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Subject: A few things I noticed... rss

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Karl Kieninger
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So far so good after playing two scenarios. I'm not sure if it captures feel, because I'm not a big WWII buff. But it is playable and pretty and seems to do a pretty good job.

However, I did notice a few negatives regarding the components.

1. The tanks are too big. Three in a hex was fiddly to maneuver without bumping adjacent terrain. Four for the panzer elite made for a messy pile of tanks.

2. I placed most of the tiles and then had to check the backs because I came up one hedgerow short. I don't remember ever having to use the right front/back tiles in Battle Cry. Maybe I did, but don't remember it. Either way it would be nice for the scenario to warn you that you need at least one forest/hedgerow hex as hedgerow, or something like that.

3. The artillery units seem a little flimsy compared to the other units.

But the play was fun. Maybe the game is less forgiving than Battlecry.

Karl
 
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Eric Hautemont
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Frithuric (#37212),
The tanks were done at a large scale on purpose, so that they give the visual feel of being overwhelming when on an hex. if placed in an arrow or a losange, they still should fit on an hex.
For hex positionning: It is the issue in any game with double-sided hexes. They should be sorted in the order indicated on the scenario's side bar, from top to bottom,then placed on the map.
The artillery units seem small compared to tanks because we opted to do them in the same 10 mm scale, so that mini fanatics can go ahead and purchase metal equivalents from Perrin Miniatures. The soldiers are in 20 mm scale, only due to practical considerations (if done in scale with the tanks and artillery, they'd be almost impossible to grab and manipulate).
Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
eric
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Frithuric (#37212),

Do you know the dimensions of the hexes ot the tiles, flat side to flat side?


John
 
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Eric Hautemont
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Re:A few things I noticed...
scribidinus (#37241),
they are 2.2" inches (or 64 mm) across, flat to flat.
eric
 
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Ubergeek
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Erich (#37243),
As an interesting note, they are 1mm less per side (so 2mm total) than the Battle Cry hexes. You could actually use individual Battle Cry hex terrain on an M44 board, but putting more than 2 or 3 of BC terrain in a group causes problems with hex overlap.

Why would anyone want to do this? Well, for me, it just added a bit more variety having a different shaded hex for hill or woods. Some scenarios have hills that act as blocking terrain and cannot be entered. Some of the BC hexes work good to distinguish those as different from the M44 terrain.

Walt M.
 
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Eric Hautemont
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Walt Mulder (#37256),
Trust me I want roads almost as badly as you do
laugh
Eric
 
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Erich (#37258),
If you build them, they will come!
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I'll put them on my "to-do" list though I understand Richard's genius in deciding to leave them out (OK, genius is probably too strong a word; perhaps "purpose" would be a better choice.) Putting roads in will require another page of rules to deal with movement and combat situations, and would be better suited to Overlord size board scenarios.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Frithuric (#37212),

Just FYI: I've posted this other places but the hexes on the Advanced Deluxe Squad leader maps in Hedge Row Hell and Streets of Fire are almost exactly the same size as Battle Cry/M44 hexes. If I wasn't always so adamant about playing games EXACTLY as published it might give me an idea.
 
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Todd Goff
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Re:A few things I noticed...
That idea has been floating around in my for weeks.cool I plan on trying out the scenarios from those two modules once I play M44 "as is" for a few weeks.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Sir Loin o Beef (#37314),

I mentioned my profession in several posts but I have access to a very high end color copier/printer. I've considered copying section of the DASL maps and making new tiles for BC and M44 but I have been intimidated by the possibility of violating copyright laws and my own ineptness with scissors and glue.
 
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Re:A few things I noticed...
scribidinus (#37311),
Thanks, I've been trying to remember the name of the large-hex ASL games to find those boards. I'd love to try some stuff out on them with the C&C system.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Walt Mulder (#37353),

Hedge Row Hell had the bocage country terrain and Streets of Fire was the ubran terrain maps. Each game had 4 oversize geomorphic maps that were compatible with the other set. I bought two sprues of Attack Minis from the Eagles game store and have been privately messing around with a WW II game using these maps just because I think DDSL , Dumbed Down Squad Leader might be fun. Each mini is one tank, gun or 10 man squad. I use "special dice." I use 6, 8, 10 and 12 sided dice. It is just a very raw idea right now but different types of pieces get to roll different dice. In essence, a piece selects a target and rolls the proper die type. The number rolled must be greater than the range in hexes plus the defensive value of the targets terrain (or the armor value of the Target AFV) in order score a kill. I limit the number of pieces per hex to three of any type, no point crowding the board but each piece fires individually thus permitting "mixed platoons" of say one tank and two squads in a hex w/the tank providing a mobile defensive terrain modifier as cover for the squads. With the impending release of M44, I may not get any further with DDSL.
 
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Todd Goff
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Re:A few things I noticed...
My hope is to use the DASL boards, the set-ups and victory conditons for the ASL scenarios but use the C&C, M44 system to play it out.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Sir Loin o Beef (#37382),

Some of the DASL scenarios have lotsa infantry squads and more than one type of squad ,god love it, but not many AFV per scenario. The DASL game scale is 1 hex = 40 yards/1 turn = 2 minutes (very tactical) versus the indeterminate scale of the Richard Borg game engine. And there is a lot more terrain types so it would take some creative adjusting. Thus a US or German rifle squad had a normal range of 6 hexes in DASL and could fire at 1/2 strength out to 2X that. Which means tanks could shoot at anything they could see. Of course, short fields of fire is the nature of the terrain on the DASL maps. DASL Indirect Artillery fire was generally from Off Map except for mortars due to scale also. I say this not to discourage you because I've been thinking the same thing. I look forward to your comments and suggestions.
 
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Todd Goff
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Well, as I have never played ASL (just picked up the DASL mods at a thrift store) I may have my work cut out for me. I'm sure it will take some tinkering, especially adjusting to the unit representation of squads vs platoons and companies. The number of dice may have to be limited among other things.

These things may have to wait, I plan on enjoying each and every scenario Dow provides first.
 
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Dan Edwards
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Re:A few things I noticed...
The flexible nature of the scale in M44 might make the porting of scenarios easier, not harder. My guess is you would have to look at the overall situation in an ASL scenario, grab the crux of it (German tank heavy force attacks US ad hoc force in Ardennes, objective crossroads. Americans begin dug in, but due to second line nature US infantry starts with three figures. Treat air support card as move any two units due to fog.)

Plug in the general terrain, set the crossroads and an exit hex as medal hexes, and you have it.

Of course, the US handicap could be fewer cards in hand, reduced AT artillery effect (wimpy 57mm guns), whatever struck your fancy that made for a balanced game.

The idea will be to catch the feel of the scenario, not the exact TO/TE, IMHO.

The computer game, "Combat Mission" did well with fairly direct ASL/SL scenario ports, because of the similar level of detail, scale and scope. Doing the same with M44 won't be possible, but this shouldn't prevent using scenarios from ASL or other games as the basis or inspiration for M44 scenarios. Just think impressionist instead of realist.
 
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kevin long
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Re:A few things I noticed...
scribidinus (#37318),
spray glue and rotary cutter - the only way to go when making your own tiles! spray glue gets an even coat - rotary cutter gets it straight and with ease
 
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Not sure what a rotary cutter is, but an Xacto knife (or other heavy duy utility/modeling knife and a straight edge have always worked for me.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Bloodybucket (#37438),

I agree it would be easier to port the DASL scenarios to the M44 board and terrain rules than to play DASL scenarios on the rigid scale DASL boards with M44 rules and components. DASL has Wooden buildings, Stone Buildings, Hedgerows, stone walls, brush, grain fields, multi-level hills, roads, bridges, streams, marsh, orchards, woods, wooded hills, hills w/brush and ....I know there is more.

Scissors and Glue: I have found that 2mm craft foam is easier to cut than cardboard. I cut out a bunch of hex shaped pieces to put under the cardboard BC hill tiles. That's why I was asking about hex size, to see if my home grown accessories were compatible. I white-glued each of my BC Flag Bearers to a rectangular piece of tan 2mm craft foam. I can place up to 5 other BC Infantry figs on the "base" and move them all by picking the unit up by the flag.

Off the subject, but if a module dedicated to the British ever gets published, how many people besides myself would like to see Churchill tanks as the Brit armor? 25 pdrs for the Artillery? Maybe even a British henway?

Since the Germans made extensive use of assault guns, maybe STuG IIIs. Ok, I'm just wishing.

 
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Dan Edwards
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Re:A few things I noticed...
scribidinus (#37513),

I believe the armor figs are on a readily available scale, so replacing the provided pieces should be no problem, if you don't mind metal minis.

Of course, M44 could go down the expansion pack path of ASL. Would the market support an add on that included desert terrain tiles, more figures using different vehicles, with perhaps the Italians thrown in? Make it the North Africa/Sicily/Italy module. The Eastern front and the Pacific theater would probably require whole new games.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Re:A few things I noticed...
Bloodybucket (#37558),


Yeah. I know I could get anything I wanted. I was really just trying to get somebody to ask what's a British Henway?
 
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kevin long
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Re:A few things I noticed...
BradyLS (#37445),
i used a straight edge and knife for years - then i got a rotary cutter! check um out at a craft store - quicker by far and easier since the knife is the whole wheel - doesn't get dull for quite a while, and easy to sharpen if you get the smaller version, as you can find a sharpener for it - the self healing mats that come with it, change the whole idea of finding a safe surface to cut on and not cut the kitchen table - the mat has a grid on it for quick line up and right angles, as does the see thru straight edge - the straight edge covers enough surface theat holding it by the flat of the hand is enough to keep it from sliding - believe me, as a long time crafty guy and always fiddling with components and projects i i cut foam, foam board, rubber, cardboard etc. - i love my rotary cutter and it loves me you would think i invented it or get a "cut" on the profits
 
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Re:A few things I noticed...
I've used self-sealing mats to cut on for years, too! I'll have to check out the rotary cutter.
 
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