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Subject: Solo Game against Dynamic Opponent with New Value AI rss

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Dan Hallagan

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All:

Well, this turned out to be high comedy! I am not good at speed chess and now we all know I am not good at speed Obsession! But this session does show off the new AI very well, as I had hoped. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/VXq98FXizNk

Let me know your thoughts!

Dan
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Frank Calcagno
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Dan, loved the play through. (And the mistakes made me feel right at home!)

To answer your main question, I think this dynamic AI serves very well (is simple) and is what I would like to use.

One clarification: in choosing value tiles, you have "Courtship Tile"...third on the list as I recall. When looking for a "courtship tile" on the Builders' Market, are we ONLY looking at the current courtship theme, or are we considering all courtship themes revealed to date? And if we look at all revealed themes, do we default to the current theme, if able? (This would make a difference in the final courtship to come.)

So, for example, in season 2 we saw Sporting last season as a theme, and in Season 2 (in our current turn) we have Essentials as the season 2 theme.
The AI rolls a 2 so they look for value...there are no Essentials on the Market, but there is a Sporting. Does the AI take Sporting because it was revealed last season?? Is that clearly articulated if that is the case. (If it is not the case, and only the current theme applies, should we be looking at all cumulative themes to help the AI in the final courtship???)


Also, I think I've missed a rule somehow. As I recall, the AI won a courtship, and I think they took Charles. You immediately gave the AI an entire prestige level (equal to 5 wheel increments) and also a casual guest. Why/how was that done? (I'm sure I missed a rule somewhere...)modest
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M M

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That game was so hilarious! And it's exactly how playing the solo AI felt to me - the AI is so crushing that you just start laughing.

Now, I really want to hear the story of how Elizabeth Fairchild married into your rich but disreputable family... so many prestige tiles with absolutely no reputation; it was so funny!

I am still wondering whether the dynamic solo/co-op AI is a little too cruel, but that might be a good thing. There's the regular AI for people who want a more friendly solo opponent and this one is for expert players who want a real challenge.
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Dan Hallagan

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Antares Rangers wrote:
Dan, loved the play through. (And the mistakes made me feel right at home!)

Just because I can build a pianoforte doesn't mean I can play one well! The likes of the EuroQuest dudes would obliterate me.

Antares Rangers wrote:
To answer your main question, I think this dynamic AI serves very well (is simple) and is what I would like to use.

One clarification: in choosing value tiles, you have "Courtship Tile"...third on the list as I recall.

Actually 2nd.


Antares Rangers wrote:
When looking for a "courtship tile" on the Builders' Market, are we ONLY looking at the current courtship theme, or are we considering all courtship themes revealed to date? And if we look at all revealed themes, do we default to the current theme, if able? (This would make a difference in the final courtship to come.)

So, for example, in season 2 we saw Sporting last season as a theme, and in Season 2 (in our current turn) we have Essentials as the season 2 theme.
The AI rolls a 2 so they look for value...there are no Essentials on the Market, but there is a Sporting. Does the AI take Sporting because it was revealed last season?? Is that clearly articulated if that is the case. (If it is not the case, and only the current theme applies, should we be looking at all cumulative themes to help the AI in the final courtship???)

My intent was only the current theme. I worry about making the AI cumbersome to manage if we go deeper. So once you drop out of current courtship consideration, you just evaluate tiles in order of their general value.

Antares Rangers wrote:
Also, I think I've missed a rule somehow. As I recall, the AI won a courtship, and I think they took Charles. You immediately gave the AI an entire prestige level (equal to 5 wheel increments) and also a casual guest. Why/how was that done? (I'm sure I missed a rule somewhere...)modest

The solo opponent enjoys the benefits of the full courtship, so Elizabeth added in the casual guest. Excerpt:

 
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Dan Hallagan

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Achire wrote:
That game was so hilarious! And it's exactly how playing the solo AI felt to me - the AI is so crushing that you just start laughing.

Now, I really want to hear the story of how Elizabeth Fairchild married into your rich but disreputable family... so many prestige tiles with absolutely no reputation; it was so funny!

I am still wondering whether the dynamic solo/co-op AI is a little too cruel, but that might be a good thing. There's the regular AI for people who want a more friendly solo opponent and this one is for expert players who want a real challenge.


I think the option to play without the servants' hall would make the game much tighter. Also, I wasn't that far from success. If I had managed my money to get the extra 10 VP at the end and that one prestige tile had not come up (the one that triggered three prestige guests), I would have won!

I stress the servants' hall for the dynamic opponent because otherwise their reputation is captive to securing Prestige Tiles, which is hit or miss, and which will be savagely pirated away by a clever opponent(s).

I wonder if starting the Dynamic opponent with a monument might not be a good idea. No stealing, but reputation every turn. Perhaps with the Garden Maze (since there are two estate monuments)?
 
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Scott Sinelli
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Waited for the video before I played my first game with the new AI. Played York (Y) vs Ponsonby (SF). Lost 107 to 150. Played without the Sevants' Hall going to the SF at start. Lost the courtship slitting two essentials going to the SF and two sporting going to York. Breakout as follows:

Improvement Tiles Y:34;SF:55
Gentry VP: Y:33;SF 41
Objective Cards: Y:6;SF:5
Reputation VP: Y:6;SF 10
Service Y;16;SF 14
Wealth Y:2;SF 12
Courtship/VP Cards: Y:10;SF:13

Very hard to compete with SF when Essentials is the theme. SF gets the backside points for scoring while the player has to host. Can be hard early when guests are fewer unless you want to pass early and often. Also there seemed to a preponderance of essentials tiles out when it was the theme. Managed to suppress reputation score I think because very few prestige tiles came out and no Servants' Hall. SF was a cash machine while York was relatively cash poor throughout. Worth a few more plays. Right now I think it might be best for the more expert player looking for a greater challenge.
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Dan Hallagan

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redlewis1 wrote:
Waited for the video before I played my first game with the new AI. Played York (Y) vs Ponsonby (SF). Lost 107 to 150. Played without the Sevants' Hall going to the SF at start. Lost the courtship slitting two essentials going to the SF and two sporting going to York. Breakout as follows:

Improvement Tiles Y:34;SF:55
Gentry VP: Y:33;SF 41
Objective Cards: Y:6;SF:5
Reputation VP: Y:6;SF 10
Service Y;16;SF 14
Wealth Y:2;SF 12
Courtship/VP Cards: Y:10;SF:13

Very hard to compete with SF when Essentials is the theme. SF gets the backside points for scoring while the player has to host. Can be hard early when guests are fewer unless you want to pass early and often. Also there seemed to a preponderance of essentials tiles out when it was the theme. Managed to suppress reputation score I think because very few prestige tiles came out and no Servants' Hall. SF was a cash machine while York was relatively cash poor throughout. Worth a few more plays. Right now I think it might be best for the more expert player looking for a greater challenge.


Thanks, Scott for the report! First of all, I very much expect this to be a harder solo experience. I'll give an example: my friends and family love Forbidden Desert because that thing is so hard to beat and a victory is meaningful, even a moment for high fives and excitement. Recently, I've discovered Spirit Island, and I was blown away by the gameplay, but by the third game it had lost its allure because we won every game. All you need to do is run the fear out. Now, I know there is a way to scale it (and I will try it), but I was hoping this opponent would be like Forbidden Desert. A real accomplishment.

That said, I want it to be scalable so that it is accessible by all. I have been toying with the idea of starting with the START tiles not flipped, and when the AI rolls the that tile type for the first time, the START tile is flipped; no purchase takes place.
 
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Steve Clark
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I thought you'd look here...the answer is slightly cryptic
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I was just looking at this yesterday and was thinking "does the AI really flip tiles automatically without checking for rep? If so, how is it even possible to win a single courtship...esp. with such a high chance of a value tile?" (especially with brown, as there are no level 1 buildings and no points on them to start with)

What would it play like if buildings had a rep check too? (ie. they flip only when the required rep is reached, or if it's already reached when purchasing)

Scalability is key either way.
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Dan Hallagan

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Steve C wrote:
I was just looking at this yesterday and was thinking "does the AI really flip tiles automatically without checking for rep? If so, how is it even possible to win a single courtship...esp. with such a high chance of a value tile?" (especially with brown, as there are no level 1 buildings and no points on them to start with)

What would it play like if buildings had a rep check too? (ie. they flip only when the required rep is reached, or if it's already reached when purchasing)

Scalability is key either way.

I’ve played half a dozen cooperative games and we have won 3. The problem with reputation checks for the tiles is that reputation can be hard to come by for the dynamic AI. I think it would get trounced regularly. There may be a sweet spot balancing a servants’ hall or monument with the timing of a reputation check.
 
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Steve Clark
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Another way I just thought of - how about doing it by season?

Flip all of his level 1-2 tiles at the start of the 1st season. (and all future tiles immediately when taken)
Do the same for level 3-4 tiles at the start of the 2nd season.
And again for level 5-6 tiles at the start of the 3rd season.

(or if that's too harsh, try level 1, then 2-3, then 4-5, then 6. Or if you decided to go down the personality/scalability route, change it up for different skill settings)

That way he can't race off into a huge lead at the start, but isn't constrained by not picking up rep tiles/guests either. (and it also reflects the progression that real players get over the course of the game)
 
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