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Subject: Playing time rss

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Mike Szarka
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When it is your turn to send a VASSAL move, the wait is excruciating. When it's my turn, well, I've been busy.
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Fiddling with this solo but it seems to me the campaign could take a very long time, even FTF among experienced players. Five times through the deck, even at one minute per card play (which seems optimistic) would be five hours.
 
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Gary Barr
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Not played using the solo bot but only one of my ftf games has went to 1945 and even then 3hrs max, most games seem to be between 1 & 2hrs.
Of course we could just be crap players :-)
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H Sparks
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I had my doubts about this game because the rulebook is a little lacking, but once you get the hang of it the game goes a lot faster. Especially when you have two experienced players. It seems a little overwhelming the first couple of games, but the moves you take become pretty obvious. I definitely seeing this game and future versions using this system releasing optional and addition cards to add to the flavor and to keep the game more interesting for experienced players. It's a very Euro like game, but the rules written up as a traditional wargame which I think make it hard to follow. I do wish that they included the legend of card symbols into the rules and maybe a flow chart of how possible actions flow.
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Mark Stevens
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There is a legend in the playbook. I just made a copy of it and have it by my side.
 
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H Sparks
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Baetis wrote:
There is a legend in the playbook. I just made a copy of it and have it by my side.


Is it me or am I not seeing Blitzkrieg, Amphibious Assault symbols etc. referenced 4.2 to their corresponding rules. Nor are they referenced in the rules about those capabilities. This is a traditional wargame rulebook but the game plays out like a Euro. A little basics of symbols and play through options (action flow - if I make this and it's success then I can do this. If I make it a Blitz than I can do this. Easy flow chart). 7 Wonders and similar card games would be a good reference. Especially if they're trying to bridge that gape between Euro and Wargame.
 
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Mark Stevens
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Page 3 of the playbook has a legend of the card symbols. It’s an easy way to learn them and know how to leverage the card types.

As to the action flow chart, this was covered in another post. It’s not actually not that simple to chart out, mainly because if the effect of “success or failure” combined with the options.

For example, if your first action is a “land attack” AND it’s successful, you’re eligible for a blitzkrieg. If your first success action is an event, you’re not entitled to a blitzkrieg.

With a big push, you can proceed after a failure. Not true elsewhere with the exception of the large scale operations like Barbarossa. I tried to flow chart this and it was super complex. And yet, oddly, I can remember the options.

The action sequence is arguably the most complicated part of the game and a bugger to explain. I’ll be really interested in how they do so in the rules rewrite.
 
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H Sparks
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Playbook... not the ‘rulebook’ that war gamers are used to reference. Should be under 4.2 and reference the types of attacks in the rules. I don’t intend to flame about this but why not reference that under the card descriptions like every other card game.
 
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Mark Stevens
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I hear you. I believe there are some clear opportunities to improve the rules - access, index, some errata, clarity.

That should get resolved with the rewrite. Until then, it is what it is. My hope is that people don’t miss this game as a result. It’s too good to pass over due to the shaky start. The game itself plays really well. With a little TLC, it will improve.

In the meantime, I just made a copy of the chart from the playbook, printed the action playaid from BGG, and have had a great time. I’ve actually found most rules to be well written but the layout isn’t always intuitive. Once you know where to look, the answers are typically there. An index will help in time.
 
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H Sparks
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Baetis wrote:
I hear you. I believe there are some clear opportunities to improve the rules - access, index, some errata, clarity.

That should get resolved with the rewrite. Until then, it is what it is. My hope is that people don’t miss this game as a result. It’s too good to pass over due to the shaky start. The game itself plays really well. With a little TLC, it will improve.

In the meantime, I just made a copy of the chart from the playbook, printed the action playaid from BGG, and have had a great time. I’ve actually found most rules to be well written but the layout isn’t always intuitive. Once you know where to look, the answers are typically there. An index will help in time.


I’m really enjoying the game discovering the strategy and it’s design, but the rules are in a traditional war game format and yet it plays like a Euro. Maybe take some examples from games like 7 Wonders, Dominion,
and what not... layout the symbols and a play through flow chart. If I succend at this then I can event action next or fortify next or go Blitz and keep using my events. A Flow chart of possible actions I think is the big thing to clarify and a reference to the rule.84
 
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Mike Szarka
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When it is your turn to send a VASSAL move, the wait is excruciating. When it's my turn, well, I've been busy.
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Well at least I got one opinion on my initial question before the thread inevitably devolved into a critique of the rulebook. I’d like to hear from others about playing time for the campaign game since I don’t see how you get much faster than one minute per card play on average.

FWIW I think the rulebook is fine. Of course, it helps that a buddy taught me to play before I read the rules in detail.
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Wendell
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
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mcszarka wrote:
Well at least I got one opinion on my initial question before the thread inevitably devolved into a critique of the rulebook. I’d like to hear from others about playing time for the campaign game since I don’t see how you get much faster than one minute per card play on average.

FWIW I think the rulebook is fine. Of course, it helps that a buddy taught me to play before I read the rules in detail.


I haven't played this FTF yet but really I think it can go quickly. I would be surprised if this came CLOSE to five hours - though of course if you run into people like my high school buddy John who has AP playing Candy Land, you never now...

As for rules - I think the organization of the book isn't great (the designer says so, too), but I think it would be an EASY game to actually TEACH somebody.
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