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War Room» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Which units to buy? rss

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Kilian Lydian
Germany
Munich
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Since I don't want to start playing and buying units randomly, I wanted to fiddle around a little and see which buys look advantageous.
And also, if I should buy tanks …

Edit:
Quote:

Overall conclusions so far:

- Repricing the artillery (and changing the FA rule) was necessary. Germany could've bought 12 artillery and have 4 oil left for bidding.

- Since OSR are the most resources you have and there are no other units that cost more OSR than other resources (or even equal apart from ships), you are going to buy infantry (or civilian goods)

- Buying a mix of units in order to get FA can go both ways, but if you want to kill off tanks, FA is essential. Without FA you need 18 dice to kill a tank in defensive stance, with FA only 9 dice.

- Since you can't exchange resources freely, it is difficult to stack up sufficient infantry or artillery beyond what can be killed by 30 dice (unless alternatively buying art and inf each round), but it can be done with tanks

- Don't avoid buying tanks over artillery if you have oil left (unless you monostack artillery)

- If you ignore turn order bidding, planes and ships, go tank heavy.

- If you need your oil for other things, only buy tanks for FA if you face a lot of tanks.

- You don't need FA to kill infantry and artillery sufficiently. So you can do without if you don't face large mono stacks of inf/rtl.

- Trading doesn't help you with stacking more tanks, since you need more Iron and Oil. You could trade accordingly over 2 rounds if you wanted to, though.

- Monostacks don't work as well anymore, because with the new FA rule, you only need 2 types of units to gain FA against monostacks, while also negating 1 color to them.


BUT
I don't know how practical they are (and boring), but mono stacks are still best (especially if you mix them with a unit of each type to negate FA) and leave you oil for turn order bidding.


Caveat:
I guess Germany would have to fight something like 1-2 battles in the west and 3-4 battles in the east, thus the battles would be even smaller. And consequently so many possible combinations …

Also, another factor is missing, Turn Order. If it is as important as it sounds, you'll have even less oil. Indeed, G 6 – I 3 – J 7 vs. UK 5 (7) – US 8 (10) – R 6 (8) (with trade) Oil per side don't permit much in the first place, therefore whether to choose tanks, planes, ships or turn order is the important question.
→ Whatever is left in OSR and Iron just buy art and inf.


So I took Germany and its income, and tried to buy combinations of units, once without a tank, once with 2 tanks

Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19

In [ ] are the results if FA weren't used


Example 1

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
7 artillery

Costs: 19 OSR 14 Iron 0 Oil
Rest: 1 Iron 4 Oil

vs.

2 arm
4 rtl
6 inf

Cost: 18 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR 4 Oil

6 inf 7 rtl 26 dice vs. 6 inf 4 rtl 2 arm 28 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, [2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white] vs 9 1/3yellow, 7 blue, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
6 dead inf, 5 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 3 dead rtl 2 dead arm [6 dead inf 4 dead rtl 2 dead arm]

Surviving: 2 rtl vs. 1 rtl [nothing]


def tanks
6 inf 7 rtl 26 dice vs. 6 inf 4 rtl 2 arm 24 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, [2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white] vs 8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white
6 dead inf, <5 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 3 dead rtl 1 dead arm [6 dead inf 4 dead rtl 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >2 rtl vs. 1 rtl, 1 arm [nothing]



Example 2

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

5 inf
7 artillery
1 ftr

Costs: 18 OSR 15 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR 2 Oil

vs

2 arm
3 rtl
6 inf
1 ftr

Costs: 18 OSR 11 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR 1 Iron 2 Oil


ftr cancel each other out

5 inf 7 rtl 24/19 dice vs. 6 inf 3 rtl 2 arm 26 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green, [2 black, 2 white] vs 8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
5 dead inf, 5 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 3 dead rtl 2 dead arm

Surviving: 2 rtl vs. nothing


def tanks

5 inf 7 rtl 26 dice vs. 6 inf 4 rtl 2 arm 22 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green, [2 black, 2 white] vs. 7 1/3 yellow, 5 ½ blue, 1 5/6 black, 1 5/6 white
6 dead inf, 4 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 3 dead rtl 1 dead arm [6 dead inf 4 dead rtl 2 dead arm]

Surviving: 3 rtl vs. 1 art, 1 arm [nothing]



Example 3

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
3 ftr

Costs: 24 OSR 5 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 4 iron

vs.

2 arm
3 rtl
6 inf
2 ftr

Costs: 19 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 0


ftr + art in aa stance shot down 2 ftr each

10 inf 1 rtl 1 ftr 22 dice vs. 6 inf 3 rtl 2 arm 23 dice

7 1/3 yellow, 5 ½ blue, 3 2/3 green, [1 5/6 black, 1 5/6 white] vs 7 2/3 yellow, 5 ¾ blue, 1 11/12 black, 1 11/12 white
<10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 2 ½ dead rtl 1 2/3 dead arm [6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >0 Inf, 1 ftr vs. ½ art, 1/3 arm [nothing]


def arm [→ 1 aa art back to ground]

10 inf 1 rtl 1 ftr 22 dice vs. 6 inf 3 rtl 2 arm 20 dice

7 1/3 yellow, 5 ½ blue, 3 2/3 green, [1 5/6 black, 1 5/6 white] vs 6 2/3 yellow, 5 blue, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white
>8 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs 6 dead inf 2 ½ dead rtl 1 dead arm [6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: <2 Inf, 1 ftr vs. ½ art, 1 arm [nothing]


def inf
4 yellow, 3 blue, 2 green, [1 black, 1 white] vs 7 2/3 yellow, 5 ¾ blue, 1 11/12 black, 1 11/12 white
<6 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 4 dead inf, 1 dead 1 dam rtl, 1 dead arm [4 dead inf, 1 dead 1 dam art, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >4 inf, 1 ftr vs. 2 inf, 1 + 1 dam art, 1 arm [2 inf, 1 + 1 dam art]



Example 4

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
3 ftr

Costs: 24 OSR 5 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 4 iron

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf


Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


2 rtl 2 arm in aa stance shot down 1 ftr

10 inf 1 rtl 2 ftr 28 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def arm 28 dice

9 1/3 yellow, 7 blue, 4 2/3 green, [2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white] vs. 9 1/3 yellow, 7, 4 2/3 blue, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 9 dead inf, 3 dead 1 dam rtl, 1 dead 1 dam arm [9 dead inf, 4 dead rtl, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: 2 ftr vs. 1 dam rtl, 1 dam arm [nothing]




Example 5

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
7 artillery

Costs: 19 OSR 14 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 1 Iron 2 Oil

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf

Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


6 inf 7 rtl 26 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def arm 30 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, [2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white] vs 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, <6 dead rtl vs <9 dead inf 3 dead rtl 1 dead arm [9 dead inf, 4 dead art, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >1 art vs. >0 Inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm [nothing]




Conclusion:

Caveat: Theoretical exercise, big battles


FA and higher priced artillery work pretty well for fixing the tank. [Will check mono stacks later]
You are still just a little better with buying just two types of units (it can also be the other way, but on average it looks like that), but it should be OK during normal play.
(i.e. ftf and no digital helpers. With pbem or something like that where people can think and calculate as long as they want it might be different)

If you have 2+ arm: As soon as you throw enough dice to put arm in defensive stance, do it
Putting inf into defensive stance is a bad idea, unless you have a lot of them and still throw close to 30 dice.

A tank for FA is Ok. But forces including a few of them look like performing worse than forces without them.
 
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Kilian Lydian
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Same thing, but buy 1 tank to offset FA


Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19


Example 6

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
6 art
1 arm

Cost 19 OSR, 14 Iron, 1 Oil
Rest 1 Iron, 3 Oil

vs.


2 arm
4 rtl
6 inf

Cost: 18 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest 1 OSR 4 Oil

6 inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm 28 dice vs. 6 inf, 4 rtl, 2 arm 28 dice
9 1/3 yellow, 7 blue, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white vs. 9 1/3 yellow , 7 blue, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
6 dead inf, 5 dead art, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 4 dead art, 2 dead arm [def. arm is worse]

Surviving: 1 rtl vs. nothing



Example 7

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
6 art
1 arm

Cost 19 OSR, 14 Iron, 1 Oil
Rest 1 Iron, 3 Oil


vs.


Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf


Cost: 24 OSR,12 Iron, 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


6 inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm 28 dice vs. 9 inf, 4 rtl, 2 def arm 30 dice

9 1/3 yellow, 7 blue, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, <6 dead art, 1 dead arm vs. 9 dead inf, 4 dead art, 2 dead arm

Surviving: >0 rtl vs. nothing



Example 8

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
1 arm
2 ftr

Cost: 24 OSR 6 Iron 5 Oil
Rest: 3 iron, 1 Oil

vs.

2 arm
3 rtl
6 inf
2 ftr

Cost: 19 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil
Rest: nothing

2 ftr each cancel each other out

10 inf, 1 art, 1 arm 26 dice vs. 6 inf, 3 art, 2 arm 26 dice
8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white vs. 8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
10 dead inf, 1 dead art, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead art, 2 dead arm [def. arm is worse]

Surviving: nothing vs. nothing



Example 9

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
1 arm
2 ftr

Cost: 24 OSR 6 Iron 5 Oil
Rest: 3 iron, 1 Oil

vs.


Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf

Cost: 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


4 art + 2 tank in aa stance shot down <2 ftr, but let's say they did

10 inf, 1 art, 1 arm 26 dice vs. 9 inf, 4 rtl, 2 def arm 26 dice
8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white vs. 8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
10 dead inf, 1 dead art, 1 dead arm vs. 9 dead inf, 4 dead art, 2 dead arm


Surviving: nothing vs. nothing




Conclusion:

Caveat: Theoretical exercise, big battles

You perform pretty much on par with 1 tank, depends on the match up, but a little worse on average.
BUT
If you want/need to (reliably) kill more than 1 defensive tank, you need those blacks and whites, 30 dice are only 5 green on average. Even with black + white, 3 defensive tanks need good timing with the whites.
 
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Kilian Lydian
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Ok, the same thing again, but letting a tank heavy buy battle multi stacks and then some others

Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19

In [ ] are the results if FA weren't used


Example 10

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf

Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, [2 ½ black, 2 ½ white] vs 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
5 dead inf, <5 dead arm vs 9 dead inf <4 dead rtl 1 dead 1 dam arm [9 dead inf, 4 dead art, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: 1inf, >1 arm vs. >0 rtl, 1 dam arm [nothing]


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def arm 30 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green, [2 black, 2 white] vs 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, 3 dead arm vs 8 dead inf 3 dead rtl 1 dead arm [9 dead inf, <4 dead art, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 1 Inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm [>nothing]



Example 11

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
7 artillery

Costs: 19 OSR 14 Iron 0 Oil
Rest: 1 Iron 4 Oil

6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 7 rtl 26 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs 8 2/3 yellow, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
4 dead inf, <4 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, < 6 dead art

Surviving: 2 inf, >2 arm vs. > 1 rtl


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 6 inf 7 rtl 26 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white vs 8 2/3 yellow, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
6 dead inf, >2 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, <5 dead rtl

Surviving: < 4 arm vs. >1 rtl




Example 12

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
6 art
1 arm

Cost 19 OSR, 14 Iron, 1 Oil
Rest 1 Iron, 3 Oil


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm 28 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, [2 ½ black, 2 ½ white] vs. 9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
5 dead inf, 4 dead arm vs. 5 dead inf, <4 dead rtl, 1 dead arm [6 dead inf, <6 dead rtl, 1 dead arm]

Surviving: 1 inf, 2 arm vs. >2 rtl [>1 rtl]


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 6 inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm 28 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green, [2 black, 2 white] vs 9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
6 dead inf, <3 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm [6 dead inf, <5 dead rtl, 1 dead arm]

Surviving: >3 arm vs. 3 rtl [>1 rtl]




Example 13

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
1 arm
2 ftr

Cost: 24 OSR 6 Iron 5 Oil
Rest: 3 iron, 1 Oil

6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 8 inf + 2 def inf, 1 artillery, 1 arm, 2 ftr 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, [2 ½ black, 2 ½ white] vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
5 dead inf, >4 dead arm vs. 9 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm [10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm]

Surviving: 1 inf, < 2 arm vs. 1 inf, 2 ftr [2 ftr]


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. vs. 10 def inf, 1 artillery, 1 arm, 1 ftr 29 dice

1 ftr shoot down

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green, [2 black, 2 white] vs 9 2/3 yellow, 4 5/6 green, 2 5/12 black, 2 5/12 white
6 dead inf, 3 dead arm vs. 8 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm [10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm]

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 2 inf, 1 ftr [1 ftr]




Example 14

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

10 inf
1 artillery
3 ftr

Costs: 24 OSR 5 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 4 iron


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 1 def inf + 9 inf, 1 rtl, 3 ftr 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
5 dead inf, >4 dead arm vs. 10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl

Surviving: 1 inf, < 2 arm vs. 3 ftr]


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 10 inf, 1 rtl, 2 ftr 28 dice
1 ftr shot down

8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white vs 9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white
6 dead inf, >2 dead arm vs. 10 dead inf, 1 dead rtl

Surviving: <4 arm vs. 2 ftr





Conclusion:

Caveat: Theoretical exercise, big battles


Artillery aren't good tank killers

I've written:
Tanks in little numbers are a bad buy. Forces including only a few of them look like performing worse than forces without them.

BUT
If you want to kill of more than 1-2 (defensive) tanks you need FA. So adding one for that purpose makes sense if you face larger tank stacks.
AND
Since tanks cost all three resource types, it is easier than with artillery or infantry, to spend all your resources, thus maximizing firepower and stacking the tanks up to a point where each extra tank won't be destroyed anymore. So if you buy tanks, go tank heavy.

STILL
Tanks have a hard time killing planes, especially bombers (you'd need 9 defensive tanks on average). If you buy a lot of tanks, you won't have enough Iron and/or oil to buy artillery and/or planes to do so
 
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Kilian Lydian
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With the 6 inf 6 arm stack you can use up almost all of your resources nicely and the tanks can't be all killed, so they perform quite well.

Let's see how that holds up against other options to use as many resources as possible

Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19


Example 15

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 3 Iron for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil

9 inf
3 artillery
3 ftr

Costs: 24 OSR 9 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 0


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 3 def inf 6 inf 3 rtl 3 ftr 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
5 dead inf, >4 dead arm vs. 9 dead inf, 3 dead rtl

Surviving: 1 inf, < 2 arm vs. 3 ftr


1 ftr shoot down by 6 def tanks

6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 3 def inf 6 inf 3 rtl 3 ftr 30 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, 3 dead arm vs. < 6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 2 ftr





Example 16

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 2 Oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

9 inf
2 artillery
4 arm

Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 0


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 8 def + 1 inf 2 rtl 4 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
5 dead inf, >4 dead arm arm vs. 5 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 2 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 1 inf, <2 arm vs. 4 inf, 1 arm + 1 dam arm


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 9 inf 2 rtl 4 def arm 30 dice
10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green vs. 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white

5 dead inf, >4 dead arm arm vs. 9 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 1 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 1 inf, <2 arm vs. 2 arm + 1 dam arm


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 8 def + 1 inf 2 rtl 4 arm 30 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green vs 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, 3 dead arm arm vs. 4 dead + 1 dam inf, 2 dead rtl, 2 dead arm

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 5 inf, 2 arm


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 9 inf 2 rtl 4 def arm 30 dice

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green vs 10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
6 dead inf, 3 dead arm vs. 8 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 3 arm



Example 17

Spoiler (click to reveal)

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

5 inf
6 artillery
1 arm
1 ftr

Costs: 18 OSR 15 Iron 3 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR 1 Oil


6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice vs. 5 inf 6 rtl 1 arm 1 ftr 29 dice
10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green vs. 9 2/3 yellow, 4 5/6 green, 2 5/12 black, 2 5/12 white

5 dead inf, >4 dead arm arm vs. 4 dead inf, <4 dead rtl, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 1 inf, <2 arm vs. >2 rtl, 1 ftr


6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice vs. 5 inf 6 rtl 1 arm 26 dice
1 ftr shot down

8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green vs. 8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white
6 dead inf, >3 dead arm vs. 5 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm

Surviving: <3 arm vs. 3 rtl





Conclusion:

Caveat: Theoretical exercise, big battles

Using all your resources is usually better than leaving some chunk (1-4 Iron/Oil) unused.
But, not having an evenly distributed force is more important.
Try to get FA and then stack up on 1 or 2 types enough that they can't be killed off anymore, even with 30 dice. This is more easy when stacking up tanks.

Again, for killing of 3+ tanks, you need blacks + whites
 
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Kilian Lydian
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To pull off buying mono stacks is not as easy, you would have to do something like this

Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19

In [ ] are the results if FA weren't used


Example 18

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Turn 1

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

7 artillery
1 ftr

Costs: 8 OSR 15 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 11 OSR 2 Oil

Turn 2

Trade 2 Oil for 5 OSR

→ 35 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

17 Inf
1 ftr

Costs: 35 OSR 1 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 11 Iron 2 Oil

Turn 3

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 26 Iron 4 Oil

13 artillery

Costs: 13 OSR 15 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 6 OSR 2 Oil

Turn 4

Trade 2 Oil for 5 OSR

→ 30 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil

15 Inf [→ average 16 inf]

Cost: 30 OSR
Rest: 12 Iron 4 Oil


vs.

Turn 1-4

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf


Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil


13 rtl 26 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def. arm 30 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 6 ½ blue, 4 1/3 green, [2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white] vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
<6 dead rtl vs <9 dead inf 3 dead rtl 1 dead arm [9 dead inf, 4 dead rtl, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >7 rtl vs. >0 Inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm [nothing]


16 inf 32 dice vs. 9 inf 4 rtl 2 def arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, [2 ½ black, 2 ½ white] vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
<13 dead inf vs 9 dead inf 4 dead rtl 1 dead 1 dam arm [9 dead inf, 4 dead rtl, 2 dead arm]

Surviving: >3 inf vs. 1 dam arm [nothing]


14 def + 2 off inf → 18 dice
6 yellow, 4 ½ blue, 3 green, [1 ½ black, 1 ½ white] vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
8 dead inf vs 6 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 1 dead arm [6 dead inf, 3 dead art, 1 dead arm]

Surviving: 8 inf vs. 3 inf, 2 rtl, 1 arm [1 rtl, 1 arm]






Ok, now that isn't really practical, and you probably will throw your units into more than one battle. So let's try 2 smaller battles


Example 19

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
7 artillery

Costs: 19 OSR 14 Iron 0 Oil
Rest: 1 Iron 4 Oil

vs.

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

2 arm
4 rtl
9 inf


Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 2 Oil
Rest: 2 Oil

Split into 6 inf + 7 rtl vs. 4 inf, 2 rtl, 1 arm + 5 inf, 2 rtl, 1 arm

6 inf 12 dice vs. 4 inf, 2 rtl, 1 def arm 14 dice

4 yellow, 3 blue, 2 green vs. 4 2/3 yellow, 3 ½ blue, 2 1/3 green, 1 1/6 black, 1 1/6 white
<6 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 4 dead inf, 2 + 2 dam dead rtl, 1 dam arm

Surviving: >0 inf vs. 1 dam rtl, 1 dam arm


7 rtl 14 dice vs. 5 inf, 2 rtl, 1 def arm 16 dice

4 2/3 yellow, 3 ½ blue, 2 1/3 green vs. 5 1/3 yellow, 4 blue, 1 1/3 black, 1 1/3 white
3 dead rtl vs. < 5 dead inf, > 1 dead 1 dam rtl, > 1 dam arm

Surviving: 4 rtl vs. > 0 inf, < 1 dam rtl, < 1 dam arm



Example 20

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

6 inf
7 artillery

Costs:19 OSR 14 Iron 0 Oil
Rest: 1 Iron 4 Oil

vs

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


Split into 6 inf + 7 rtl vs. 3 inf, 3 arm + 3 inf, 3 arm

6 inf 12 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

4 yellow, 2 green, vs. 6 yellow, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
6 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: nothing vs. 2 arm


6 inf 12 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

4 yellow, 2 green vs. 4 yellow, 1 black, 1 white
5 dead inf, vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dam arm

Surviving: 1 inf vs. 2 + 1 dam arm


7 rtl 14 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

4 2/3 yellow, 2 1/3 green vs. 4 ½ blue, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
3 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 4 rtl vs. 2 arm


7 rtl 14 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

4 2/3 yellow, 2 1/3 green vs. 3 blue, 1 black, 1 white
2 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, > 1 dam arm

Surviving: 5 rtl vs. 2 + < 1 dam arm


Split into 6 inf + 7 rtl vs. 6 inf + 6 arm

7 rtl 14 dice vs 6 arm 24 dice

2 1/3 green, 1 1/6 black, 1 1/6 white vs. 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white
> 4 dead rtl vs. 2 dead arm

Surviving: < 3 rtl vs. 4 arm


7 rtl 14 dice vs 6 def arm 12 dice

2 1/3 green, 1 1/6 black, 1 1/6 white vs. 3 blue, 1 black, 1 white
2 dead rtl vs. 1 dead arm

Surviving: 5 rtl vs. 5 arm



Example 21

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 iron

→ 19 OSR 15 Iron 4 Oil

5 inf
6 artillery
2 ftr

Costs:18 OSR 14 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR 1 Iron

vs

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


Split into 5 inf 1 ftr + 6 rtl 1 ftr vs. 3 inf, 3 arm + 3 inf, 3 arm

5 inf 1 ftr 13 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

4 1/3 yellow, 2 1/6 green vs. 6 yellow, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
5 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 1 ftr vs. 2 arm


5 inf 1 ftr 13 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

4 1/3 yellow, 2 1/6 green vs. 4 yellow, 1 black, 1 white
5 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, > 1 dam arm

Surviving: 1 ftr vs. < 3 arm


6 rtl 1 ftr 15 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

5 yellow, 2 ½ green vs. 4 ½ blue, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
3 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 3 rtl, 1 ftr vs. 2 arm


6 rtl 1 ftr 16 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

5 yellow, 2 ½ green vs. 3 blue, 1 black, 1 white
2 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, >1 dam arm

Surviving: 4 rtl, 1 ftr vs. 2 + < 1 dam arm



Example 22

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

2 bom
4 rtl
9 inf


Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 0

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR




Split into 9 inf + 4 rtl, 2 bom vs. 3 inf, 3 arm + 3 inf, 3 arm

9 inf 18 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

6 yellow, 3 green vs. 6 yellow, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
7 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 2 inf vs. 1 + 1 dam arm


9 inf 18 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

6 yellow, 3 green vs. 4 yellow, 1 black, 1 white
5 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 4 inf vs. 2 arm


4 rtl + 2 bom 16 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 arm 18 dice

5 1/3 yellow, 2 2/3 green vs. 4 ½ blue, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white
3 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 1 rtl, 2 bom vs. 2 arm


4 rtl , 2 bom 16 dice vs. 3 inf, 3 def arm 12 dice

5 1/3 yellow, 2 2/3 green vs. 3 blue, 1 black, 1 white
2 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, <1 dead arm

Surviving: 2 rtl, 2 bom vs. >2 arm



Split into 9 inf + 4 rtl 2 bom vs. 6 inf + 6 arm


9 inf 18 dice vs. 6 arm 24 dice

6 yellow, 3 green, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 2 black
9 dead inf vs. > 2 dead arm

Surviving: nothing vs. < 4 arm


4 rtl, 2 bom 16 dice vs. 6 arm 24 dice

2 2/3 green, 1 1/3 black, 1 1/3 white vs. 6 blue, 2 black
4 dead rtl vs. 2 dead arm

Surviving: 2 bom vs. 4 arm


4 rtl, 2 bom 16 dice vs. 6 def arm 12 dice

2 2/3 green, 1 1/3 black, 1 1/3 white vs. 3 blue, 1 black
2 dead rtl vs. 1 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 2 rtl, 2 bom vs. 3 + 1 dam arm




Conclusion: Monostacks still rule (in big battles)

Caveat: Theoretical exercise, big battles, the whole thing isn't really practical?

Because you need OSR to spent your Iron and Oil, apart from turn order, it isn't really possible to get to the threshold where inf mono stacks work really well, be it in small battles or big battles (actually, best would be 30 def inf).
You can stack up artillery and tanks more efficiently, as the leftover OSR can be spent on Infantry, unlike left over Iron, which can't be spent unless for Civilian Goods.
You can stack up tanks almost in same numbers as artillery as the extra oil doesn't cost you another unit. And tanks in roughly same numbers as artillery are of course better. But can you afford to ignore turn order bidding?

If you save up and only buy inf one turn and other OSR-light units the next turn, then the monostacks can work.

In small battles (which I assume is what happens more anyway) it is difficult to get enough aa dice to shoot down airplanes if you don't have artillery or fighters and defensive tanks are difficult to kill without blacks and whites.


 
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Kilian Lydian
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So for the German resource combination 6 inf 6 arm looks like the big guy
- if you ignore turn order bidding
- if you don't want to resort to buying only infantry on one and then artillery on the next turn (which is per se the best buy, but boring and I don't know how practical)

Let's take that as the test and see what can beat it

Germany has

Oil 6
Iron 12
OSR 19


Example 23

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

2 bom
4 rtl
9 inf


Costs: 24 OSR 12 Iron 4 Oil
Rest: 0

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


5 + 4 def inf, 4 rtl, 2 bom 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
<9 dead inf, 4 dead rtl vs. 5 dead inf, > 4 dead arm

Surviving: 2 bom vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm


6 aa dice are 1 ½ hits against a bomber, so twice without and >4 dead arm

Surviving: 1 inf, >1 rtl vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm


7 + 2 def inf, 5 rtl, 1 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow 6 blue 4 green
7 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 2 inf, 2 rtl vs. 3 arm



Example 25

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 Iron

→ 19 OSR, 15 Iron, 4 Oil

6 inf
6 rtl
1 arm
1 ftr

Costs: 18 OSR 15 iron 3 oil
Rest: 1 OSR, 1 Oil

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


5 + 1 def inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm, 1 ftr 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue 5 green
6 dead inf, <4 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: >2 rtl, 1 ftr vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm



6 def tanks shoot down 1 ftr

6 inf, 6 rtl, 1 arm 28 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white vs. 8 yellow 6 blue 4 green
6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, <3 dead arm

Surviving: 3 rtl vs. >3 arm



Example 26

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 3 Iron

→ 19 OSR, 15 Iron, 4 Oil

6 inf
5 rtl
2 arm
1 ftr

Costs: 18 OSR 15 iron 4 oil
Rest: 1 OSR

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


6 inf, 5 rtl, 2 def arm, 1 ftr 29 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

9 2/3 yellow, 4 5/6 green, 2 5/12 black, 2 5/12 white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue 5 green
6 dead inf, <4 dead rtl, 1 dead + 1 dam arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: >1 rtl, 1 dam arm, 1 ftr vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm


6 def tanks shoot down 1 ftr

6 inf, 5 rtl, 2 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow 6 blue 4 green
6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 2 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, <3 dead arm

Surviving: 2 rtl vs. >3 arm


6 inf, 5 rtl, 2 def arm 26 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 4 1/3 green, 2 1/6 black, 2 1/6 white vs. 8 yellow 6 blue 4 green
6 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, <3 dead arm

Surviving: 3 rtl, 1 arm vs. >3 arm



Example 27:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

9 inf
3 rtl
3 arm

Costs: 24 OSR 12 iron 3 oil
Rest: 1 oil

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


9 inf, 3 rtl, 3 def arm 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue 5 green
9 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead +1 dam arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: 1 + 1 dam arm vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm


9 def inf, 3 rtl, 3 arm 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green
5 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 2 dead + 1 dam arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: 4 inf, 1 dam arm vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm


9 inf, 3 rtl, 3 def arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
8 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 1 inf, 2 arm vs. 3 arm


9 def inf, 3 rtl, 3 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow 6 blue 4 green
4 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 2 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 5 inf, 1 arm vs. 3 arm [if 2 arm > 5 inf]



Tough to beat
Let's try mono stacks from above


Example 28

Spoiler (click to reveal)

13 rtl vs. 26 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 4 1/3 green vs. 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
<6 dead rtl vs. 4 dead inf, 2 dead arm


Surviving: 7 rtl vs. 2 inf, 4 arm


13 rtl 26 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

8 2/3 yellow, 4 1/3 green vs. 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white
< 5 dead rtl vs. 6 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: > 8 rtl vs. 5 arm



16 inf 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green vs. 10 yellow, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
12 dead inf vs. 5 dead inf, 2 dead arm


Surviving: 4 inf vs. 1 inf, 4 arm


16 inf 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green vs. 8 yellow, 2 black, 2 white
10 dead inf vs. 6 dead inf, 1 dead arm

Surviving: 6 inf vs. 5 arm


16 def inf 16 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

5 1/3 yellow, 2 2/3 green vs. 10 yellow, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
7 dead inf vs. <3 dead inf, 1 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 9 inf vs. >3 inf, 4 + 1 dam arm


16 def inf 16 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

5 1/3 yellow, 2 2/3 green vs. 8 yellow, 2 black, 2 white
6 dead inf vs. 5 dead inf, <1 dead arm

Surviving: 10 inf vs. 1 Inf, >5 arm



Ok, so with the new FA rule, you only need 2 types of unit to gain FA against monostacks, all the while also negating 1 color. Will look at that separately, if artillery mono stacks + 1 other unit still rule (with the restrictions mentioned above)

What happened to the infantry?
Let's see in a post below
 
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Lydian, thanks for the very detailed breakdown! It's a very interesting read, yet I have to take issue with one of your statements regarding your initial conclusions:

"You are still just a little better with buying just two types of units..."


Out of all the single-round combat outcomes you've presented, I'd arguably declare that 5 out the 7 results leave the non-German forces with the statistical advantage to succeed in capturing/defending the territory when the battle commences for the next round. Matter of fact, in example 4 the German player will have exhaust a movement order just to re-embattle that territory with the aircraft that survived, and the German aircraft will not even be able to gain control of the conflicted territory just by themselves.

Although this will not always be the case, there will be many times over the game where a battle was initiated, and only the surviving units will be present in the next round's continuation of the embattled territory. In that context, resolving each of the outcomes fully as presented, the non-German forces has the greater odds to successfully destroy more (and likely all)remaining German units in the majority of your presented scenarios, thereby inflicting more economic value loss to the German side than back to the opponent in the subsequent battle rounds, in addition to successfully capturing or defending the territory location. Even more economic value loss is to be considered if the territory in question has a Stress Value or Resources. If the Germans were defending just a territory even worth 1 SV and lost it, that is another 5 resources the Germans will have to spend in order to stop the acquisition of the stress, as if left unchecked, it will negatively affect the playing nation's capabilities as the stress continues to build.

So if you are strictly and singularly focusing on the economical value costs from destroyed units within these presented scenarios (not even to the point of the embattled territory's final point of combat resolution, or not factoring the nations stress tolerances due to the units destroyed or territory captured) yes, I would agree within that limited context it appears the German army composition are more efficient in causing economic value loss at that single point in time. But embattled areas will continue to fight until one side wins, so the economic resource values lost in the first round of a battle will sometimes be swayed to the opponent's overall benefit by the time the battle is truly concluded.

So please continue to do your research and calculations, as I'm loving this type of statistical info that can e considered when buying units in the game, but I'd suggest for further determinations, resolve each scenario to combat completion (where one side is fully defeated) to attain a more accurate representation of each side's overall loss of economic value in given army compositions. I'd also be interested to see you apply your formulas and calculations for sea combat as well. Thanks!
 
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Kilian Lydian
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You are absolutely right.

The problem is, when factoring in worth of the territory, commands used etc. it is going to be a plethora of options. Which is actually a good thing game wise, just a statistician's nightmare.

So, since there will be some time until the game sits on my table, I'll try to figure out first, which force destroys most (efficient) and then see how to optimize this regarding staying power, commands etc.

Unfortunately, I don't know if later in the game due to less units you have commands to spare or if you use them on like 3 unit stacks instead of a few big ones. Thus, I'm not sure how to figure that in exactely, but I'm not there yet anyway.

I guess I should also let the different compositions fight it out till the end, since you never know for sure whether new units come in and I'll probably do that in the end with the most promising builds.
The problem is, though, that I weasled myself out by using < and > when only fractions of units survive, which is perfectly fine for the comparison present, but if I continued the battles I'd have to let 1/3 rtl with 2/3 of a dice fight each other and so on. Also the problem of correctly figuring in the white comes into play.
For one round you can just give a rough estimate, but to continue you'd need the precise probability.

And just a nitpick, both forces are technically "German", or at least what you could buy with the German resources.

Naval will need to wait, but since you only score 2 1/2 red with 30 dice, I'd guess that people will field diverse builds, or at least as diverse as their enemy, if battleships are present.
And secondly, since ships are so darn expensive (aprt from the sub) and cost a lot of oil, it is mostly a question of whether you can even afford some.
Japan and US I guess. UK? not so sure
 
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Kilian Lydian
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What happened to the infantry?


Theoretical example 1: How many inf would you need?

Spoiler (click to reveal)

18 def inf 18 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice
36 OSR vs. 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil

6 yellow, 3 green vs. 10 yellow, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
7 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead + 1 dam arm

Surviving: 11 inf vs. 3 inf, 4 + 1 dam arm

If you had brought 21 inf
→ vs. 3 dead + 1 dam inf, >1 dead arm (50% chance for a second dead tank, then the follow ups look much better for the inf)

If you had brought 24 inf, then it's a sweep
→ vs. 4 dead inf, 2 dead arm
[follow up: 4 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead + 1 dam arm → surviving: 11 inf vs. 2 + 1 dam arm]


18 def inf vs. vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice
36 OSR vs. 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil

6 yellow, 3 green vs. 8 yellow, 2 black, 2 white
6 dead inf vs. 6 dead inf, 1 dead arm → Inf performs better

[follow up (inf offensive, arm defensive): 4 dead inf vs. 2 dead arm → surviving: 8 inf vs. 3 arm]



Ok, so the infantry mono stack still kills efficiently and costs less resources (when judging by the 5:3:2 exchange rate)
But getting 36+ OSR together will only work when buying artillery and infantry alternately, and you need more infantry if you want to also succeed in the following rounds.
In this case you'd need 3 more, so 21 inf or 6 more for a sweep. When using the exchange rate, this is still cheaper compared to the 6 inf 6 arm.


Theoretical example 2: How many inf would you need with FA?

Spoiler (click to reveal)

12 def inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm 18 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice
26 OSR, 4 Iron, 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil

6 yellow, 3 green, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue, 5 green
5 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 3 dead inf, <3 dead arm → about equal, Inf maybe a little better


12 def inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm 18 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice
26 OSR, 4 Iron, 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil

6 yellow, 3 green, 1 ½ black, 1 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
4 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, <2 dead arm → Inf performs better



But next combat round looks different. No more FA, so this is not good.
 
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Kilian Lydian
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Taking the lessons from above into account


Example 29

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

11 inf
1 rtl
1 arm

Costs: 24 OSR 3 iron 1 oil
Rest: 9 iron 3 oil

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


11 def inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm 17 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

5 2/3 yellow, 2 5/6 green, 1 5/12 black, 1 5/12 white vs. 10 yellow 7 ½ blue, 5 green
5 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 3 dead inf, <3 dead arm

Surviving: 6 inf vs. 3 inf, >3arm


11 def inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm 17 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice
26 OSR, 4 Iron, 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil

5 2/3 yellow, 2 5/6 green, 1 5/12 black, 1 5/12 white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
4 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, >1 dead arm

Surviving: 7 inf vs. < 5 arm


→ kill ratio is ok, but you can't buy enough Inf to keep sufficient alive. Those 9 Iron and 3 oil should rather be units staying on the board
 
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Kilian Lydian
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Doing just that:


Example 30 (same as example 16)

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Trade 2 oil for 5 OSR

→ 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

9 inf
2 rtl
4 arm

Costs: 24 OSR 3 iron 1 Oil
Rest: 0

vs.

6 inf
6 tanks

Costs: 18 OSR 12 Iron 6 Oil
Rest: 1 OSR


8 def + 1 inf 2 rtl 4 arm 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green
5 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 2 dead arm + 1 dam arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: 4 inf, 1 arm + 1 dam arm vs. 1 inf, <2 arm

[subsequent round: 1 dead + 1 dam inf, 1 dead arm vs. 1 dead inf 1 dead arm → surviving: 2 + 1 dam inf, 1 arm vs. 1 arm]


9 inf 2 rtl 4 def arm 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm 30 dice
10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green

9 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 1 dead arm + 1 dam arm vs. 5 dead inf, >4 dead arm

Surviving: 2 arm + 1 dam arm vs. 1 inf, <2 arm


8 def + 1 inf 2 rtl 4 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
4 dead + 1 dam inf, 2 dead rtl, 2 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm arm

Surviving: 5 inf, 2 arm vs. 3 arm

[subsequent round: 2 dead inf vs. 1 dead arm (and other possibilities due to chosen stances)]


9 inf 2 rtl 4 def arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm 24 dice

10 yellow, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
8 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 3 arm vs. 3 arm



That's the best combination for one large battle so far.
 
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Overall conclusions so far:

- Repricing the artillery (and changing the FA rule) was necessary. Germany could've bought 12 artillery and have 4 oil left for bidding.

- Since OSR are the most resources you have and there are no other units that cost more OSR than other resources (or even equal apart from ships), you are going to buy infantry (or civilian goods)

- Buying a mix of units in order to get FA can go both ways, but if you want to kill off tanks, FA is essential. Without FA you need 18 dice to kill a tank in defensive stance, with FA only 9 dice.

- Since you can't exchange resources freely, it is difficult to stack up sufficient infantry or artillery beyond what can be killed by 30 dice (unless alternatively buying art and inf each round), but it can be done with tanks

- Don't avoid buying tanks over artillery if you have oil left (unless you monostack artillery)

- If you ignore turn order bidding, planes and ships, go tank heavy.

- If you need your oil for other things, only buy tanks for FA if you face a lot of tanks.

- You don't need FA to kill infantry and artillery sufficiently. So you can do without if you don't face large mono stacks of inf/rtl.

- Trading doesn't help you with stacking more tanks, since you need more Iron and Oil. You could trade accordingly over 2 rounds if you wanted to, though.

- Monostacks don't work as well anymore, because with the new FA rule, you only need 2 types of units to gain FA against monostacks, while also negating 1 color to them.


BUT
I don't know how practical they are (and boring), but mono stacks are still best (especially if you mix them with a unit of each type to negate FA) and leave you oil for turn order bidding.


Caveat:
I guess Germany would have to fight something like 1-2 battles in the west and 3-4 battles in the east, thus the battles would be even smaller. And consequently so many possible combinations …

Also, another factor is missing, Turn Order. If it is as important as it sounds, you'll have even less oil. Indeed, G 6 – I 3 – J 7 vs. UK 5 (7) – US 8 (10) – R 6 (8) (with trade) Oil per side don't permit much in the first place, therefore whether to choose tanks, planes, ships or turn order is the important question.
→ Whatever is left in OSR and Iron just buy art and inf.
 
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Kilian Lydian
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shoot, while working on the translation of the rules I saw that I had got FA slightly wrong, will edit accordingly

So monostacks don't work as well anymore, because with the new FA rule, you only need 2 types of units to gain FA against monostacks thus also negating 1 color to them.

Will mono stacks rule again, if you give them an accompanying unit?

Theoretical example 3 – artillery

Spoiler (click to reveal)

1 inf 12 rtl 1 arm 30 dice vs. 1 + 8 def inf, 2 rtl, 4 arm, 30 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron 1 Oil vs. 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
1 dead inf, 6 dead rtl 1 dead arm vs. 5 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 4 dead arm

Surviving: 6 rtl vs. 4 inf


1 inf 12 rtl 1 arm 30 dice vs. 9 inf, 2 rtl, 4 def arm, 30 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron 1 Oil vs. 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
1 dead inf, 6 dead rtl, 2 dead arm vs. 9 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 6 rtl vs. 1 arm

[follow up: 1 dead rtl vs. 1 dead arm]


1 inf 13 rtl 28 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm, 30 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
1 dead inf, 6 dead rtl vs. 5 dead inf, 4 dead arm

Surviving: 7 rtl vs. 1 inf, 2 arm


1 inf 13 rtl 28 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm, 24 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

9 1/3 yellow, 4 2/3 green, 2 1/3 black, 2 1/3 white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white
1 dead inf, 5 dead rtl vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 8 rtl vs. 3 arm


1 inf 12 rtl 1 arm 30 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm, 30 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green
1 dead inf, 4 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 5 dead inf, > 4 dead arm

Surviving: 8 rtl vs. 1 inf, < 2 arm

1 inf 12 rtl 1 arm 30 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm, 24 dice
15 OSR, 26 Iron 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 5 green, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
1 dead inf, 3 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 3 dead arm

surviving: 9 rtl vs. 3 arm



Theoretical example 4 – infantry

Spoiler (click to reveal)

16 def inf 1 rtl, 1 arm 22 dice vs. 1 + 8 def inf, 2 rtl, 4 arm, 30 dice
34 OSR, 4 Iron 1 Oil vs. 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 5 blue, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
7 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 4 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 9 inf vs. 5 inf, 1 arm

[follow up: 4 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm → surviving: 5 inf vs. 2 inf]


16 def inf 1 rtl, 1 arm 22 dice vs. 9 inf, 2 rtl, 4 def arm, 30 dice
34 OSR, 4 Iron 1 Oil vs. 24 OSR, 12 Iron, 4 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 5 blue, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
7 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 7 dead inf, 2 dead rtl, 2 dead arm

Surviving: 8 inf vs. 2 inf, 2 arm

[follow up: 5 dead inf vs. 2 dead inf, 1 dead arm → surviving: 3 inf vs. 1 arm]


18 def inf 1 rtl, 20 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm, 30 dice
37 OSR, 2 Iron vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue, 2 ½ black, 2 ½ white
7 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 3 dead inf, 3 dead arm

Surviving: 11 inf vs. 3 inf, 3 arm

[follow up: 6 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm → surviving: 5 inf vs. 2 arm
follow up 2: 3 dead inf vs. > 1 dead arm → surviving: 2 inf vs. < 1 arm]


18 def inf 1 rtl, 20 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm, 24 dice
37 OSR, 2 Iron vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 2 black, 2 white
6 dead inf, 1 dead rtl vs. 6 dead inf, 2 dead arm

Surviving: 12 inf vs. 4 arm

[ follow up: 6 dead inf vs. 3 dead arm]


16 def inf 1 rtl, 1 arm 22 dice vs. 6 def inf 6 arm, 30 dice
34 OSR, 4 Iron 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 5 blue, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 10 yellow, 7 ½ blue
5 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 3 dead inf, 3 dead arm

surviving: 11 inf vs. 3 inf, 3 arm

[follow up: 6 dead inf vs. 3 dead inf, 1 dead arm → surviving: 5 inf vs. 2 arm
follow up 2: 3 dead inf vs. > 1 dead arm → surviving: 2 inf vs. < 1 arm]


16 def inf 1 rtl, 1 arm 22 dice vs. 6 inf 6 def arm, 24 dice
34 OSR, 4 Iron 1 Oil vs. 18 OSR, 12 Iron, 6 Oil

6 2/3 yellow, 5 blue, 3 1/3 green, 1 2/3 black, 1 2/3 white vs. 8 yellow, 6 blue, 4 green
4 dead inf, 1 dead rtl, 1 dead arm vs. 6 dead inf, 2 dead arm

Surviving: 12 inf vs. 4 arm



Ok, so mix monostacks with one of each other unit type (more makes no sense, since you'll lose them in a bigger fight anyway), then they work consistently. And beware if they actually get FA!
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