, "I'm gonna get me some, or the withholding of sex come to mind.

Sex should ideally be a mutually pleasurable and satisfying experience. But it shouldn't be about keeping score.

But hey, maybe my attitude is slanted as I'm a fan of co-op games.

The biggest key(for both parties) is cleanliness.
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George Haberberger
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costguy wrote:
Yeah, it's sad how many couples there seem to be out there who don't have mutually good sex. I really don't get it. It may be that we have seen sex as "conquest" or as "gift" - The statement, "I'm gonna get me some, or the withholding of sex come to mind.

Sex should ideally be a mutually pleasurable and satisfying experience. But it shouldn't be about keeping score.

But hey, maybe my attitude is slanted as I'm a fan of co-op games.

The biggest key(for both parties) is cleanliness.


Anti-depressants can really destroy a libido, as can having depression. Stress can destroy the libido, too.

Duty sex, because of a missing libido, may not be very much fun.
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Kevin Salch
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GeorgeHa wrote:
costguy wrote:
Yeah, it's sad how many couples there seem to be out there who don't have mutually good sex. I really don't get it. It may be that we have seen sex as "conquest" or as "gift" - The statement, "I'm gonna get me some, or the withholding of sex come to mind.

Sex should ideally be a mutually pleasurable and satisfying experience. But it shouldn't be about keeping score.

But hey, maybe my attitude is slanted as I'm a fan of co-op games.

The biggest key(for both parties) is cleanliness.


Anti-depressants can really destroy a libido, as can having depression. Stress can destroy the libido, too.

Duty sex, because of a missing libido, may not be very much fun.


Yeah, I was not putting down anyone with physical/mental issues. (Well except those who somehow think oral is "un-fun" or "not-masculine" or whatever excuse.

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James Myers
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If your partner doesn't do oral, dump them.*

yeah yeah there are occasional exceptions
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James Myers
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remorseless1 wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....


Anybody who has been around here awhile knows you aren't going to get any argument from me about the joys of reciprocity.


cool

To be honest, I've never been with someone who wasn't interested in reciprocity, thank God.


I have, it sucks.

except it doesn't, wooooooooooooooooooo
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Lynette
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Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
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GeorgeHa wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Who knew I was such a strong feminist since I was 16?

But I am also interested in, uhm, reciprocation....


Anybody who has been around here awhile knows you aren't going to get any argument from me about the joys of reciprocity.


There is a consent issue, of course. My wife wasn't always ready for me to head downtown, it took years.

It was probably her Catholic upbringing.


Possibly...

I don't know your wife... but for me the real issue is born of the never ending cultural pressures about beauty and smell bombarding women day in and day out.


As much as I enjoy having a man go down on me, honestly I was really only comfortable with 2 of my lovers doing so and it took time for me to get really comfortable with them.


I can know my face looks pretty and my general body smells nice, but it is really hard to not stress out about a place I have little control over and no real way to know it is actually attractive and pleasent smelling.


Several women I know only will let their partners go down on them right after showers... and some who loved oral sex when young no longer feel comfortable recieving it as they hit middle age or after having kids.


None of this has been helped by the fact that we almost all have heard some men say at some point they really don't like it and only do because it is expected.


Even though the article says it should be mandatory... the reality for most women is, we generally are not comfortable with anything sexual we think men aren't enjoying doing with us.

Edit PS: And men aren't very good at faking it... so if they are not really enjoying something, we usually know.

About the 3rd time you ask me if I am close yet in under 5 minutes ... it is time to just stop because at that point you have made me so stressed it isn't likely to happen at all.

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Elias Någonsson
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Terwox wrote:
If your partner doesn't do oral, dump them.*

yeah yeah there are occasional exceptions


Tbh there's plenty of exceptions. I don't mind either way, if a relationship works well then sex overall might not be that crucial, as long as there's plenty of other intimacy.
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Andrew J
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Meerkat wrote:
None of this has been helped by the fact that we almost all have heard some men say at some point they really don't like it and only do because it is expected.

Even though the article says it should be mandatory... the reality for most women is, we generally are not comfortable with anything sexual we think men aren't enjoying doing with us.

Edit PS: And men aren't very good at faking it... so if they are not really enjoying something, we usually know.

About the 3 time you ask me if I am close yet in under 5 minutes ... it is time to just stop because at that point you have made me so stressed it isn't likely to happen at all.


Yay! More proof for my wife of how awesome I am!

'cuz I love it.

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Meerkat wrote:
About the 3rd time you ask me if I am close yet in under 5 minutes ... it is time to just stop because at that point you have made me so stressed it isn't likely to happen at all.


Wait. So you're saying if I keep saying "Please hurry up, I'm getting super bored!" that's bad?
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Carl Parsons
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My wife was definitely having better sex than me when we were married. More of it, too.
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Lynette
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Terwox wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
About the 3rd time you ask me if I am close yet in under 5 minutes ... it is time to just stop because at that point you have made me so stressed it isn't likely to happen at all.


Wait. So you're saying if I keep saying "Please hurry up, I'm getting super bored!" that's bad?


Not as bad as if you ask if I mind if you turn on the tv while I am blowing you.






Spoiler (click to reveal)
Why yes I did have an exe boyfriend ask me that once... and he is an exe for a reason.

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Mac Mcleod
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Meerkat wrote:
penfy wrote:
Quote:
I’m also not advocating for anyone to do anything they don’t want to do in bed.


I don't think she really understands what the word "mandatory" means in regards to her article title.


It is clearly meant to be a "shock" title to kick start the conversation.

Especially when she starts out making it clear this article was written in response to the very public comments of a famous man on a radio show.


Quote:
During the exchange, he not only enthusiastically acknowledges, but also justifies never going down on his wife because he’s “the king.” A noteworthy moment is when Khaled fails to notice any glaring inconsistencies with the fact that he refuses to go tongue-fu diving but expects her to because there are “different standards for men.”



She also claims...

Quote:

Quote:
#NotAllWomen have trouble achieving orgasms. Only one group of women do: the ones who sleep with men.


This is just incorrect. I've seen letters from women on advice/agony Aunt type letters pages frequently where they've spoken about not being able to achieve orgasms either with or without a partner (male or female) so I wouldn't put much weight in the opinion of anyone who makes brash, unfounded claims like that.


Again you are ignoring her follow up to her attention getting line.


Quote:
One recent study that looked at 52,000 adults found that 80 per cent of straight women and 91 per cent of lesbian women can reach orgasm through a golden trio of genital stimulation, deep kissing and oral sex,


Yes there are some women who really cannot achieve orgasms at all, but they are a minority.


And yes it is possible for women to enjoy sex even when they do not climax.


But honestly... far too many women think they are part of that tiny minority who literally cannnot, merely because they have not had partners who were genuinely interested in putting in the time and creativity to figure out how to make it happen for them.





The golden "trio" is missing a huge 4th aspect. Verbal praise an expressions of desire.

Almost all women I've known had huge emotional holes to fill and serious bad self image problems to reverse. Which meant they couldn't relax and couldn't stop having negative thoughts which meant problems with orgasm. Love them and need them with out expecting immediate gratification. It helps a lot.

If it's for immediate gratification or quid pro quo, it doesn't work.

Once they believe you, and then believe they are desirable, then great things are possible.

Women are capable of many orgasms per hour.


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Anatoly
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Meerkat wrote:
penfy wrote:

I don't think she really understands what the word "mandatory" means in regards to her article title.


It is clearly meant to be a "shock" title to kick start the conversation.

penfy wrote:

#NotAllWomen have trouble achieving orgasms. Only one group of women do: the ones who sleep with men.



And that is why I did not read the article.

Why is it deemed necessary and accepted to use trollish titles and inflamatory rhetoric to "kick start the conversation"?! Is that the culture now? Is that only acceptable if the men are the ones being criticized? Was this really the best article you could find on this?

Anyway... we are here for sex.

This is a very common relationship communication issue. It certanly was an issue in my relationships. That is: couples need to have serious and honest conversation about sex. Especially critical is that expectations are made clear by both sides of the tryst. Another mistake that we frequently made was not doing so regularly. Expectations and attitudes change and both of us feel nervous to bring it up because we might sound ungrateful or critical.

Another thing that really helps is actually scheduling the sex time. Yes, it really does at first feels like making something special into a routine. But the hard truth is: In today's busy world of jobs and kids spontaneity is simply not feasable.
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J.D. Hall
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Agree 100% with Lotana -- communication is a key.

But so is trust, real affection, and respect. These issues tend to be at the root of almost every relationship issue/problem. Honest communication because you trust and respect and care for your partner solves many woes, or at least reduces the chance for divorce.

Okay, enough of being serious. The real reason I always chew on the muffin is simple: you can't knock 'em up with spit.

And Lynette? I would never ask to turn on the TV. Maybe rest my beer on top of your head.... cool
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maxo-texas wrote:
Almost all women I've known had huge emotional holes to fill and serious bad self image problems to reverse. Which meant they couldn't relax and couldn't stop having negative thoughts which meant problems with orgasm. Love them and need them with out expecting immediate gratification. It helps a lot.


Just because I basically only date other people with depression doesn't mean that all women are depressed. Most aren't, despite my experience.
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Andrew J
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So that thread on third parties can go on for days yet this one is already sputtering out? No wonder so many women have a hard time achieving orgasm.

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