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Subject: Couple of questions about the rules rss

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Greg Frank
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Hey guys gearing up to play my first game. We plan to play a basic one but want to get some clarifications.

1) when pulling a play immediately at the beginning of the game when you get your initial hand or in the case of a hero get your bonus card as well (starting in town square) do you discard immediate and reshuffle or do they come into play and the effects taken?


3) if the hero's deck runs out and some point later in the game the zombies
play a card that requires the players to discard a card from the hero deck, does this end the game immediately or does the card get discarded since the deck is already empty?


2)Advance Rules - When a player loses there last hero it becomes a zombie hero, at that point do they draw back up to 4 heroes or just 1? Also when they lose a hero if there are unused ones but they haven't lost all their heroes yet, do they draw a new one at this point too?

Thanks, the rule book is one of the best ones I have read even though I still have a couple of questions.
 
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Jim Black
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Quote:
1) when pulling a play immediately at the beginning of the game when you get your initial hand or in the case of a hero get your bonus card as well (starting in town square) do you discard immediate and reshuffle or do they come into play and the effects taken?


I would say they come into play immediately, same as any other time you draw one.


Quote:
3) if the hero's deck runs out and some point later in the game the zombies play a card that requires the players to discard a card from the hero deck, does this end the game immediately or does the card get discarded since the deck is already empty?


It seems like the rulebook was very unclear about this. At one point, it states that if the Heroes draw the last card from the deck, they are fine and simply play with what they have. However, if the Zombie player discards the last card, the players lose.

As a corellary, it seems to imply that a Zombie player that tries to discard cards from the Hero deck and cannot (due to the deck being exhausted) automatically wins. I have already banned this as a houserule as it seems like a cheesy way to win. I simply say that you cannot discard what isn't there to discard. But, like I said, that is a houserule.


Quote:
2)Advance Rules - When a player loses there last hero it becomes a zombie hero, at that point do they draw back up to 4 heroes or just 1? Also when they lose a hero if there are unused ones but they haven't lost all their heroes yet, do they draw a new one at this point too?


The Zombie player also wins if he kills 4 Heroes, so if you have to draw up to 4 players, you have just lost.

Also note: any time you lose a hero (whether it becomes a Zombie Hero or not) you replace it with another Hero. You always have 4 Heroes in play. So, you should always just draw 1 Hero to replace the dead Hero.

 
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Jon Quinn
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I agree with your discard rule interpretation. You cannot force the hero to discard if there are no cards left in the deck to discard. I am not really sure what the reason was behind the rule. There's probably a reason for it.

But on the idea that there are always 4 heroes... I don't think that is so. I thought the rule was that if YOUR last hero is killed (or zombiefied) that you draw anther hero. But if it is two player game, you control all 4 heroes, and you lose 1, it is not your last hero so you do not draw to replace him (her). In a three player game, each human player has 2 heroes, so neither would redraw unless they lost their second hero (but this would end the first senario)

Am I wrong about this?

 
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David Knepper
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gf_ripper wrote:
1) when pulling a play immediately at the beginning of the game when you get your initial hand or in the case of a hero get your bonus card as well (starting in town square) do you discard immediate and reshuffle or do they come into play and the effects taken?


The Play immediatelys DO count towards the 4 total drawn. The play immediately cards are just played immediately. (see discussion BGG thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/197299)

gf_ripper wrote:
3) if the hero's deck runs out and some point later in the game the zombies play a card that requires the players to discard a card from the hero deck, does this end the game immediately or does the card get discarded since the deck is already empty?


The discussion on page 17 of the rules seems to make this pretty clear: "....the Zombies automatically win the game if:....- A Zombie Card discards the last Hero Card from the deck (or would discard the last card, even if there are none left).

The problem is that this doesn't seem to fit thematically with the game, so I suspect that this victory condition is to keep the game from dragging on interminably like in Twilight Creation's Zombies!!! game.

gf_ripper wrote:
2) Advance Rules - When a player loses there last hero it becomes a zombie hero, at that point do they draw back up to 4 heroes or just 1? Also when they lose a hero if there are unused ones but they haven't lost all their heroes yet, do they draw a new one at this point too.


Again the discussion in the rules, page 19, seems pretty straight forward, i.e., "....The Hero Player whose character was just killed gets to draw a new Hero to control from the remaining unused Hero Character sheets...."



 
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Dan Sulin
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I have another question about Play Immediately cards. If the Zombie player draws more then one in a turn can he choose in what order they happen or does he have to draw one at a time, resole the effect and continue.
 
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David Knepper
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nilus wrote:
I have another question about Play Immediately cards. If the Zombie player draws more then one in a turn can he choose in what order they happen or does he have to draw one at a time, resole the effect and continue.


From website listed above: Coony is right, nicely done. I'm going to add as well the Zombie player does not need to lay them down when he draws play immediatelys. If he/she draws several play immediately cards he/she can choose in which order he/she plays them.
 
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Greg Frank
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Thanks for all the replies so far, waiting for one of the creators to respond, Jim what you said makes more sense to me know. Thanks for the info. The question then becomes if you keep drawing new heroes when you lose them how would you ever discard your last hero (in order for a zombie hero to rise) and then still be able to replace that hero since you will have most likely used up all heroes?


Jon is seems I am not the only who is confused on this rule. that is what confuses me as well.

David the rule maybe be obvious to you but I am still confused on it and it is not clear to me.

 
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David Knepper
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The discussion thread I provided provides comments from Flying Frog Productions regarding your first question (Mary Beth).

On page 22 of the rules is an official FAQ. The second response spells out the answer to your third question.
 
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Elstree
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Aging One wrote:
gf_ripper wrote:
3) if the hero's deck runs out and some point later in the game the zombies play a card that requires the players to discard a card from the hero deck, does this end the game immediately or does the card get discarded since the deck is already empty?


The discussion on page 17 of the rules seems to make this pretty clear: "....the Zombies automatically win the game if:....- A Zombie Card discards the last Hero Card from the deck (or would discard the last card, even if there are none left).

The problem is that this doesn't seem to fit thematically with the game, so I suspect that this victory condition is to keep the game from dragging on interminably like in Twilight Creation's Zombies!!! game.


In certain scenarios exhausting the Hero deck could make the game unwinnable. For example, it's possible in the Truck scenario that the Heroes may have discarded all the "Keys" cards fishing for extra cards. If they don't have any way of recovering cards from the discard pile there's no way for them to win at that point. Even in other scenarios the Heroes are going to be in dire straits if they exhaust all their cards.

My guess is this came up in play testing and they determined that a Zombie win was so likely at that point that they might as well make it a win condition.

If this actually happened in a game we were playing, I think our group would play it out just to watch the heroes' grizzly (and hilarious) demise as they struggled to survive without resources. Having the heroes make their last stand as they run out of ammo and their hand weapons break one by one, well, that's cinematic enough to play out in my opinion.
 
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Jon Quinn
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gf_ripper wrote:

Jon is seems I am not the only who is confused on this rule. that is what confuses me as well.

David the rule maybe be obvious to you but I am still confused on it and it is not clear to me.



You and me both.

Here is the paragraph in the manual which caused me to interpret the rule to the effect that you do not draw a new character in every circumstance when a character dies and thus always maintain 4 heroes on the board. This is found on page 19 under "Placing New Heroes During the Game":

Occasionally a Hero Player will get to draw a new Hero Character to enter play during the game in progress (this usually happens when a player's last Hero Character dies or if a Hero is killed early in the game).

I really do not understand this paragraph IF one always draws a new hero character whenever one dies... why say "this usually happens when a player's last hero character dies" if it happens even when its not a player's last hero character as well?











 
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David Knepper
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jwquinn wrote:
gf_ripper wrote:

Jon is seems I am not the only who is confused on this rule. that is what confuses me as well.

David the rule maybe be obvious to you but I am still confused on it and it is not clear to me.



You and me both.

Here is the paragraph in the manual which caused me to interpret the rule to the effect that you do not draw a new character in every circumstance when a character dies and thus always maintain 4 heroes on the board. This is found on page 19 under "Placing New Heroes During the Game":

Occasionally a Hero Player will get to draw a new Hero Character to enter play during the game in progress (this usually happens when a player's last Hero Character dies or if a Hero is killed early in the game).

I really do not understand this paragraph IF one always draws a new hero character whenever one dies... why say "this usually happens when a player's last hero character dies" if it happens even when its not a player's last hero character as well?


The reference to "killed early in the game" refers to the discussion about a hero killed while the Sun Track is still in the Black Zone, i.e., number 14 or earlier. If a hero is killed then, it becomes a "Zombie Hero" and hero player draws a new hero character from the remaning unused heroes. If the hero is killed outside of the Sun Track Black Zone and it is not the players last hero, then no new hero is drawn.
 
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Jason Hill
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Hey guys. I will try to shed some light on the above questions.

1) A Zombie Player draws up ALL of their cards first to fill their Hand. Then, once drawn up, they get to choose what order to play their 'Play Immediately' cards in. If there are two Zombie Players, they may discuss strategy before deciding.


2) The Heroes automatically lose if a Zombie card forces them to discard the last Hero Card from the deck or if a Zombie Card WOULD discard the last card, even if there aren't any to be discarded. This alternate victory condition very rarely comes into play, but is more of a psychological threat as the Hero deck starts getting low (How many are left? Should we stop searching? etc).

You'll find that most Zombie cards that discard Hero Cards from the deck are sort of a double-edged sword. You get rid of some Hero Cards, but it opens up more possibilities for the Heroes to use the 'Pick Up:' ability of buildings around the board.


3) Players ONLY get to draw a new Hero character if:

- The last Hero character they control is killed.

- Their Hero is killed while the sun is still in the 'Black Zone' (turn 14 or higher on the Sun Track).

- If instructed to by a card or Scenario special rule.


I hope this clears things up. If there are still lingering questions, let me know.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions
 
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Jon Quinn
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jchill7 wrote:
Hey guys. I will try to shed some light on the above questions.


3) Players ONLY get to draw a new Hero character if:

- The last Hero character they control is killed.

- Their Hero is killed while the sun is still in the 'Black Zone' (turn 14 or higher on the Sun Track).

- If instructed to by a card or Scenario special rule.


I hope this clears things up. If there are still lingering questions, let me know.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions


Thanks Jason. Great game. And this is how we have been playing all along. So, I wasn't confused after all.... well... at least not on this matter.

 
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Greg Frank
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jchill7 wrote:
Hey guys. I will try to shed some light on the above questions.

1) A Zombie Player draws up ALL of their cards first to fill their Hand. Then, once drawn up, they get to choose what order to play their 'Play Immediately' cards in. If there are two Zombie Players, they may discuss strategy before deciding.


2) The Heroes automatically lose if a Zombie card forces them to discard the last Hero Card from the deck or if a Zombie Card WOULD discard the last card, even if there aren't any to be discarded. This alternate victory condition very rarely comes into play, but is more of a psychological threat as the Hero deck starts getting low (How many are left? Should we stop searching? etc).

You'll find that most Zombie cards that discard Hero Cards from the deck are sort of a double-edged sword. You get rid of some Hero Cards, but it opens up more possibilities for the Heroes to use the 'Pick Up:' ability of buildings around the board.


3) Players ONLY get to draw a new Hero character if:

- The last Hero character they control is killed.

- Their Hero is killed while the sun is still in the 'Black Zone' (turn 14 or higher on the Sun Track).

- If instructed to by a card or Scenario special rule.


I hope this clears things up. If there are still lingering questions, let me know.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions


Thanks that answered pretty much all the questions, I sent you a pm with 2 quick clarifications but I believe you hit up all my inquires.
 
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Mad Halfling
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I think the discard rule (where the zombies win) will work quite well as it will stop the heroes burning through the deck (esp with the drifter's ability) and then getting completely loaded up with the best equipment.
 
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