Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Does it deviate from the book? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
john m
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Does this game deviate a lot from the LotR books, Hobbit, Similarian (sp?)?

Ok r is it the LotR universe that allows lots of "extrapolation"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fred Buchholz
United States
Middleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnyLikesGames wrote:
Does this game deviate a lot from the LotR books, Hobbit, Similarian (sp?)?

Ok r is it the LotR universe that allows lots of "extrapolation"?


Actually Both

There are the Saga series (2 for the Hobbit and 2 per volume of the trilogy so 6 more that follow the books) These are larger espansion boxes.

The other content shows us what was going on around Middle Earth for the years between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo heading out for Rivendell
They come in Deluxe box (same size as a Saga box) and then 6 Adventure packs for each deluxe. That makes up a cycle.
The first cycle is just 6 Adventure packs as they compliment the "core" box which you need to get started.
You can pick up whatever adventure packs are available if you decide this is for you.

There is definitely some extrapolation but not to far and there are characters mentioned in the books like Cirdan and so on. They are fleshed out either with characters (supporting allies in your quests) or as heroes( the leaders of your quests) or both so you can choose which way you want to include them.

Don't be daunted by the amount of content listed nor the "out of print", they really are just in the queue to be reprinted.
Pick up a Core to try it out, check out:

https://hallofbeorn.wordpress.com/beorns-path/

To help get along after your first few tries

Hope you like it and join us in Middle Earth.
sauron
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ancestral Hamster
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you want a recreation of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, you'll want the Saga expansions of the same title. (2 for the Hobbit, 6 for LotR, just like how the trilogy was divided into six "books" internally based on primary focus.)

Other expansions are extrapolations.

johnnyLikesGames wrote:
Does this game deviate a lot from the LotR books, Hobbit, Similarian (sp?)?

Ok r is it the LotR universe that allows lots of "extrapolation"?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
How would you like to run through the mines of Moria? Fight Smaug? Search for Gollum? Fight trolls? Play as Elrond? or Legolas? This is that game.

You have EPIC scenarios. You play with EPIC characters. Some of the art will make you pause the game to admire it. The game has amazing support AND this is the best part, its relatively balanced even after six years of releases. Its an incredible interpretation of the Tolkien world.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bradley S
msg tools
Everyone has already answered your question, but I'll piggyback on the gushing for how awesome this game is with regards to the Tolkien theme. Thematically, this game is pretty much flawless, in my opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While the non-saga expansions are set outside the text of the book, except for the second cycle (goes into Moria) it is consistent with the LOTR. Unlike some LOTR-licensed material, the game is clearly based on the text and not at all on the movies; art and flavor text are all firmly from that world. There are some invented unique characters (especially females), but most characters are also drawn from the book. You can tell the designers have great respect for the source material.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Susan Martin
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dalestephenson wrote:
except for the second cycle (goes into Moria) it is consistent with the LOTR


I curious why that's not consistent? The only thing that doesn't work is that they go into Moria and presumably come out again and never tell anyone what they've seen. Elrond who sent them apparently forgets that he sent them and forgets that he never heard back. But everything they found there would have been there at that time. I love the fact that they go in through the east gate of Moria and retrace the path of the book in reverse.

The mission to escort Arwen over the mountains is straight from the appendix.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lady Mondegreen wrote:
dalestephenson wrote:
except for the second cycle (goes into Moria) it is consistent with the LOTR


I curious why that's not consistent? The only thing that doesn't work is that they go into Moria and presumably come out again and never tell anyone what they've seen. Elrond who sent them apparently forgets that he sent them and forgets that he never heard back. But everything they found there would have been there at that time. I love the fact that they go in through the east gate of Moria and retrace the path of the book in reverse.


They go in the East gate in Khazad-Dum, but in through the West in Dwarrowdelf. So two separate passages through Moria, the first of which discovers the death of Balin (not known to the fellowship) and the second of which discovers that Durin's Bane is in fact a Balrog (also not known to the fellowship). Passing through Moria was done by both Aragorn and Gandalf, so that part is consistent with canon. But the K-D questers were specifically sent by the White Council to check out what happened to Balin, and the Dwarrowdelf questers were specifically sent by Elrond to check out what's behind the increased orc activity there. It's not plausible that the party would succeed at their brutally difficult task, yet not finish the job by reporting back; and Elrond/White Council never think to follow up.

Still, that's only if you succeed. If you die trying to perform your task, it's perfectly consistent with canon .

Quote:
The mission to escort Arwen over the mountains is straight from the appendix.


True, but that was in 2951, while Balin did not go to Moria until 2989. Of course, it's possible that Dwarrowdelf is in fact set *much* earlier than the Deluxe, though (if successful) that's a long time for word never to get back to Elrond about the balrog.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
john m
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is there good replayability? Of do you have to keep buying expansions?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Camille Pouliquen
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Good replayability to me. We want both to build new decks and play over some scenario. So there is many good reason to play over and over to this game ^^.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnyLikesGames wrote:
Is there good replayability? Of do you have to keep buying expansions?


With just the base game alone I'd say replayability is somewhat limited -- there's only three scenarios, the first is easy, and the third really wants 2+ players IMO. So if you're a single deck solo player only the second quest is highly replayable, and once you've beaten it with all 20 three-hero sphere combinations I'd consider it played out with that card pool. (Caveat -- which heroes you use can dramatically alter the feel of the deck, but by the time you've beaten it so many times you should have substantial experience with each hero.) Playing with two decks adds more sphere combinations, but the necessity of filling out two decks will make the practical variation in the decks less. (However, it does add a second quest that's worth playing.)

But it'll take a long time for a new player to play out the core, and I think most players who like the game will buy expansions well before that happens. And once you start buying expansions, the quests multiply and the hero/deck combinations explode. I've long ago reached the point where it won't be possible to exhaust the game in my lifetime; but I still look forward to new content anyways.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Susan Martin
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A living card game (lcg) is designed to be living. Meaning that they keep producing quests and you keep buying them. If you like the game, you're going to want to keep buying expansions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S R
Germany
flag msg tools
What I never understood, is that in appendix A III, Dúrin's Folk, Dáin sees Dúrin's Bane and dissuades Thráin from retaking Moria after the Battle of Azanulbizar, yet he never tells the White Council of it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drachenfreund wrote:
What I never understood, is that in appendix A III, Dúrin's Folk, Dáin sees Dúrin's Bane and dissuades Thráin from retaking Moria after the Battle of Azanulbizar, yet he never tells the White Council of it.


Dain never attends the White Council -- however, Balin left *from* Erebor, so if Dain had recognized Durin's Bane as a balrog, he could've let Balin know what he was up against.

Still, he might not have recognized him for what he was. That *something* bad was in Moria would have been well known to the White Council -- after all, it had slain Durin IV and Nain I, and chased the dwarves out of Moria. Celeborn tells the company that they had long feared a terror under Caradhras, and is only dismayed that the dwarves had stirred it up again.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ancestral Hamster
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drachenfreund has a point. It seems Dain had the knowledge but did not tell Balin.

From Appendix A, after the Battle of Azanulbizar

said Dain "... Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come from before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

From Book II, Chapter 2 "The Council of Elrond", The Fellowship of the Ring

Gloin sighed. "At last, Balin listened to the whispers, and resolved to go; and though Dain did not give leave willingly, he took with him Ori and Oin and many of our folk, and they went their way south."

Since Balin needed Dain's permission to undertake this venture, it is odd that Dain forgot to mention that Durin's Bane still lurked in Moria. That is the perfect reason for denying Balin's request.

Breaking the 4th wall, Professor Tolkien simply forgot to correct this inconsistency.

dalestephenson wrote:
Drachenfreund wrote:
What I never understood, is that in appendix A III, Dúrin's Folk, Dáin sees Dúrin's Bane and dissuades Thráin from retaking Moria after the Battle of Azanulbizar, yet he never tells the White Council of it.


Dain never attends the White Council -- however, Balin left *from* Erebor, so if Dain had recognized Durin's Bane as a balrog, he could've let Balin know what he was up against.

Still, he might not have recognized him for what he was. That *something* bad was in Moria would have been well known to the White Council -- after all, it had slain Durin IV and Nain I, and chased the dwarves out of Moria. Celeborn tells the company that they had long feared a terror under Caradhras, and is only dismayed that the dwarves had stirred it up again.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Drachenfreund has a point. It seems Dain had the knowledge but did not tell Balin.

From Appendix A, after the Battle of Azanulbizar

said Dain "... Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come from before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

From Book II, Chapter 2 "The Council of Elrond", The Fellowship of the Ring

Gloin sighed. "At last, Balin listened to the whispers, and resolved to go; and though Dain did not give leave willingly, he took with him Ori and Oin and many of our folk, and they went their way south."

Since Balin needed Dain's permission to undertake this venture, it is odd that Dain forgot to mention that Durin's Bane still lurked in Moria. That is the perfect reason for denying Balin's request.


I think we should be careful not to read too much into what is not said. Gloin states that Dain did "not give leave willingly", so there *must* have been some pushback from Dain. It's also likely that there were witnesses to the exchange between Dain and Thrain, as it happened when Thrain "stood before them" [the victors], and Dain in his response spoke not just for himself, but for his kinsfolk. Balin was four years older than Dain and kin to Thrain II, it is quite possible he too was present at the battle.

And really the only new information that Dain could possibly give about Durin's Bane from one glance inside the gate is that it was still active, over eight hundred years after it had driven Durin's Folk from Moria. But there must have been many among the survivors who fled Moria in 1981 with more practical experience with Durin's Bane, who had actively destroyed the richest and most powerful dwarf kingdom. If it wasn't known that it was a balrog already, how could a young dwarf like Dain tell from a glance? There's no evidence that anyone thought that Durin's Bane was a creature that could be expected to die of natural causes; the hope seems to be that it would just go back to sleep or something. Here's the exchange with Celeborn:
---
"An evil of the Ancient World it seemed, such as I have never seen before," said Aragorn. "It was both a shadow and a flame, strong and terrible."

"It was a Balrog of Morgoth," said Legolas; "of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower."

"Indeed I saw upon the bridge that which haunts our darkest dreams, I saw Durin's Bane," said Gimli in a low voice, and dread was in his eyes.

"Alas!" said Celeborn. "We long have feared that under Caradhras a terror slept. But had I known that the Dwarves had stirred up this evil in MOria again, I would have forbidden you to pass the northern borders, you and all that went with you."
---
FWIW, the idea that the terror slept was not as naive as it may appear -- both Aragorn and Gandalf had passed through Moria after the battle without encountering or sensing the Balrog, and there is no hint of the Balrog in the account of the end of Balin's colony. Orcs and the watcher in the water were sufficient to doom them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S R
Germany
flag msg tools
dalestephenson wrote:
Dain never attends the White Council -- however, Balin left *from* Erebor, so if Dain had recognized Durin's Bane as a balrog, he could've let Balin know what he was up against.

Still, he might not have recognized him for what he was. That *something* bad was in Moria would have been well known to the White Council -- after all, it had slain Durin IV and Nain I, and chased the dwarves out of Moria. Celeborn tells the company that they had long feared a terror under Caradhras, and is only dismayed that the dwarves had stirred it up again.


I know, that Dáin was not part of the White Council, but considering that Thórin asked for Gandalf's help to reclaim Erebor, it is not implausible for Dáin to tell Gandalf of Dúrin's Bane in Moria.
By the way, I think you mean Dúrin VI.

Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Drachenfreund has a point. It seems Dain had the knowledge but did not tell Balin.

From Appendix A, after the Battle of Azanulbizar

said Dain "... Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come from before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

From Book II, Chapter 2 "The Council of Elrond", The Fellowship of the Ring

Gloin sighed. "At last, Balin listened to the whispers, and resolved to go; and though Dain did not give leave willingly, he took with him Ori and Oin and many of our folk, and they went their way south."

Since Balin needed Dain's permission to undertake this venture, it is odd that Dain forgot to mention that Durin's Bane still lurked in Moria. That is the perfect reason for denying Balin's request.

Breaking the 4th wall, Professor Tolkien simply forgot to correct this inconsistency.


There are many inconsistencies in Tolkien's writings, especially in the works which his son published posthumously. After all he created a myth that accounts for several thousand years and it is quite possible, he missed a few things. Also do not forget, he changed his mind every now and then.

dalestephenson wrote:
I think we should be careful not to read too much into what is not said. Gloin states that Dain did "not give leave willingly", so there *must* have been some pushback from Dain. It's also likely that there were witnesses to the exchange between Dain and Thrain, as it happened when Thrain "stood before them" [the victors], and Dain in his response spoke not just for himself, but for his kinsfolk. Balin was four years older than Dain and kin to Thrain II, it is quite possible he too was present at the battle.


I am pretty sure, that Balin and Glóin both participated in the Battle of Azanulbizar. The appendix says: "So Thráin and Thorin with what remained of their following (among whom were Balin and Glóin) returned to Dunland(...)". Interestingly Glóin was only 16 years old in 2799, as even Dáin was considered young with 30 years.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.