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Subject: Trainwrecks just aren't the same any more rss

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Pete
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DragonsDream wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)
I like having the truly hateful graffiti removed rather than just notes saying "ignore the graffiti"
Understandable.

Pete (supposes people were abusing the old system, but they'll probably find ways to abuse the new one too)
 
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tumorous wrote:
magnus_eisengrim wrote:
I would say that if you are going to delete the opening comment in a thread you may as well delete the whole thread as the rest of it looks like people piping up for no apparent reason, all in agreement with each other and apropos of nowt.

Leaving the corpses to rot serves as a warning to their fellows.


What happened to old-school billboards (ie Head on Pike adorning the main gate) advertising the Rogues gallery? Nothing says "Welcome, but mind your self" more than a head rotting in the sun.. eyes dripping from the sockets.

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grant5 wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
col_w wrote:


That would appear to have been the Stuka squabble. It was complete shit, not even vaguely worth calling a train-wreck. Seriously, two internet warriors yelling at each other about who was or wasn't using legit WW2 stats. That's the sort of thing that gets wargamers their bad reputation.

No, I'm pretty sure it was this thread.


Yeah, that OP was a known "it can't be named without punishment".

 
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tumorous wrote:
magnus_eisengrim wrote:
I would say that if you are going to delete the opening comment in a thread you may as well delete the whole thread as the rest of it looks like people piping up for no apparent reason, all in agreement with each other and apropos of nowt.

Leaving the corpses to rot serves as a warning to their fellows.


Not really. Because 1)Stupidity persists, and 2)it now has access to a wider audience via the internet.
 
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plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
Amusing...my pronoun was misconstrued.

Pete (was referring to the "new way" with the pronoun "that")
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plezercruz wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
Amusing...my pronoun was misconstrued.

Pete (was referring to the "new way" with the pronoun "that")

Russ (is totally confused and unenlightened by Pete's explanation, since it's unclear how "that" could possibly be a pronoun or refer to "new way" in that previous comment by Pete)
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russ wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
Amusing...my pronoun was misconstrued.

Pete (was referring to the "new way" with the pronoun "that")

Russ (is totally confused and unenlightened by Pete's explanation, since it's unclear how "that" could possibly be a pronoun or refer to "new way" in that previous comment by Pete)
I'll just rewrite it:

Quote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of privately moderating this site while leaving the content intact was a fine example of how all other sites should be moderated.

Pete (is fine with the new method of deleting nonconforming posts, because that's the way most other sites currently exercise their moderation powers)


Pete (should have been clearer the first time)
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plezercruz wrote:
russ wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
Amusing...my pronoun was misconstrued.

Pete (was referring to the "new way" with the pronoun "that")

Russ (is totally confused and unenlightened by Pete's explanation, since it's unclear how "that" could possibly be a pronoun or refer to "new way" in that previous comment by Pete)
I'll just rewrite it:

Quote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of privately moderating this site while leaving the content intact was a fine example of how all other sites should be moderated.

Pete (is fine with the new method of deleting nonconforming posts, because that's the way most other sites currently exercise their moderation powers)


Pete (should have been clearer the first time)

Nobody (misconstrued your pronoun.)

...am I doing that right?
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plezercruz wrote:
russ wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of moderating this site was the model for all sites to follow.

Pete (is fine with the new way...that's how most sites do it)


Nope, never come across another site that just left infringing shit there forever the way BGG did.
Amusing...my pronoun was misconstrued.

Pete (was referring to the "new way" with the pronoun "that")

Russ (is totally confused and unenlightened by Pete's explanation, since it's unclear how "that" could possibly be a pronoun or refer to "new way" in that previous comment by Pete)
I'll just rewrite it:

Quote:
For whatever my opinion is worth, I thought that the previous way of privately moderating this site while leaving the content intact was a fine example of how all other sites should be moderated.

Pete (is fine with the new method of deleting nonconforming posts, because that's the way most other sites currently exercise their moderation powers)


Pete (should have been clearer the first time)


No, I understood it perfectly the first time. My previous comment stands, along with my usual comment of how bloody awful such a policy is. No decent site permits (for example) neo-Nazi self-promotion to stand (and BGG still does, because it is still right there in RSP).
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JasonJ0 wrote:


No, I understood it perfectly the first time. My previous comment stands, along with my usual comment of how bloody awful such a policy is. No decent site permits (for example) neo-Nazi self-promotion to stand (and BGG still does, because it is still right there in RSP).


I’m with Pete. I prefer how the site was previously moderated.

I’ve been to the sexism thread. From what I can tell, the OP posted objecting to female pronouns in rulebooks. Unfortunately, I can’t tell because most of it has been deleted - as though I might get an attack of the vapours from reading it and have to retreat to my fainting couch.

If someone starts a stupid off-topic discussion, you can move it to RSP, but the current moderation looks like Soviet censorship (except without the murders).

I preferred the model of moderation where I could turn up and gently correct the inevitable threads on “What games can I play with women? Should I keep them simple, with bright colours, and with the theme being knitting - or can I branch out into games with more than two rules and occasional farming?”

I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the ‘girls don’t game’ commentary isn’t motivated by malice, but by people who come from environments where it’s not socially acceptable for women to game. Those posters don’t need censorship for sexism, but just some guidance that their experience doesn’t apply everywhere.

Also, neo-Nazis can game too. You might not want them in your gaming group, but there’s no reason they can’t be in the hobby. There’s not even any reason why they can’t be in your gaming group provided they’re welcoming and respectful, treat everyone decently, and don’t discuss politics. You never know, they might actually change their political views upon exposure to the people they want to dehumanise.

If you don’t like them self-promoting their views on BGG, you can always go over to RSP and disagree with them, you know. You don’t have to leave them being neo-Nazi and unopposed.
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veemonroe wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:


No, I understood it perfectly the first time. My previous comment stands, along with my usual comment of how bloody awful such a policy is. No decent site permits (for example) neo-Nazi self-promotion to stand (and BGG still does, because it is still right there in RSP).


I’m with Pete. I prefer how the site was previously moderated.

I’ve been to the sexism thread. From what I can tell, the OP posted objecting to female pronouns in rulebooks. Unfortunately, I can’t tell because most of it has been deleted - as though I might get an attack of the vapours from reading it and have to retreat to my fainting couch.

If someone starts a stupid off-topic discussion, you can move it to RSP, but the current moderation looks like Soviet censorship (except without the murders).

I preferred the model of moderation where I could turn up and gently correct the inevitable threads on “What games can I play with women? Should I keep them simple, with bright colours, and with the theme being knitting - or can I branch out into games with more than two rules and occasional farming?”

I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the ‘girls don’t game’ commentary isn’t motivated by malice, but by people who come from environments where it’s not socially acceptable for women to game. Those posters don’t need censorship for sexism, but just some guidance that their experience doesn’t apply everywhere.

Also, neo-Nazis can game too. You might not want them in your gaming group, but there’s no reason they can’t be in the hobby. There’s not even any reason why they can’t be in your gaming group provided they’re welcoming and respectful, treat everyone decently, and don’t discuss politics. You never know, they might actually change their political views upon exposure to the people they want to dehumanise.

If you don’t like them self-promoting their views on BGG, you can always go over to RSP and disagree with them, you know. You don’t have to leave them being neo-Nazi and unopposed.
Agreed.

I also think that silencing a position makes it fester and grow in popularity. Leaving it out in the open, challenging it, and demonstrating its absurdity is far superior.

However...I also totally understand that this is a gaming forum, and we don't necessarily have to wage that particular battle here if the ownership doesn't want us to.

Pete (has never had to wonder why people got banned or moderated before, but now finds that he does)
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veemonroe wrote:
I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the ‘girls don’t game’ commentary isn’t motivated by malice, but by people who come from environments where it’s not socially acceptable for women to game. Those posters don’t need censorship for sexism, but just some guidance that their experience doesn’t apply everywhere.

And those non-malicious cases don't get moderated. (If you don't believe me, see this very recent thread: Light 2 player games to play with girlfriend or wife.)

The user in the heavily moderated trainwreck thread, however, was not naively unaware; they were clearly stirring the pot, angrily ranting about "PC", aggressively ridiculing people, etc.
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plezercruz wrote:
I also think that silencing a position makes it fester and grow in popularity. Leaving it out in the open, challenging it, and demonstrating its absurdity is far superior.

That is easily and demonstrably untrue, but that would be a conversation for RSP.
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Can you guys all get nastier, and start with the name-calling, dox threats and general douche-baggery? That way we can have a trainwreck in the trainwreck thread.
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plezercruz wrote:
veemonroe wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:


No, I understood it perfectly the first time. My previous comment stands, along with my usual comment of how bloody awful such a policy is. No decent site permits (for example) neo-Nazi self-promotion to stand (and BGG still does, because it is still right there in RSP).


I’m with Pete. I prefer how the site was previously moderated.

I’ve been to the sexism thread. From what I can tell, the OP posted objecting to female pronouns in rulebooks. Unfortunately, I can’t tell because most of it has been deleted - as though I might get an attack of the vapours from reading it and have to retreat to my fainting couch.

If someone starts a stupid off-topic discussion, you can move it to RSP, but the current moderation looks like Soviet censorship (except without the murders).

I preferred the model of moderation where I could turn up and gently correct the inevitable threads on “What games can I play with women? Should I keep them simple, with bright colours, and with the theme being knitting - or can I branch out into games with more than two rules and occasional farming?”

I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the ‘girls don’t game’ commentary isn’t motivated by malice, but by people who come from environments where it’s not socially acceptable for women to game. Those posters don’t need censorship for sexism, but just some guidance that their experience doesn’t apply everywhere.

Also, neo-Nazis can game too. You might not want them in your gaming group, but there’s no reason they can’t be in the hobby. There’s not even any reason why they can’t be in your gaming group provided they’re welcoming and respectful, treat everyone decently, and don’t discuss politics. You never know, they might actually change their political views upon exposure to the people they want to dehumanise.

If you don’t like them self-promoting their views on BGG, you can always go over to RSP and disagree with them, you know. You don’t have to leave them being neo-Nazi and unopposed.
Agreed.

I also think that silencing a position makes it fester and grow in popularity. Leaving it out in the open, challenging it, and demonstrating its absurdity is far superior.

However...I also totally understand that this is a gaming forum, and we don't necessarily have to wage that particular battle here if the ownership doesn't want us to.

Pete (has never had to wonder why people got banned or moderated before, but now finds that he does)


Pete,

What is the demographic of the people with whom you directly communicate in life, apart from those in this place?

Meaningful discussions and interactions... not just "hiya... howya doin'?"


Also, what general age demo do you fall in?

 
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Ozludo wrote:
Can you guys all get nastier, and start with the name-calling, dox threats and general douche-baggery? That way we can have a trainwreck in the trainwreck thread.

That is a terrible idea i will cut you.
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grant5 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
I also think that silencing a position makes it fester and grow in popularity. Leaving it out in the open, challenging it, and demonstrating its absurdity is far superior.

That is easily and demonstrably untrue, but that would be a conversation for RSP.


Yeah, I think Pete has a case of the Optimizms. Its sweet to still see that exists.



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Ozludo wrote:
Can you guys all get nastier, and start with the name-calling, dox threats and general douche-baggery? That way we can have a trainwreck in the trainwreck thread.



If your Avatar is Walter White.. I'll just bow out now.

 
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Ozludo wrote:
Can you guys all get nastier, and start with the name-calling, dox threats and general douche-baggery? That way we can have a trainwreck in the trainwreck thread.
You’re a slithy tove. (I like your geekbadge!)
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veemonroe wrote:
I preferred the model of moderation where I could turn up and gently correct the inevitable...


Agreed. It seems a few of the moderators are being ridiculously heavy-handed. On a thread I started in "hot deals", regarding a favorite card game temporarily going free, someone asked, mid-thread, what the IAP was for on Android. That's a reasonable question.

Someone answered, misreading the intent, with "It means In-App Purchase." That was followed by the OP confirming that he knows the meaning of the acronym, he wanted to know what the purchase represented in the game. And then he followed it with the mildest of insults.

That caused the original respondent to get a tiny bit upset, and point out that it wasn't clear from his original question.

I stepped in at that point to basically say 'calm down guys' and explained the purpose of the IAP in the game (it was an unlock for the rest of the game, which was hidden after 10 levels).

A couple days later a moderator removed all those posts, leaving the original question but none of the followup, leading a new poster to question why the guy hadn't gotten an answer and saying he wanted to know as well. I had to go back into the thread and repost the IAP explanation! shake

tl/dr: Useful content is being removed along with the "offending" stuff.
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veemonroe wrote:

Also, neo-Nazis can game too. You might not want them in your gaming group, but there’s no reason they can’t be in the hobby. There’s not even any reason why they can’t be in your gaming group provided they’re welcoming and respectful, treat everyone decently, and don’t discuss politics.


How about the fact they're neo-nazis and shouldn't be tolerated in any hobby?

Community accountability is incredible important in reforming behavior. If you're okay with a neo-nazi in your gaming group, you're complicit with their racist, bigoted views, and you're not a safe person for others to be around.

Quote:
In brief, accountability is the ability to recognize, end and take responsibility for violence. We usually think of the person doing harm as the one to be accountable for violence. Community accountability also means that communities are accountable for sometimes ignoring, minimizing or even encouraging violence. Communities must also recognize, end and take responsibility for violence by becoming more knowledgeable, skillful and willing to take action to intervene in violence and to support social norms and conditions that prevent violence from happening in the first place.

(Source)
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Jacqland wrote:
veemonroe wrote:

Also, neo-Nazis can game too. You might not want them in your gaming group, but there’s no reason they can’t be in the hobby. There’s not even any reason why they can’t be in your gaming group provided they’re welcoming and respectful, treat everyone decently, and don’t discuss politics.


How about the fact they're neo-nazis and shouldn't be tolerated in any hobby?

Community accountability is incredible important in reforming behavior. If you're okay with a neo-nazi in your gaming group, you're complicit with their racist, bigoted views, and you're not a safe person for others to be around.


Better than being nihilists. I mean say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, at least its an ethos.

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Question. Has anybody calling for threads not to be moderated actually been on a no moderation board?

Because I have (a forum for the Urban Dead game set up by a few Something Awful Goons). And while it was a lot of fun while it lasted, it wasn't exactly productive for discussion.

I mean if that's what you want, great. I'm probably more comfortable with free for alls than most people. But at the very least I need to be able to call people who claim that the English language has never changed "dumbfucks" for things to be equal.
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Question. Has anybody calling for threads not to be moderated actually been on a no moderation board?

Or even a low-moderation site, e.g. youtube or the comments sections of many news sites. Yeesh. Wretched hives of loud dumb idiocy, trolling, hatred, and aggressive racist/sexist/etc insults.
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