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KeyForge: Call of the Archons» Forums » General

Subject: Meh, Bleh, First impression rss

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Siyano Fisher
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After my first few game yesterday, I can't say I very like this game, the gameplay seem to be a bit bland, there barely real thing to do, and if you are stuck with a bad deck, then you have to buy another.

Like https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/71060ca8-c5c4-40b6... this deck just sucks to me, there nothing good beside 2 or 3 strong card. Feels like just a bunch of card put together without any kind of synergy or interaction with each other.

Also, how can this game be balanced? maybe i'm missing something, but I had game where my opponent put a 5 power, 8 power and 4 power with brobnar when my biggest is like 4 power or 6 with Staunch Knight, how can I rivalise against a 8 that can kill 2 or 3 or my creature and let not talk about its ability to heal (Reap: heal 3 damage), he even put +5 power on it, so its was basically unkillable unless I get my one of destroy.

Bleh, I will maybe give another try with some more people and deck, but for now, this is not a good start for such a great designer
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Sky Zero
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Sounds like the game’s just not for you. Good thing there’s hundreds of thousands others. Pick one.
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Siyano Fisher
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skyzero wrote:
Sounds like the game’s just not for you. Good thing there’s hundreds of thousands others. Pick one.


well? what was your point? obviously, there is other games, I was giving my opinion on this "hyped" new game designed by Garfield.
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Matthew S.
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This is your second thread complaining in two days. Are you planning to post a new one every day? It triggers a subscription notification each time for people who are fans of the game.
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Stephen Jacobsen
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I'm no expert deck analyzer, but I have played the game a bunch. I see some decent potential synergies and good cards.

First thing to remember- this game is about crafting keys, not killing things. If your opponent is just smashing things to pieces, they are less likely to be generating aember.

From your deck: Cards like Bouncing Deathquark, Orbital Bombardment, Charge are decent counters to big creatures (not as nice as some of the board wiping cards). Phase Shift is a potential facilitator to some big turns. Grey Monk is amazing (remember he boosts himself). I love Zyzzix (and you have two!).

Without playing it, I can't say how good it is, but at first glance, I don't think it's terrible. I've had decks that I didn't like at first, but now enjoy immensely after learning how to play them.

As the above poster said, at the end of the day, it just may be that the game isn't for you, and that's just fine.

Edit:
There are several games in the top-100 that I find bland and way over-hyped. That's great, because I still get to play many of my favorites often (many of which I'm certain other people find bland and over-hyped), and those other people get to enjoy their favorites.
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Darin Bolyard
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Siyano wrote:
... and if you are stuck with a bad deck, then you have to buy another.

Like https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/71060ca8-c5c4-40b6... this deck just sucks to me, there nothing good beside 2 or 3 strong card...

If you're sellin', I'm buyin'

I suppose postage between us would be aweful. Shame, I'm diggin' that deck.
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Siyano Fisher
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yikes guys dont be so defensive, I know that the point of the game is to forge key, but you can't forge key if you dont get any amber and you either need card that give it and creature to reap, if you cant stand with any creature because you opponent if just killing them easily every turn.
Anyway, I dont care, I just sell it back and like you said, play the thousand other games
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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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I see some potential for the deck.

Did you play online or in person?
 
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Darin Bolyard
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Since the deck was posted...

Played at Crucible online, and confirmed that I do like this deck. It's got some fun tricks up its sleeve.

Opponent deck: Shupheus Zod-Jyxhea, Whale

Here's a screenshot of the final game state:

As you can see, my opponent finished with a stronger board presence, but that went back and forth throughout the game. I just finished a turn with a major aember gain from Cleansing Wave. My opponent conceded at 1 key to my 2 with nothing to stop me from forging my third. This deck has some chutzpah!

As for your concern that it appears to be just pile of cards in a subpar arrangement, consider this: Everyone is in the same boat. This isn't a game where every card is going to be given its most optimum pairings/groupings with other cards. And sure, some decks may be generally better than others, but Keyforge is about taking a tool...or deck, and learning how to use it to its potential. It's a challenge not to be taken too seriously.

If you're at all willing to give Keyforge a fair shake in its own right, then play with confidence with this↑ deck. In just one game, I felt that it has plenty of syngergies. ←This coming from someone who likes to take decks perceived as "weak" and test them out to find out what they can do.

edit: Seriously, if you decide not to keep it, I can help your marketplace rating
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MGS
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Siyano wrote:
yikes guys dont be so defensive, I know that the point of the game is to forge key, but you can't forge key if you dont get any amber and you either need card that give it and creature to reap, if you cant stand with any creature because you opponent if just killing them easily every turn.
Anyway, I dont care, I just sell it back and like you said, play the thousand other games


Your deck is better than the decks I usually play but this doesn’t prevent me from being crazy about the game. I have gotten really good at some pretty bad decks. I try to execute my plan the best I can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

It is easy to understand that you haven’t enjoyed the game because you don’t think the decisions are interesting. You lose me when you remark that your deck is not good enough - this makes me wonder if you don’t like the game or if you don’t like to lose (sorry). Your complaint that the game can’t be balanced because of power and board presence neither of which is necessarily decisive of a game makes me wonder how much you inderstand how the game plays.

I really think the guys/gals are right, this game doesn’t appear to be for you. I’ll tell you, it is a wonderful game. A lot of interesting decisions that go far beyond playing the cards in hand and the ones on the table. You play thinking about yours and your opponet’s deck as a whole.

Remember that the best Magic and Hearthstone players’ have a win rate around 67%. At the end of the day, this is a card game and you will not enjoy it if you can’t accept this.

If your opponent’s deck + skill are consistently kicking your butt and the imbalance is frustrating to you, try giving him some chains. Or, switch decks if he is interested. From what I am hearing, this might just surprise you, seeing what another player might be able to do with it.

In the end, if you don’t like how the game plays, theee is nothing you can do about it. I wouldn’t blame the game, I have been a BGG regular since 2005 and after playing hundreds of games, from tic-tac-toe to Magic Realm, KeyForge is the best of them all.
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Max Maloney
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Ronaldo wrote:
Your deck is better than the decks I usually play but this doesn’t prevent me from being crazy about the game. I have gotten really good at some pretty bad decks. I try to execute my plan the best I can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

I do think the way you’ve been playing the game, two players delving deep with a small pool of decks, is the best way to play.

After two sealed events, I’ve found that opening decks and battling blind feels too random. It’s simply not realistic to figure out the best way to play a KeyForge deck on the fly, so the ones that have the best direct strategy and base matchups have a huge advantage. The outcome feels random.

Getting into a few decks let’s you not only learn how to work around their idoscyncracies, but also how to beat them from across the table.
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Paul Sauberer
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Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"
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Chris Steele
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Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"


Siyano rates nearly everything between a 5-7, seems to find most things average except... Magic The Gathering, which is a 10 for him (only one of 2 games out of 855 reviews). KeyForge is a 6, "meh, this game is quite bland, just some miss match of random stuff together that doesnt work much. I ll rather play magic"

And that's fine, just not sure why it's worth posting about how "bleh" you find a game unless you're just trying to be contrary. I personally would rate MtG a 4 ("not so good - but would play again"). But I'm not going to the MtG forums and talking about how "bleh" the game is. There's no need to "Yuck someone's yum."


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Santi Velasco
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Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"


I bet more or less as many as "Why can't I deckbuild in this no-deckbuilding game?" ones.
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Max Maloney
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srcabeza wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"

I bet more or less as many as "Why can't I deckbuild in this no-deckbuilding game?" ones.

And as many as, “I hate Magic, so I love this!” There’s a lot of baggage that comes with games in this genre.
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Sven Siewert
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I agree on the postings before.

One thing more:
Siyano wrote:
Also, how can this game be balanced?

Balance isn't a thing which you can judge by a handful of games here.
Of course are not all decks at one level nor must be any deck able to beat any other deck. There are "better" decks out there, sure.

Might be a point you complain about cause you don't like - okay. (Even when i say: just collect more experience before you complain.)

But this is an explicit part of of the whole game.
It's not a single keyforge match that gives you the overall experience - it's more than this.

(side-question: is MTG "balanced"? I played it at higher level for a couple of years at the end of the 90's - and would say: no, it is not. You might have the feeling that you can balance it because of the part of deckbuilding, but also in MTG you will have anti-decks, bad match-ups and typical top decking aspects. And so on...)

Have a look around the single match.
In MTG you build lists and therefore have a part of "control". Its part of the game. All players have the possibility. Still you must analyze, but when you swim in "the meta" and know all the current stuff that is secondary - you might even not to know all the cards.
(in addition: have also differences between constructed and sealed in mind)

In Keyforge you have to analyze all the time from zero, your (new) deck, your (unknown) opponents deck. To be better, you have to know all the cards and possible combos (which can appear, but can't be built). The key then is that you have to gain control on the particular deck mixture. Get the best out of those "unique" stuff - versus another "unique" stuff.
Obviously you can't get the level of "control" as you might be able in MTG, but this one of the challenges of this game.

Both are indeed different.
Lot of people say: don't compare them. I know you can't play both without comparing some parts.
But you'll have to see things in a different light.
Balance for example. Structure. Designers intention.

Don't judge by pure feelings.
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Siyano got some valid points.
Why are you fanboy-hating on him?

Discussing the decks is very helpful. I like to read what dbolyard writes a lot. Inspiring stuff. Explanation of good vs. bad points is also good.

Accusing people of wanting Keyforge to be like Magic and all that is not getting us anywhere. There are some lessons that Keyforge should have taken from Magic and sadly did not (rules and wording clarity is the main one). Keyforge is not Magic and I do not think that anyone expects it to be.

That Keyforge attracts people who also like Magic and who will compare it to that game should not be a surprise.
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Santi Velasco
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Si Fei wrote:
Accusing people of wanting Keyforge to be like Magic and all that is not getting us anywhere. There are some lessons that Keyforge should have taken from Magic and sadly did not (rules and wording clarity is the main one). Keyforge is not Magic and I do not think that anyone expects it to be.


Actually, there are loads of people that approach Keyforge expecting it to be MtG 2.0, this forum is full of posts discussing it ad nauseam. Now, there is nothing wrong in not liking Keyforge and preferring MtG instead, but if you play Keyforge with a Magic mindset, you can't be surprised if the experience is less than stellar. This is not an "accusation", is just plain showing him why he couldn't make it work and how to improve (supposing he's still interested).
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David Pereira
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It’s about adaptation. I don’t regard your deck as a weak one.

You have creatures with armour, Zorg, Foggify to help you stay alive when needed and with bouncing deathquark you can destroy creatures from you and opponent if you think they’re are better is a good trade off. Just try to put the mantle of the zealot on Zorg and see what happens.

Also to note you are complaining about a creature that when reaps heals 3 damage from you’re opponent but when reaping they are not fighting and you have 2 artifacts that heal 3 damage each. And also shield of justice which can make you a fighting turn without any damage received to clean the table.

One of the things I like it’s to demolish a deck, sometimes with players blaming the bad fortune on the deck itself, and then I play with the supposed weak deck to discover that it’s not so weak after all, its most of a time an adaptation to the play style of the deck.

That being said I own a deck that’s reaaly strong and won more than 3 times in 4 turns, a rare condition but sometimes it will encounter a deck that completely overcomes it.

I think what drawns me to the game it’s the completely overpowered cards it has and the only way this is possible it’s because your deck cannot be changed, there’s no deck construction here and in doing so it’s a new approach to the genre.

 
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Joseph Pinkley
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Dormammu wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"

I bet more or less as many as "Why can't I deckbuild in this no-deckbuilding game?" ones.

And as many as, “I hate Magic, so I love this!” There’s a lot of baggage that comes with games in this genre.


This is so true. KeyForge can stand on its own feet. Taking jabs at Magic, just cheapens the game. I wish people would just stop bashing it. Especially since the vast majority of the criticisms come with a heavy load of ignorance.
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Jack Spirio
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Dormammu wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"

I bet more or less as many as "Why can't I deckbuild in this no-deckbuilding game?" ones.

And as many as, “I hate Magic, so I love this!” There’s a lot of baggage that comes with games in this genre.


heavent't read that here much, while the other 2 come by often
 
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Jack Spirio wrote:
Dormammu wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Is there a running total of posts that boil down to

"I want to play Magic with KeyForge. That doesn't work so KeyForge stinks?"

I bet more or less as many as "Why can't I deckbuild in this no-deckbuilding game?" ones.

And as many as, “I hate Magic, so I love this!” There’s a lot of baggage that comes with games in this genre.


heavent't read that here much, while the other 2 come by often


Quite possibly, confirmation bias.
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Matt Connellan
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I’ll beat you with your own deck anytime good sir. Feel free to find me on crucible.
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Peter Svendsen
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I like the gameplay, but I agree that the decks seem very imbalanced. Not only that but the individual houses seem very imbalanced.


At a tournament I noticed many games are one-sided.
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