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Subject: New Moderation System and Policy rss

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Bryan Thunkd
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
IMunky wrote:


Actually because of the way you write i have 0 interest in having a conversation with you so i will just leave this thread now and do other stuff.

Man, the "everyone should be able to say what they like" crowd are awfully fucking fragile.
I find it amusing that they're also the crowd that advocates that instead of making a fuss about problems online, you should just go make your own games that include the elements you want to see... i.e. shut up about it, go away and do something that's easy to ignore so I don't have to listen to you. But they'll be the first to cry about censorship.
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Jeff Johnson
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Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
 
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TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
Most threads die a quiet death. That's got nothing to do with the Complaints Forum, which is actually a fairly active forum.
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TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:

Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
Are you kidding me? The Complaint Department denizens will latch on to this to increase their stats. This thread, which was losing steam anyway, just got a new lease on life!
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Désirée Greverud
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fifteenkeys wrote:
TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:

Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
Are you kidding me? The Complaint Department denizens will latch on to this to increase their stats. This thread, which was losing steam anyway, just got a new lease on life!
The Complaint Department is like RSP for the cool kids
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Jamie Hankins
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TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
GSReis wrote:
It would be helpful to post the changes or link to where they are stated or discussed. But I have noticed posts being deleted recently - including a pretty harmless meme from me. To make things worse, the deletions seem to target much more often posts that disagree with certain political views.

I don't know that it is stated anywhere. But there's been a definite change. Some threads have dozens of deleted posts, where before there was a much smaller number of hidden posts.

Comments are hidden when enough people report them (you can then chose to view them or alter your profile settings so they can aren't hidden by default). That's separate from the active moderation on the forums.

I used to see threads that acquired a political slant being dumped into the RSP forums, whereas the more recent examples have had the political content deleted. The overt reason for this is because of the objectionable nature of those political tangents, but I can't help but wonder if it's because the relevant posters have already been banned from RSP.

It's one thing bumping a thread with political content over to RSP so people can discuss it over there, but it would be silly to move a thread to the RSP forum when the handful of posters responsible for derailing those threads (by introducing political tangents) are banned from commenting in the RSP forums.
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Pete
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TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:

Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
There's a thriving ecosystem down here!

Pete (wouldn't fret)
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Bryan Thunkd
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Page 20 of the "Sexualized Art - A Poll" thread consists of a single post now. lol
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Alright all,

I’m a volunteer admin, who doesn’t go anywhere near moderation and is really just another user of the site with a couple extra buttons.

As a user here's my understanding and thoughts:

There’s been no change in the rules or criteria of moderated content, only the tools used in moderation. Now individual posts can and are being removed, with a note left in their place. The aim is to stop derailment of threads and remove material deemed to break site rules. See Rules.

Most people will not be effected and can go about as normal.

Who’s it good for:

i) People that want to communicate with others in a respectful and considerate manner. Whether agreeing or disagreeing.
ii) People that want to avoid topics and forms of expression that needlessly create division and disunity.
iii) People who don’t want their thread getting derailed by the injection of divisive topics or infighting.
iv) Removing material which might trigger another user into saying or doing something which they’ll regret.

What it is bad for:


i) It’s bad for ‘car crashes’ - We’ve all slowed down (subscribed) to look into a particular thread just to see the trouble.

ii) Absolute Transparency -

There is no change to how the site handles the account outcomes of moderation or it’s criteria, as in the past the vast majority of cases, done in private.

This new system makes it more difficult to see what was said and by whom. This is the big cost for the rewards we receive above. The buck stops with the Community Manager, Octavian, whom I think the great majority of users who have had dealings with will agree, perhaps grudgingly, is fair. If you ever feel that you've been treated unfairly I'd recommend contacting Octavian directly.

iii) Users that liked being seen creating drama by derailing threads, injecting divisive topics or attacking other users. This behaviour is no longer rewarded by being left up for all to see. Likewise, users that want to express their opinions in ways that are disrespectful, unkind or derailing to the thread or express opinions that in themselves are offensive, no longer have an audience.

On political bias I’m not convinced. BGG’s starting point, IMO, is:
i) All people are equal
ii) All people must be treated with respect
iii) All people should be treated kindly

Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.


We should strive to create and cultivate a community that embodies these values. I think the new moderation tools will help in this end, while making the site a nicer place. meeple
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Jeff Johnson
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Thunkd wrote:
Page 20 of the "Sexualized Art - A Poll" thread consists of a single post now. lol

That's hilarious. All that's left is pictures of Conan the Barbarian.
 
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Olli Juhala
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Wight1984 wrote:
TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
GSReis wrote:
It would be helpful to post the changes or link to where they are stated or discussed. But I have noticed posts being deleted recently - including a pretty harmless meme from me. To make things worse, the deletions seem to target much more often posts that disagree with certain political views.

I don't know that it is stated anywhere. But there's been a definite change. Some threads have dozens of deleted posts, where before there was a much smaller number of hidden posts.

Comments are hidden when enough people report them (you can then chose to view them or alter your profile settings so they can aren't hidden by default). That's separate from the active moderation on the forums.

The hiding red-x'd comments has an unfortunate effect of applying to all content equally, basically meaning that while it will allow you to report and hide actual rules violations, it also let's dedicated groups of users to bury non-violations out of spite.
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Rich Keiser
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Abiezer Coppe wrote:
IMunky wrote:


Actually because of the way you write i have 0 interest in having a conversation with you so i will just leave this thread now and do other stuff.

Man, the "everyone should be able to say what they like" crowd are awfully fucking fragile.

Twigs wrapped with crunchy leaves.
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Rich Keiser
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plezercruz wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
Not aware that there is a new moderation system and policy, and so far, this thread hasn't been able to point out that there has been any, apart from in the head of the OP.

If there is a new policy, then let's hear it. I'm probably not affected anyway,though.

The new system is that mods are stretching the site rules to remove posts. A post that contains no personal attacks or vulgarity will be labeled "disruptive" and removed because it does not conform to the preferred narrative.
I'm seeing instances where people are being rude and antagonistic and not being moderated because they're on the "favored side" of a debate, and because the new moderation method isn't well suited to properly deal with that particular transgression.

Pete (doesn't care so much because he's generally on the side of the rude person, but still notices it)

I don't have numbers on that, so anecdotal like your observation, but if someone's post gets Red X'd, then the mods review it. Most likely what is happening (a guess) is that since the "unmoderated disruptor" in in the majority, they aren't getting a Red X from the majority of participants in that thread. But, if they get at lease one for the mods to review AND they are exhibiting the behavior you indicate, they will get moderated. I don't believe that the moderators lean any philosophical way, nor give pass to anyone they favor, when judging behavior. If its disruptive, then its disruptive.

Now, some posters are just more clever when they post, so their behavior may not be blatantly disruptive, so they win because they are smart at applying their words.
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Chris
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Razoupaf wrote:


It's not like we could block people we don't agree with off, right? Like we were grown up able to deal with different opinions in a variety of ways the site and our intelligence already provided.


This +1 ...

They provide you with a tool to do just that; right?
 
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plezercruz wrote:
TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:

Well, we got sent to the basement. This thread will now die a quiet death.
There's a thriving ecosystem down here!

Pete (wouldn't fret)

Here, let me fertilize it in plain view of all the attendees.

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Rich Keiser
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Shader10 wrote:
Wight1984 wrote:
TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
GSReis wrote:
It would be helpful to post the changes or link to where they are stated or discussed. But I have noticed posts being deleted recently - including a pretty harmless meme from me. To make things worse, the deletions seem to target much more often posts that disagree with certain political views.

I don't know that it is stated anywhere. But there's been a definite change. Some threads have dozens of deleted posts, where before there was a much smaller number of hidden posts.

Comments are hidden when enough people report them (you can then chose to view them or alter your profile settings so they can aren't hidden by default). That's separate from the active moderation on the forums.

The hiding red-x'd comments has an unfortunate effect of applying to all content equally, basically meaning that while it will allow you to report and hide actual rules violations, it also let's dedicated groups of users to bury non-violations out of spite.

Yeah, but moderators aren't stupid, and I'm sure they would slap down a weak version of the Droogs if it were identified. Sure, it happens, but who the fuck cares if a bunch of high school cliques get you Red-Xd. This is site about toys with completely inconsequential threads, like this one... if one gets moderated, who really gives a shit?

In short, don't equate this site with any semblance of life or reality or import. That should be left for the real world.
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Pete
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Thunkd wrote:
Page 20 of the "Sexualized Art - A Poll" thread consists of a single post now. lol
Having been a part of that, I don't even think there was any objectionable content on that page. There was a side-discussion, but I didn't think it wasn't exactly derailing.

Pete (cracked a couple of his usual idiotic jokes in there)
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Pete
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Alright all,

I’m a volunteer admin, who doesn’t go anywhere near moderation and is really just another user of the site with a couple extra buttons.

As a user here's my understanding and thoughts:

There’s been no change in the rules or criteria of moderated content, only the tools used in moderation. Now individual posts can and are being removed, with a note left in their place. The aim is to stop derailment of threads and remove material deemed to break site rules. See Rules.

Most people will not be effected and can go about as normal.

Who’s it good for:

i) People that want to communicate with others in a respectful and considerate manner. Whether agreeing or disagreeing.
ii) People that want to avoid topics and forms of expression that needlessly create division and disunity.
iii) People who don’t want their thread getting derailed by the injection of divisive topics or infighting.
iv) Removing material which might trigger another user into saying or doing something which they’ll regret.

What it is bad for:


i) It’s bad for ‘car crashes’ - We’ve all slowed down (subscribed) to look into a particular thread just to see the trouble.

ii) Absolute Transparency -

There is no change to how the site handles the account outcomes of moderation or it’s criteria, as in the past the vast majority of cases, done in private.

This new system makes it more difficult to see what was said and by whom. This is the big cost for the rewards we receive above. The buck stops with the Community Manager, Octavian, whom I think the great majority of users who have had dealings with will agree, perhaps grudgingly, is fair. If you ever feel that you've been treated unfairly I'd recommend contacting Octavian directly.

iii) Users that liked being seen creating drama by derailing threads, injecting divisive topics or attacking other users. This behaviour is no longer rewarded by being left up for all to see. Likewise, users that want to express their opinions in ways that are disrespectful, unkind or derailing to the thread or express opinions that in themselves are offensive, no longer have an audience.

On political bias I’m not convinced. BGG’s starting point, IMO, is:
i) All people are equal
ii) All people must be treated with respect
iii) All people should be treated kindly

Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.


We should strive to create and cultivate a community that embodies these values. I think the new moderation tools will help in this end, while making the site a nicer place. meeple
Just my two cents on the moderation change:

What it's really good for:
Managing RSP nonsense, and in particular, silencing the anti-inclusion trolls.

What it's really bad at:
Almost literally everything else on the site.

Pete (thinks it's your site...he just visits here)
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

A rule against "disruption" or "personal attacks" is content neutral - it doesn't matter what you're disrupting or who you're personally attacking, it's not allowed.

The new moderation takes those ostensibly neutral rules and uses them as a weapon in favor of certain viewpoints.
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Jeff Johnson
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grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

He's saying that the rules may be neutral, but the implementation is not. I have to agree. And it doesn't matter a whit if I agree with the side that's favored. Unless a view is reprehensible, I don't think it should be censored (if politely expressed).
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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Lemur wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:


It's not like we could block people we don't agree with off, right? Like we were grown up able to deal with different opinions in a variety of ways the site and our intelligence already provided.


This +1 ...

They provide you with a tool to do just that; right?

Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
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Russ Williams
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
On the front page, see the "Edit Front Page" link in the red Announcements bar; that should let you remove RSP from your front page. (I think that's the only forum where some people aren't allowed to post?)
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