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Subject: How many valuable is a Greenery tile? rss

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Jack Taylor
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I'm working through some new strategies and I'm trying to figure out the math on certain card combinations, but I'm struggling to come up with good numbers for Greeneries. How much VP is a Greenery tile worth? How much MCr?

My intuition is that Greeneries are worth 2 VP, as that is the most likely amount of VP which can be earned in a standard situation. In terms of MCr, my guess would be something like 18. What do you think?
 
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Worth 1 TR each during end game scoring. You gain one TR during the game if you are able to raise the O2 when placing a greenery tile. Each tile will net you an additional TR per city that you have placed adjacent to it (you gain this TR during end game scoring).

Edit: Clarifications. I'd say 2-3 TR/VP is a decent estimate. Remember that building next to oceans gets you MC which will allow you to get even more TR. Also greenery tiles placed earlier in the game are worth more since they have earned you more MC.
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Naked Meeple
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They can essentially be negative points too if your opponents utilize your tree more than you do.
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Michael Lowrey
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Chigatterun wrote:
They can essentially be negative points too if your opponents utilize your tree more than you do.


I don't know if I'd generally say negative points in anything but a two-player game, but yes there’s certainly a possibility that your tree can also help someone else. It’s hard to place a generalized value on this, especially as the player count goes up, when a tree may help only a subset of players and even then it might not be a great play for them.

As a general framework, I’d say that greenery is worth 2 VPs if increasing the O2 level (generating a TR for you) and then adjust based upon the city situation.

What's MCr?

And thinking about this some more, it might be necessary to assume a “standard” game — certain number of player, certain expansions, and certain corps in or out (Ecoline and Tharsis is particular skew the analysis) as a baseline for your calculations, and then adjust for ”abnormal” (other) situations.
 
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Michael Condon
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MCr is 'megacredits.' Money.
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Jack Taylor
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By "Standard" I mean nothing outside of basic resource production & scoring. So yes, "standard" would assume no corporations or colonies messing with the numbers.

After mulling this question over, 2 seems like the right number. It's fair to assume that a Greenery tile will always produce 1 VP (from city placement), with the second being a fair assumption from TR or double city. 2 is also an average; as was pointed out a Greenery in the first half of the game is closer to 2.5 or even 3 VP thanks to the near guaranteed TR & opportunity for double placement bonus.

MCr is Mars Credits, cash. I say 18, based on the fact that each Plants resource is worth between 2 & 3 MCr (depending on source, taking at minimum is 16 MCr). Add in the Ocean placement bonus or the occasionally more valuable source of Plants and I get to a nice average of 18. 19 or 20 are also possibilities, though I wanted to ere on the conservative side of things.

@ Noog: Greeneries can never be negative VP. It doesn't matter if the Greenery owner is not earning the VP, the Greenery is still making that VP for somebody and thus is worth the sum of that VP.

EDIT: On review, I forgot to include that Greeneries are worth 1 VP natively at end of game. That would bump their typical scoring range to 3-4 instead of 2-3, and I would be comfortable valuing tiles at 3 VP each.
 
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JaxckLl wrote:
@ Noog: Greeneries can never be negative VP. It doesn't matter if the Greenery owner is not earning the VP, the Greenery is still making that VP for somebody and thus is worth the sum of that VP.


Let's say you're playing a 2 player game. If you place a greenery tile at the end of the game when O2 is maxed out, that tile will be worth 1 during end game scoring. If you do not place a city next to it and your opponent manages to place 2 cities adjacent to your greenery tile then that tile is essentially worth -1 TR. It's rare, but greenery tiles may benefit your opponents more than they benefit you.

JaxckLl wrote:
On review, I forgot to include that Greeneries are worth 1 VP natively at end of game. That would bump their typical scoring range to 3-4 instead of 2-3, and I would be comfortable valuing tiles at 3 VP each.


I agree with 3.
 
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Michael Lowrey
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roufus wrote:
MCr is 'megacredits.' Money.


Thanks — I was way, way, way overthinking this. I usually use MC for money and honestly was thinking that MCr was some fancy analytically ratio or something like that to measure the efficiency of playing various cards.
 
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wood
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I would say closer to the 2 mark.

The points for greeneries around cities should be kept with the city cost, which will be approx 20 to 23 a city (with cards that reduce or are cheaper than the 25 for standard project + ocean). Take an average of 4or5? greeneries to a city, thats approx 5 to 6 MCr per VP from cities.

As for the greenery, i would say 18 is about right, so 9 per VP. however this can offset the price of the cities somewhat as you place them.


all in all.. i would say 4 greeneries and 3 cities could count as a unit in a large hex shape (, giving 3vp per city and 2vp per green = 17 vp for roughly ((18*4)+(21*3))/17 = ~8MCr per VP,

With scale (extending this unit using 4 more greeneries + 2 cities each time) this can make it ~6.7MCr per VP

so averaging this out it looks like around 7MCr per VP for cities + greeneries.

These are only my rough ideas, please feel free to correct me where im wrong



 
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Luke Sheeley
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I usually aim to get 3 board points from my greenery. If I get an oxygen bump too, even better.

Rarely am I ever going to pay for a standard project greenery if it's only going to get me 2 board points.
 
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Michael Langford
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Greeneries are -4 to +7 points, typically +3.

-4: Next to 5 opponent cities (urbanized area and noctis city makes this possible)

+7: Next to 5 of your cities and placed before end of O2 and game end +1vp.

In realistic scenarios, they are worth 1 at game end themselves, 1 when placed due to O2 increase, and 1 at game end for being adjacent to one of your cities and not next to an opponent's.

The reliable power of greeneries comes in early and mid-game when they are also providing income from TR as well as the points above, as well as the placement point benefits. They are less certain how much they will end up being worth, but they are pretty good point engines.
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Lance Harrop
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Remember that once the atmosphere is maxed out greeneries stop adding TRs, thus lose value. However by that time you are placing tiles more strategically, hopefully next to your own cities. Not counting Noctis City and the Urban area you can place a greenery for five victory points for yourself. Conversely, if you are careful about the placement of your cities so that OTHER player's greeneries provide your cities support, you can spread out more on the board to locations likely to gain six greeneries around them.

Pacing is important, because if the game ends early then your cities may be rather bare. If the board fills up your cities will be surrounded.
 
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