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Subject: Missed KS - Now what? rss

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Benson Propst
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Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advance!

[Edit: Grammar]
 
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Becq
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Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advanced!

As discussed in other threads, including one just a half hour before yours, there is no pledge manager, no late pledges, and backers couldn't pledge for more than one copy. However, the game has a planned retail release around Essen 2019.
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Ken Thibodeau
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Becq wrote:
Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advanced!

As discussed in other threads, including one just a half hour before yours, there is no pledge manager, no late pledges, and backers couldn't pledge for more than one copy. However, the game has a planned retail release around Essen 2019.


Probably much cheaper than the KS pledge price.
 
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Becq
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fardoche wrote:
Becq wrote:
Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advanced!

As discussed in other threads, including one just a half hour before yours, there is no pledge manager, no late pledges, and backers couldn't pledge for more than one copy. However, the game has a planned retail release around Essen 2019.


Probably much cheaper than the KS pledge price.

Actually, my guess is that it will be close to the same. The KS price was considerably lower than the stated retail price; I think the OLGS price will end up close to the KS price.
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Bernhard W
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fardoche wrote:
Becq wrote:
Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advanced!

As discussed in other threads, including one just a half hour before yours, there is no pledge manager, no late pledges, and backers couldn't pledge for more than one copy. However, the game has a planned retail release around Essen 2019.


Probably much cheaper than the KS pledge price.

Cranio uses CMON in North America as distributor, who have MAPP (15% max. discount for resellers?).

The MSRP on the KS page states it'll be €80 and it was sold for €59, that's 25% off.

Edit: With shipping added (€13 for base game, 9% off total compared to MSRP), you might be able to get it a few dollars cheaper, but not by much.

Edit 2: I hope those who decided to wait for retail are not completionists. The campaign added 2 KS exlcusive executive officer tile SG for the base game in the last 90 minutes, one of which ended up making it into the KS exclusive box.
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tibbles von tibbleton
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Yeah, hearing I missed the last minute KS game addition on top of having to wait on the game sorta annoyed me. I missed hearing about this game until the 13th, I went to back it after watching the HC playthru on what to me was still the 14th, but the KS had already closed, I guess due to timezone difference. Oh well.
 
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Eddy Rae
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BeloW06 wrote:

Edit 2: I hope those who decided to wait for retail are not completionists. The campaign added 2 KS exlcusive executive officer tile SG for the base game in the last 90 minutes, one of which ended up making it into the KS exclusive box.


To bad, would have backed if i knew.
I don't tend to buy retail editions that are "missing" gameplay elements.
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Becq
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Komerad wrote:
To bad, would have backed if i knew.
I don't tend to buy retail editions that are "missing" gameplay elements.

Yeah, that was really poor strategizing on their part. I doubt they made more than a tiny number of extra sales during the KS, if any (because it was added at the last minute with no pledge manager, and because they aren't allowing the purchase of multiple copies), and they will likely lose a fair number of sales to gamers who don't want an 'incomplete' copy of the game.
 
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Dirk Sietze
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Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale
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Bernhard W
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Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).
 
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Jon
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If you missed the decimal point, and you meant €2.75 then let me know and we can work something out.
 
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Andrea Bampi
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BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


wtf? surprise
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Dirk Sietze
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BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


You are correct -Exclusive- for the moment. If there are no takers i will happily keep it. Supply and demand, we will see where the market settles and to some countries shipping is included in my pledge.
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Ken Thibodeau
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BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


The world is sick. Especially if someone bites.
 
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Nate
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Dirksk wrote:
BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


You are correct -Exclusive- for the moment. If there are no takers i will happily keep it. Supply and demand, we will see where the market settles and to some countries shipping is included in my pledge.


This is exactly why I despise Kickstarter exclusives. All it does is punish folks who missed the KS and future hobbyists who have no chance of getting the content for a game they discover and love. I'm completely fine with KS campaigns offering discounted prices and/or free expansions or content, but I really wish publishers would offer all content for their games for purchase. I know it's not going to change any time soon, but the KS exclusives need to die. I also really hate the exclusivity of promos associated with KS campaigns (like the exclusives given away for backing popular board game reviewers) or promos offered at conventions. I mean I'm fine with them being offered for free for these things but wish they would be available for purchase from the publisher at some point. All they do is hurt the true fans of a game who want to experience all the content the game has to offer.

I've been on both ends of KS exclusives (receiving and missing out) and I'd be completely fine with folks being able to pay a fair price to the publisher for exclusives that I got. Barrage for example, I backed at the the highest level but would honestly be fine if they offered everything for purchase once KS orders were filled. Especially the last minute Executive Officer they threw in.
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Dirk Sietze
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Sterling_Archer wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


You are correct -Exclusive- for the moment. If there are no takers i will happily keep it. Supply and demand, we will see where the market settles and to some countries shipping is included in my pledge.


This is exactly why I despise Kickstarter exclusives. All it does is punish folks who missed the KS and future hobbyists who have no chance of getting the content for a game they discover and love. I'm completely fine with KS campaigns offering discounted prices and/or free expansions or content, but I really wish publishers would offer all content for their games for purchase. I know it's not going to change any time soon, but the KS exclusives need to die. I also really hate the exclusivity of promos associated with KS campaigns (like the exclusives given away for backing popular board game reviewers) or promos offered at conventions. I mean I'm fine with them being offered for free for these things but wish they would be available for purchase from the publisher at some point. All they do is hurt the true fans of a game who want to experience all the content the game has to offer.

I've been on both ends of KS exclusives (receiving and missing out) and I'd be completely fine with folks being able to pay a fair price to the publisher for exclusives that I got. Barrage for example, I backed at the the highest level but would honestly be fine if they offered everything for purchase once KS orders were filled. Especially the last minute Executive Officer they threw in.


This is probably not the first time this has been discussed after a successful kickstarter. There will always be haters against people selling of their pledges with KS exclusives and people like me trying to sell of that pledge for a profit. I you or others are really fans you would not have missed this KS. There has been enough attention for this game at GENCON, Spiel'18 and BGG. If you are such a fan of either the designer, heavy euro's or even visit BGG once a week you would not have missed this game, then i don't agree you are a fan. I read a lot of people having a budget which they can't exceed per month or per quarter and sometimes tough decisions have to be made what games to buy or what games to back on Kickstarter. If you didn't back this game then probably there were other better games that you decided to buy or back.

Ks needs their backers to make the game, without the backers this game would probably never see the light of day, so without any exclusive content i would not have backed this game and i am guessing a lot of other backers would not have either. The problem with backing a game with no exclusive content that at some point you can get this game cheaper than what they offered in any campaign, new or used and by that time there have been plenty of reviews that will say if this game is any good at all, so you will know what you are throwing your money at.

Backing a kickstarter project is always a gamble. Lot of risks and challenges behind successfully running a ks project and this is an investment we may never see come to fulfillment. The backer pledging takes that risk and who knows if the game is any good at the end. So many different gamers and a lot of different tastes for that matter.

Besides the fact that i wouldn't back any game on kickstarter if it didn't offer any exclusive content, i backed this one and if i don't sell it at a price with a profit, i keep it. No loss either way. I thought i back at a €1 level, but i apparently forgot to change my pledge and i pledged for the full package.

ooh and btw a lot of times the added exclusive content doesn't add any game play. If you are cursing yourself you missed the ks because of that either you are a completionist or an obsessive collector

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Nate
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Of course it comes up after every successful Kickstarter. It's going on right now over on the Blood Rage forums due to a reprint of KS exclusive content (different monster sculpts but same abilities).

The bottom line is that I just don't agree with you. And that's fine, we can disagree

I don't back games just for exclusive content. I back games because they look cool and I want to see them come to fruition. As I mentioned above, I'm not against incentives. In fact, I'm fine with promos or expansions being given for free or at reduced prices as long as they are offered later on. I'm even fine with alternate art and things like that. All of those things would still bring in KS backers. However, I think exclusive game play content is terrible. I also think you're very wrong about exclusive content not adding game play elements. That's exactly why most people are upset about KS exclusives. Any expansions or promos that add something to the game is in fact game play content and from what I've seen, a majority of KS exclusives focus on that. While most of the Barrage exclusives are aesthetic (3D board and metal coins) the last stretch goal does add game play as it's an Exec Officer. Like I said, I went all-in on Barrage so I'm getting all that stuff. I'm also fine with anyone who didn't back it being able to get it after KS orders are fulfilled.

Finally, my other issue is that those who get into the hobby at a later date often cannot get these exclusives that add game play content or must pay a premium to get them. I'd much rather the new hobbyist just pay the publisher, FLGS, or online store a decent price than pay someone like you a ridiculous price.
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Becq
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I'm not sure why folk are going after Dirksk. It's Cranio that opted to make portions of the game exclusive, not Dirksk. If Dirksk hadn't ordered a copy of the game, then the copy he's selling wouldn't have been printed at all, and €275 is a better price than not available at all.

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the folk who decided to make portions of the game KS exclusive. If there were no exclusives, then there wouldn't be anyone willing to pay over retail, let alone almost triple retail.

I really wish that Cranio had stuck to the KS they had 2 hours before the campaign ended. I think premium or exclusive component upgrades are awesome -- it lets the KS backers enjoy a little extra gamer bling without depriving later gamers the ability to by a complete copy of the game. It's a shame that they decided to add that single card as a gameplay exclusive, especially at the very end of the campaign, too late for many to react to. I think they damaged their game by doing so -- and without the potential benefit of additional FOMO sales, the most common reason for including exclusives.

I guess in this case I'm a little dubious that the game will sell at that high a price tag, but if so, more power to you! If the game is valued that highly, I might consider letting my copy go, too, then repurchase a retail version (and perhaps a modest pile of other games) later.
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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:
I'm not sure why folk are going after Dirksk. It's Cranio that opted to make portions of the game exclusive, not Dirksk.

Supply and demand is of course one way to look at it. It's a common concept in our society. That doesn't make it a good concept though that everyone agrees upon.

I think games should always have fun at the center of it all, and using the fear of missing out on some minute bit of extra fun is where some think that this price is just over the top. I can see both sides, and it's the way things are. The main issue is of course coming from the decision to add game play exclusives at the last minute, like you said:
Becq wrote:
If Dirksk hadn't ordered a copy of the game, then the copy he's selling wouldn't have been printed at all, and €275 is a better price than not available at all.

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the folk who decided to make portions of the game KS exclusive. If there were no exclusives, then there wouldn't be anyone willing to pay over retail, let alone almost triple retail.

I'm 100% sure that Cranio would have made this game after investing 3 years in development on it. It just wouldn't have been made with thick cardboard. The game went on KS to add component upgrades, not because of needed funds to make it at all.
Becq wrote:
I really wish that Cranio had stuck to the KS they had 2 hours before the campaign ended. I think premium or exclusive component upgrades are awesome -- it lets the KS backers enjoy a little extra gamer bling without depriving later gamers the ability to by a complete copy of the game. It's a shame that they decided to add that single card as a gameplay exclusive, especially at the very end of the campaign, too late for many to react to. I think they damaged their game by doing so -- and without the potential benefit of additional FOMO sales, the most common reason for including exclusives.

I guess in this case I'm a little dubious that the game will sell at that high a price tag, but if so, more power to you! If the game is valued that highly, I might consider letting my copy go, too, then repurchase a retail version (and perhaps a modest pile of other games) later.

That last minute game play exclusive addition pretty much tilted the whole campaign on it's head. For weeks gamers could decide if the board + metal coins are worth it to back to get some upgraded exclusive components. Then, it added that FOMO to the after KS value which we see here now.

I couldn't agree more with your statement of "I think they damaged their game by doing so." However, there's a high possibility that they will bring another expansion to KS in the near future where they can bring the "exclusive" stuff back.
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Brayden Kemp
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I would take issue with weather someone is a real fan of a game based on weather they know something is on the horizon, we were late that's all... I personally love board games to pieces, I've also never been to gen con or essen or anything because i have different vacations i do (national parks) the idea that some one missing the kickstarter by a couple weeks only means that i love other things also
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Becq
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BeloW06 wrote:
Becq wrote:
I'm not sure why folk are going after Dirksk. It's Cranio that opted to make portions of the game exclusive, not Dirksk.

Supply and demand is of course one way to look at it. It's a common concept in our society. That doesn't make it a good concept though that everyone agrees upon.

I think games should always have fun at the center of it all, and using the fear of missing out on some minute bit of extra fun is where some think that this price is just over the top. I can see both sides, and it's the way things are. The main issue is of course coming from the decision to add game play exclusives at the last minute, like you said:
Becq wrote:
If Dirksk hadn't ordered a copy of the game, then the copy he's selling wouldn't have been printed at all, and €275 is a better price than not available at all.

If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the folk who decided to make portions of the game KS exclusive. If there were no exclusives, then there wouldn't be anyone willing to pay over retail, let alone almost triple retail.

I'm 100% sure that Cranio would have made this game after investing 3 years in development on it. It just wouldn't have been made with thick cardboard. The game went on KS to add component upgrades, not because of needed funds to make it at all.

A bit of clarification: I didn't mean to imply that the game of Barrage might not have been produced; I meant that the specific copy of Barrage with KS exclusives would not have been produced. Ie, there would have been one less set of KS exclusives in the world.

The game is being sold at retail, so I'm assuming there will be plenty of retail copies available, and people will be able to buy those copies for retail (or less) price. Nobody is going to have to pay Dirksk €275 in order to play the game; they only have the option to do so if they feel the need to have the 3d version of the board and the single exclusive card.

But again, Dirksk isn't the villain here. The KS copy that he is selling wouldn't be for sale at all if he had opted not to preorder it. It's Cranio that made the (in my opinion, poor) decision to limit the availability of the KS version.

Quote:
That last minute game play exclusive addition pretty much tilted the whole campaign on it's head. For weeks gamers could decide if the board + metal coins are worth it to back to get some upgraded exclusive components. Then, it added that FOMO to the after KS value which we see here now.

I disagree. It may have done so for the small number of people (perhaps including yourself) who were (a) awake, and (b) checking in on the website at least once per hour. If you want to boost sales via FOMO, you need to give people time to *hear* about it before the campaign deadline, *or* use a pledge manage to collect post-campaign sales. Kicktraq doesn't really have the resolution to measure this sort of thing, but if anything, the trend looks like it was starting to flatten on that last day after the last 48hr reminder rush.

I'm just one example, but I made my decision about 8hrs earlier based on a guess that we would likely get the coins by morning, then woke up after the campaign had ended, and found out about the new exclusives having been added while I slept.

Quote:
I couldn't agree more with your statement of "I think they damaged their game by doing so." However, there's a high possibility that they will bring another expansion to KS in the near future where they can bring the "exclusive" stuff back.

Possibly true ... but those XOs shouldn't have been exclusive to begin with. The 3d board and coins as exclusive upgrades were fine (you can enjoy the complete game without them), but the last hour addition of gameplay exclusives was a bad idea. They should have made them promos, or "bonus content for backers that will be included in a future expansion" or something like that.
 
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Patrick G.
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Late to this party but I agree with becq.. I discovered this at origins and I tore into the designer (I believe that is who was there). At first he was laughing not getting my ire because of the language barrier but by the time I was done he understood the shitty stunt of game play content as exclusives.
 
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Brian Garmon
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Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advance!

[Edit: Grammar]


You should thank your lucky stars it appears. Lol.
 
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Becq
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Jareck80 wrote:
Bendalf wrote:
Is there going to be a late pledge option for Barrage?
Thanks in advance!

[Edit: Grammar]


You should thank your lucky stars it appears. Lol.

Opinions vary. I'm still glad I backed, since I still believe it will be a good game, despite some shortcomings. I reserve the right to change my mind once I've opened my copy, of course, but nothing I've seen so far makes me regret backing.

YMMV.
 
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Sander Schippers
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fardoche wrote:
BeloW06 wrote:
Dirksk wrote:
Selling my pledge.

Barrage for Sale

And the exclusive sell off begins: €275 for a €99 pledge (+ shipping).


The world is sick. Especially if someone bites.
why not?
The best game ever
The best quality ever
 
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