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Subject: the bosses never suffer rss

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Wendell
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Amazon hq2 locations predicted over a year ago by an analystlooking at where beso's other houses were.
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Dickie Crickets
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To be fair, they were projected to lose 5501 employees, but they managed to save one job by hiring a guy to carry their bags of money to their cars.

That kind of leadership is well worth millions of dollars in bonuses.
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Mike Stiles
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Hey they did their jobs right - they were meant to drive Sears into the ground while extracting the maximum gains from it, and that's what they achieved!

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reminds me of when the "evil unions killed wonderbread" made headlines while the execs quietly looted the company while demanding the employees work for literally 1/4 pay
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david stairs
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wifwendell wrote:


That shit's typical.. Company needs to 'cut back on losses', close stores and fire hundreds of low level workers. NEVER ANY Bosses.. When in many cases, firing say 4 bosses, EQUATES wage savings wise, to 100 or so regular workers.

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Daniel Kearns
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Of course they suffer. They only got 19 million.
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garhkal wrote:
wifwendell wrote:


That shit's typical.. Company needs to 'cut back on losses', close stores and fire hundreds of low level workers. NEVER ANY Bosses.. When in many cases, firing say 4 bosses, EQUATES wage savings wise, to 100 or so regular workers.



A 19 million bonus is 190 employees for 1 yr assuming a lay+benefits cost of 100k per employee. Knock it down to 50k and it is 380, throw in part times and easily 1/10 of the layoffs.

Edit:This isn't to disagree with your sentiment, just to provide a sense of scale. We working class really can't math the volume of money involved among the aristocracy.
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JPotter
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Hey c'mon now, that $19M is their just commission on hundreds of million in expenses cut.

Nuking the company does realize the max possible expense reduction whistle

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Mike Stiles
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rylfrazier wrote:
reminds me of when the "evil unions killed wonderbread" made headlines while the execs quietly looted the company while demanding the employees work for literally 1/4 pay


Or hostess for that matter.

We've finally hit the stage (probably actually been there for a while) where capital is the actual enemy of our industry (commercial and manufacturing both)
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JPotter
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windsagio wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
reminds me of when the "evil unions killed wonderbread" made headlines while the execs quietly looted the company while demanding the employees work for literally 1/4 pay


Or hostess for that matter.

We've finally hit the stage (probably actually been there for a while) where capital is the actual enemy of our industry (commercial and manufacturing both)


Wonderbread and hostess are brands. Interstate Bakeries was the corporate shell in question, filed a bankruptcy in '04, collapsed in '12. Same facilities and brands now operated by new corporate overlords who snapped it all up cheap.

Capital already is the enemy of everything. Capial sees capital itself as the one and only end. All else is disposable means.

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Oops! On the brands;

As to capital, we say that, but there are 2 approaches;

the long-term approach is how it's supposed to work, where the capital is invested for greater total value over time.

What's becoming increasingly popular is the short-term approach where instead of growing value you just strip value out of your purchase.

As we shift more and more to the latter, this is gonna keep happening.
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Jeff Saxton
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On the same front, locally we just lost our long time chain of grocery stores called Shop-n-Save, owned by Supervalu. Supervalu makes, distributes, and retails groceries nationwide. They got bought up by vultures, who took it apart and closed all the retail stores, which is where a major expense is in the system. Of course, with no stores to retail your product in, do you still need distribution?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperValu_(United_States)
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Daniel Kearns
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windsagio wrote:
Oops! On the brands;

As to capital, we say that, but there are 2 approaches;

the long-term approach is how it's supposed to work, where the capital is invested for greater total value over time.

What's becoming increasingly popular is the short-term approach where instead of growing value you just strip value out of your purchase.

As we shift more and more to the latter, this is gonna keep happening.

Ever play?

 
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Mystery McMysteryface
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Isn't it about projected/expected gains?

We had a Target very close to our house that closed--not because it lost money--but because it didn't make enough profit to satisfy the company. It was very profitable, but their projected gains were not met/it wasn't enormously profitable, so they closed it.

We lost our neighborhood Target and most of the employees lost their jobs or chose to commute 15-20 miles to keep their jobs at other Targets.

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JPotter
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windsagio wrote:
Oops! On the brands;

As to capital, we say that, but there are 2 approaches;

the long-term approach is how it's supposed to work, where the capital is invested for greater total value over time.

What's becoming increasingly popular is the short-term approach where instead of growing value you just strip value out of your purchase.

As we shift more and more to the latter, this is gonna keep happening.


As you said we hit the stage ... the stage where all is focused on the short-term. Deals to be closed ASAP. Flip, flip, flip. Get in, get out. Don't keep that money tied up.

And we have been in this stage since the 1980s ... since deregulation of various sorts and massive tax cuts started.

Ownership used to provide influence and political power, now money itself does. Why bother with the hassles of ownership.
 
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Maybe the guy met the goals set by the board to minimize the employees laid off and stores that closed. It's possible those numbers could have been much worse.
 
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JPotter
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jmilum wrote:
Maybe the guy met the goals set by the board to minimize the employees laid off and stores that closed. It's possible those numbers could have been much worse.


A little more detail here:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/business/sears-executive-bonu...

The owners have to bribe executives to continue to man the sinking ship while they pare and restructure the best performing bits for sale to new owners.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-sears-bankrup...

 
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Shadrach wrote:
garhkal wrote:
wifwendell wrote:


That shit's typical.. Company needs to 'cut back on losses', close stores and fire hundreds of low level workers. NEVER ANY Bosses.. When in many cases, firing say 4 bosses, EQUATES wage savings wise, to 100 or so regular workers.



A 19 million bonus is 190 employees for 1 yr assuming a lay+benefits cost of 100k per employee. Knock it down to 50k and it is 380, throw in part times and easily 1/10 of the layoffs.

Edit:This isn't to disagree with your sentiment, just to provide a sense of scale. We working class really can't math the volume of money involved among the aristocracy.


YOu made my point for me.. Laying off just one boss, should have saved the company enough to save a LOT of workers.. rather than Firing a lot of workers, and giving a big bonus to the boss.
 
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Anatoly
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Is this not the whole point of capitalism? If you got the capital (Financial and influencial in this case) then you benefit. This is the incentive for people to climb the corporate ladder after all.

Based on history, the focus on the bottom tier doesn't seem to work too well except on small scales.
 
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Wendell
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Lotana wrote:
Is this not the whole point of capitalism? If you got the capital (Financial and influencial in this case) then you benefit. This is the incentive for people to climb the corporate ladder after all.

Based on history, the focus on the bottom tier doesn't seem to work too well except on small scales.


I don't understand your second point about small scale. Though I suspect I wouldn't like it if I did understand it.
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wifwendell wrote:

I don't understand your second point about small scale.


My appologies. I meant communism. It works well up to a village in size. Beyond that it stops being communism and turns into something else to stay solvent.
 
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garhkal wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
garhkal wrote:
wifwendell wrote:


That shit's typical.. Company needs to 'cut back on losses', close stores and fire hundreds of low level workers. NEVER ANY Bosses.. When in many cases, firing say 4 bosses, EQUATES wage savings wise, to 100 or so regular workers.



A 19 million bonus is 190 employees for 1 yr assuming a lay+benefits cost of 100k per employee. Knock it down to 50k and it is 380, throw in part times and easily 1/10 of the layoffs.

Edit:This isn't to disagree with your sentiment, just to provide a sense of scale. We working class really can't math the volume of money involved among the aristocracy.


YOu made my point for me.. Laying off just one boss, should have saved the company enough to save a LOT of workers.. rather than Firing a lot of workers, and giving a big bonus to the boss.


In this case the stores are going to close whether they ditch someone in management or not. One thing they should be doing with some of that bonus money though is shoring up severance packages that are getting shorted.
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Wendell
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Lotana wrote:
wifwendell wrote:

I don't understand your second point about small scale.


My appologies. I meant communism. It works well up to a village in size. Beyond that it stops being communism and turns into something else to stay solvent.


OK. I do actually think there is LOTS of room for something between "it's good to be rich and fuck the rest of you" and a dictatorship of the proletariat.
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wifwendell wrote:

OK. I do actually think there is LOTS of room for something between "it's good to be rich and fuck the rest of you" and a dictatorship of the proletariat.


Yup. As I said, alternative financial systems don't work on large scales too well.

For good or ill under capitalist systems (In general. There are exceptions: Non-profits, government, religion, etc.) companies exist to make the owners money. In publically traded companies these are the shareholders. They have the ultimate say where the money goes. And why should they give a shit about the workers if liquidating the company will give them more money short term to be re-invested elsewhere? Chances are, those bosses were shareholders.

Workers don't like it, so unions flourished in some industries. In theory unions are great on paper: they give workers power. In practice unions either push too much (Company profits fall, thus shareholders pull out, thus share price drops, thus workers get canned, threfore unions get unhappy) or they get corrupted and become in league with the bosses.

Well, the only thing that I can see left is regulation: Get government to step in. Out comes a can of worms. All of the sudden this evil government policies are screwing with the free market! Some relocate to other countries without oversights. Others make the investment with greatest return of all: Politicians. Have a search how much Google is spending on political donations. I suppose this is why Republicans are so popular with rich people: They must be much more receptive to their needs.

Now when corporations are really influencial in the government, we have Corporatism. From there it is pretty much Fascism. I have really hard time finding the line between the two. They really sound like one and the same. So we reach the other extreme.

So what is my point? That this issue is bloody hard and there are no simple solutions!. Corporations exist to make owners rich. In Sears'es case it looks like owners were favouring the bosses over the workers. This will not change. Build your capital and invest (How about becoming a shareholder?) to exit the rat race. You can't? Then it sucks to be you. Just watch TV and keep working for those that are more competent in this system. Arbeit macht frei.
 
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