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Subject: New Moderation System and Policy rss

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Rich Keiser
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

A rule against "disruption" or "personal attacks" is content neutral - it doesn't matter what you're disrupting or who you're personally attacking, it's not allowed.

The new moderation takes those ostensibly neutral rules and uses them as a weapon in favor of certain viewpoints.

You have a point, and the viewpoints that are being derezzed are negative and unwelcome on this site, as they typically are exclusionary, isolating, or destructive in their intent.

Not all ideas are worth listening to - if I were a child and never heard them before, I would contradict this point. As an adult, I know exactly the target, intent, and effect of the comment, as I have experienced/read/discussed/debated them many times before. The defenders of all things are allowed are obviously grappling with elementary logic and little life experience, trying to blow smoke to someone who has moved far beyond that juvenile POV, telling them its all stardust and Unicorn farts.

The attempt to be clever by half at "all ideas deserve expression" are great for new ideas. Stale, negative, and destructive dribble doesn't deserve the attention, bandwidth, or time of day.

No matter how you dress it up, wrap it in whatever "Rights Cloak", its still shite. And shite deserves to be scraped and ditched.



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Marc Nelson Jr.
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russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.

I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).
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Rich Keiser
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.

I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).

Here's a pro-tip.

Don't click on the thread in which you don't care about.

I utilize this at least 2000 times per day. It doesn't take any effort.
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Martijn Broeren
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plezercruz wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
Page 20 of the "Sexualized Art - A Poll" thread consists of a single post now. lol
Having been a part of that, I don't even think there was any objectionable content on that page. There was a side-discussion, but I didn't think it wasn't exactly derailing.

Pete (cracked a couple of his usual idiotic jokes in there)

I might have started this out-of-control spiral since I posted a strong disagreement with the topic starter. I didn't know it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters..? But it seems to be that all posts that have a different viewpoint in that thread get removed? I haven't logged in since 5 PM CET so I have missed it completely and don't have a glue what happened there.

Anyways, I for certain will not post anything in political threads again, that's for sure. I hope there will be enough content left on this site that's not going to be about politics.
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Russ Williams
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Marthian80 wrote:
I didn't know it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters..?
Yes, that's the only conceivable explanation someone might get moderated; it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters. There couldn't possibly be any other explanation. shake
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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darthhugo wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.

I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).

Here's a pro-tip.

Don't click on the thread in which you don't care about.

I utilize this at least 2000 times per day. It doesn't take any effort.

It's not that I don't care. I'd like to be able to post. The problem is that I'm not sure if posting there is going to get me moderated or not. So I'd rather not see it at all.
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Grant
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TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

He's saying that the rules may be neutral, but the implementation is not. I have to agree. And it doesn't matter a whit if I agree with the side that's favored. Unless a view is reprehensible, I don't think it should be censored (if politely expressed).
I can tell you from personal experience, I've had plenty of my posts deleted, and received my share of moderation messages, and I'm always on the "side" which you think never gets moderated.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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russ wrote:
Marthian80 wrote:
I didn't know it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters..?
Yes, that's the only conceivable explanation someone might get moderated; it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters.

That increasingly seems to be the case. Straying from the party line is labeled "disruption" or "derailment" and subject to deletion.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.
I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).
Wait, which other forums are you not allowed to post in?
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Grant
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
Marthian80 wrote:
I didn't know it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters..?
Yes, that's the only conceivable explanation someone might get moderated; it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters.

That increasingly seems to be the case.
It's not.
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Russ Williams
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
Marthian80 wrote:
I didn't know it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters..?
Yes, that's the only conceivable explanation someone might get moderated; it's against the BGG rules to disagree with topic starters.

That increasingly seems to be the case. Straying from the party line is labeled "disruption" or "derailment" and subject to deletion.
Huh? That's not what Marthian80 said. He was talking about disagreeing with the topic starter. You're talking about disagreeing with a "party line".


BTW I've been moderated too, and I'm on the "side" which you think never gets moderated.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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kuhrusty wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.
I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).
Wait, which other forums are you not allowed to post in?

Well, you can post anywhere. But there are certain areas where your posts seem more likely to be moderated and deleted - it's those I'm trying to block.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
Wait, which other forums are you not allowed to post in?
Well, you can post anywhere. But there are certain areas where your posts seem more likely to be moderated and deleted - it's those I'm trying to block.
Huh. (It doesn't seem accurate to characterize that as "not allowed.") I would suggest you stick to RSP, where the range of permissible topics is broader, but if you have trouble following the rules, you won't make it there either. (No idea whether you have the same posting style as the OP; the one prior interaction I remember having with him was in a thread where he was upset about being moderated for doing something an admin had just told him to not do.)
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.
I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).
Wait, which other forums are you not allowed to post in?

Well, you can post anywhere. But there are certain areas where your posts seem more likely to be moderated and deleted - it's those I'm trying to block.

I wonder if anyone could possibly guess which of BGG's sub-forums see more posts being removed than other sub-forums, and why those particular sub-forums get more trolls and sealions and overall antagonistic twits that seem determined to derail anything and everything found in those sub-forums, especially with regard to why those sub-forums exist in the first place, and why anyone should want to have the kinds of conversations that are found in those sub-forums...?
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Rich Keiser
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Given the new moderation, what I'd like is a tool to block entire threads, or entire forums. If I'm not allowed to post there, there's no reason for it to be clogging my front page.
The ability to block a thread or a forum has existed (in the Subscribe/Block pulldown) for years.

I can block them from my subscriptions. But I don't of any way of keeping certain threads or forums from showing up on the front page (in the Forums module).

Here's a pro-tip.

Don't click on the thread in which you don't care about.

I utilize this at least 2000 times per day. It doesn't take any effort.

It's not that I don't care. I'd like to be able to post. The problem is that I'm not sure if posting there is going to get me moderated or not. So I'd rather not see it at all.

It's like porn, you know it when you're posting it.

How about this lever/mechanism?

If you write something, read it over, then click submit, and then between 1s and 2m you have a feeling that you may got moderated for what you just posted... delete it.

Trust your gut, even if your Id is trying to say "ehhhh, its alright."

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Rich Keiser
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grant5 wrote:
TheGodsMustBeCrazy wrote:
grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

He's saying that the rules may be neutral, but the implementation is not. I have to agree. And it doesn't matter a whit if I agree with the side that's favored. Unless a view is reprehensible, I don't think it should be censored (if politely expressed).
I can tell you from personal experience, I've had plenty of my posts deleted, and received my share of moderation messages, and I'm always on the "side" which you think never gets moderated.

Yeah, these once around the block BGGers make me chuckle. They get scolded twice or three times and suddenly their's is a moral crisis in belief systems.

I have been moderated around 25+ times since I joined. That number may be conservative, but I think its kinda close.

In retrospect, I never balked at the punishment, because when I was honest with myself, I realized that I deserved it. Perhaps the first time I tried to argue it with the mods, but then I just realized that sometimes I am my own worst sidekick.

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Rich Keiser
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So, our research team has done their typical due diligence. We have decided that interaction in this thread is going to be wasted effort.

Everyone have a great holiday season. Remember that Egg Nog really is just diluted pancake batter. I would put a twist on this joke and add my Dave Attell punchline, but I don't feel like getting my Moderation Gift under the BGG Tree.

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It must be the holidays. The complaints are flowing.
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Rich Keiser
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Vrooman wrote:
It must be the holidays. The complaints are flowing.

Santa took a poop in my guest bathroom, and didn't flush.

I won't mention what his reindeers did down the side of my house! They are frisky little dudes.

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Rob Doupe
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The problem with the new moderation approach is certain ideological dogmas have been made sancrosanct. To question them brings down immediate sanction, regardless of the substance or tone of the challenge. And no, these dogmas aren't simply "treat everyone with respect." They're beliefs that maybe 10 per cent of people subscribe to.*

And that's something to keep in mind about social media culture wars. The participants think they're in a struggle where 50 per cent of people are pitted against 50 per cent. In reality, it's closer to 10 per cent vs 10 per cent, expressing beliefs and making arguments that 80 per pent of people find extreme and narrow- minded.

BGG mods used to kick the 10 per centers to RSP land. Now they've girded themselves in mail, unfurled banners, and become culture warriors themselves. I've seen this happen on other sites, and it doesn't end well.

* See the recently published Hidden Tribes study.
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Rob Doupe wrote:
The problem with the new moderation approach is certain ideological dogmas have been made sancrosanct. To question them brings down immediate sanction, regardless of the substance or tone of the challenge. And no, these dogmas aren't simply "treat everyone with respect." They're beliefs that maybe 10 per cent of people subscribe to.*

And that's something to keep in mind about social media culture wars. The participants think they're in a struggle where 50 per cent of people are pitted against 50 per cent. In reality, it's closer to 10 per cent vs 10 per cent, expressing beliefs and making arguments that 80 per pent of people find extreme and narrow- minded.

BGG mods used to kick the 10 per centers to RSP land. Now they've girded themselves in mail, unfurled banners, and become culture warriors themselves. I've seen this happen on other sites, and it doesn't end well.

* See the recently published Hidden Tribes study.
Your careful language says volumes about where you stand. Stop dancing around it. Their only “dogma” here is no racism/sexism/discrimination. If you think only 10% of people agree those things are undesirable and should be moderated, well, you’re way off.
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Going thirty-eight, Dan, chill the f*** out. Mow your damn lawn and sit the hell down.
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grant5 wrote:
Rob Doupe wrote:
The problem with the new moderation approach is certain ideological dogmas have been made sancrosanct. To question them brings down immediate sanction, regardless of the substance or tone of the challenge. And no, these dogmas aren't simply "treat everyone with respect." They're beliefs that maybe 10 per cent of people subscribe to.*

And that's something to keep in mind about social media culture wars. The participants think they're in a struggle where 50 per cent of people are pitted against 50 per cent. In reality, it's closer to 10 per cent vs 10 per cent, expressing beliefs and making arguments that 80 per pent of people find extreme and narrow- minded.

BGG mods used to kick the 10 per centers to RSP land. Now they've girded themselves in mail, unfurled banners, and become culture warriors themselves. I've seen this happen on other sites, and it doesn't end well.

* See the recently published Hidden Tribes study.
Your careful language says volumes about where you stand. Stop dancing around it. Their only “dogma” here is no racism/sexism/discrimination. If you think only 10% of people agree those things are undesirable and should be moderated, well, you’re way off.

It’s always amazed me how offended some people are by equality, and by people wanting to see themselves represented in the things they do. Just because someone thinks they have the right to spout bigoted crap, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to hear it.
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grant5 wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Some political perspectives and personal expression are not compatible with these values but it’s not because BGG has any additional political bias only a commitment to these values.

Like I said, the mods are using content-neutral rules to favor certain content while shutting down others.
Am I just getting tired, or is that statement completely nonsensical?

It is. Rules are and cannot be content neutral.

Edit: if one's political views challenge the very personhood of other users, it's going to be moderated, no matter how sincere.
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Pete
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Each time I've been moderated I had it coming. One time I was misunderstood, but it was totally my fault anyway.

Pete (has zero issues with the moderator himself, who does an exemplary job, all things considered)
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Vrooman wrote:
It must be the holidays. The complaints are flowing.

But the Airing of Grievances is supposed to happen after Festivus dinner on the 23rd. Some people are definitely ahead of schedule.
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